ASICS killing BTC ?

[Littleshop]

Not to mention BFL selling all the coins they have been mining with the asics they are selling as "NEW"

This is not hard to understand people.. 

This is where you are trolling.  BFL is not the ASIC mining culprit.  If they are mining it is on a small scale to test.  Avalon has obviously done some mining but I also think it is not large scale.  ASICMINER is the one that is doing the large scale mining.  If you compare the other two to them, BFL and Avalon are not on the radar.

[mootinator]

So, people who invested heavily in mining equipment with hopes of getting rich quick are causing a surplus of bitcoin supply, thus driving the price down and selling their newly minted bitcoin to people who want to hold on to/spend bitcoin at a reduced rate.

I don't see anyone losing here or anything being killed, except people who overvalued coins when they were hot, and weren't planning to hold them long-term are getting the shaft. That's the inherent risk in any market.

[danystatic]

I don't see anyone losing here or anything being killed, except people who overvalued coins when they were hot, and weren't planning to hold them long-term are getting the shaft. That's the inherent risk in any market.

Agree
------------------
Bitcoin is an idea worth more than its exchange value

[Impaler]

fatal as they will permanently remove the perception of BTC as a viable long term investment.

Do you think, in that case, LTC could be percieved as a viable long term investment?

No, or at least it will be massively reduced compared to the expectations that have been built around BTC.  If BTC ever ceases to be be a viable long term investment then it takes every other coin with it because it will be obvius the LTC would also have a successor some day.  But I wouldn't be surprised if it takes several such successions until people finally realize that the value in crypto-currency is the CODE not the COINS and we are going to see a succession of innovative coins that gradually supplant each other on technical merits, much as we treat every other piece of software ever made.

[Hippie Tech]

they're raping the original intentions behind it

So how do we take our Decentralized Revolution back ?

Want to slow these asics down ? SOLO MINE.

If just 25% of the sha-256 and scrypt hashpower was to suddenly switch to soloing BTC or one giant GPU only pool, what would that do to the asic hoarder's getwork/s rate ?

Like a swarm of locusts..

HT xD

Not much and that is the point of ASICs.  They so totally eclipse the power of GPU's that GPU's become irreverent.  This would be OK if ASICs were evenly distributed but they are not. 

Exactly ! And thus why we must act before the network explodes.

Gpus are irrevelant only if 100% of the asics were in the hands of the hoarders. Imagine a 80 Thash, 20k node P2P pool chomping away at the blocks....

HT xD
I'm drooling at the thought of thousands of p2p nodes.

[danystatic]

 

[z3r0]

It seems that ASIC is the evolution of mining, surely ASIC's will even become more powerful as time/difficulty increases. The important thing to remember is that Bitcoin promotes trade and there are a lot of great ways to make Bitcoin besides mining. There are lots of ways to get btc, if u dont like ASIC's then stop mining..

I give thanks for companies like ASICminer that actually delivered.. u snooze u looze..

Anyways bitcoin wont be monopolized like diamonds.. my opinion 

[Hippie Tech]

It seems that ASIC is the evolution of mining, surely ASIC's will even become more powerful as time/difficulty increases. The important thing to remember is that Bitcoin promotes trade and there are a lot of great ways to make Bitcoin besides mining. There are lots of ways to get btc, if u dont like ASIC's then stop mining..

I give thanks for companies like ASICminer that actually delivered.. u snooze u looze..

Anyways bitcoin wont be monopolized like diamonds.. my opinion 

Please elaborate a little as to where and how people can aquire BTC without having to deal with a centralized source.

The manner in which this technology was released, REAKS of collusion between the devs and companies involved. They sold Mr. Nakamoto's soul for a handful of 3M diff blocks.

Btw, the only thing Asicminer delivered, was black market pricing.

HT

[Pinwheel]

they're raping the original intentions behind it

So how do we take our Decentralized Revolution back ?

Want to slow these asics down ? SOLO MINE.

If just 25% of the sha-256 and scrypt hashpower was to suddenly switch to soloing BTC or one giant GPU only pool, what would that do to the asic hoarder's getwork/s rate ?

Like a swarm of locusts..

HT xD

Not much and that is the point of ASICs.  They so totally eclipse the power of GPU's that GPU's become irreverent.  This would be OK if ASICs were evenly distributed but they are not. 

Exactly ! And thus why we must act before the network explodes.

and what exactly you gonna do.

[Hippie Tech]

they're raping the original intentions behind it

So how do we take our Decentralized Revolution back ?

Want to slow these asics down ? SOLO MINE.

If just 25% of the sha-256 and scrypt hashpower was to suddenly switch to soloing BTC or one giant GPU only pool, what would that do to the asic hoarder's getwork/s rate ?

Like a swarm of locusts..

HT xD

Not much and that is the point of ASICs.  They so totally eclipse the power of GPU's that GPU's become irreverent.  This would be OK if ASICs were evenly distributed but they are not. 

Exactly ! And thus why we must act before the network explodes.

and what exactly you gonna do.

You wouldn't be asking that, had you read (instead of erasing) everything I said after ".. network explodes."

HT xD

[drwho88888]

ASICS are not killing Bitcoin, they are moving it into the future.

[Pinwheel]

they're raping the original intentions behind it

So how do we take our Decentralized Revolution back ?

Want to slow these asics down ? SOLO MINE.

If just 25% of the sha-256 and scrypt hashpower was to suddenly switch to soloing BTC or one giant GPU only pool, what would that do to the asic hoarder's getwork/s rate ?

Like a swarm of locusts..

HT xD

Not much and that is the point of ASICs.  They so totally eclipse the power of GPU's that GPU's become irreverent.  This would be OK if ASICs were evenly distributed but they are not. 

Exactly ! And thus why we must act before the network explodes.

and what exactly you gonna do.

You wouldn't be asking that, had you read (instead of erasing) everything I said after ".. network explodes."

HT xD

I cut it because I do not understand it. imagine what, thousands p2p nodes and what. 80ths of hashing power and what then. Please dont take it as personal offense, just trying to figure out, what can be done.

as I see situation with GPU mining, they are doing pretty well by mining LTC which in no way to be attacked by ASIC and mining LTC is much more profitable then BTC. 1.5 times more profitable most of the time.

[ecliptic]

I ran the numbers and they are depressing

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251347.0

Incoming hashrates:

ASICminer = 800 - 1000 TH
Avalon Chips = 300 TH
Avalon Batch 2 = 30 TH
KNCMiner=  200 - 400 TH
BFL = 100 - 1000 TH

Hash rate : 1430 TH/sec - 2730 TH/sec

Difficulty : 203396803 - 388302987


Marginal rate for plebs to buy hardware (KNC miner) : 17,500$ per TH/sec.

Price of BTC if set by plebs

Low diff: 49$
Max diff: 93$

Marginal rate for ASICminer to buy hardware : <10,000$ per TH/sec.  We'll be conservative and use 10,000$.  In reality it's probably closer to 5,000$, which means halve these numbers.

Price of BTC when set by ASICminer

Low diff: 11$
Max diff: 21$

[leopard2]

Asics are good for btc, they are easier to operate than GPU's so they provide a large mining base, and smooth transactions.

Asics could kill people's interest in BTC, though, since many people will be excluded from mining.

[Luckybit]

What a load of nonsense. Seems to be an amazing number of LTC supporters showing up this week talking nonsense. Part of the FUD campaign against BTC in preparation for MtGox's launch of LTC trading I've no doubt. LTC has been pump-and-dump since inception. Please take note everyone.

I disagree.  Most of his points are accurate and reflect the people that I know.  The price lowering though is coming more from the larger ASIC players not only controlling the supply of BTC's but also selling more of them then a typical small miner would do.  A small miner is more likely to spend  BTC in the Bitcoin economy while a larger player is most likely selling most coins right into the market. 

The real failure is that many small miners DID invest in ASIC hardware and they DO NOT HAVE IT.  If they had that hardware now, the price would probably be more stable and higher. 

The largest ASIC player is owned by thousands of shareholders each who receive a relatively small amount of Bitcoins.  If Joe Smith average AsicMiner shareholder gets 3 BTC in dividends and sells them how is that any different than Joe mining 3 BTC and selling them.

No one average is getting 3 BTC in dividends. That is an early adopter big shot not the average Joe Smith. You probably don't own a single share.

[Luckybit]

(4) Raw gh/s figures are irrelevant given that only a tiny number of firms have ASICS designs.  THESE COMPANIES NOW EFFECTIVELY CONTROL THE NETWORK

AMD is the only manufacturer with a GPU design that has 3,200 ALUs, in addition to having BIT_ALIGN_INT.   Therefore, ONE COMPANY (AMD) EFFECTIVELY CONTROLS THE LITECOIN NETWORK

[see what I did there?]

But that ONE company sells to any and all who want it. No shortages. No taking orders months before availability. AMD is an actual supplier.

ASICMiner has kept the vast majority of its output for itself, then spread around a bunch of USB's to even out the rest of the network at a hugely inflated prices.

Avalon appears to be very slow in fulfilling promises (i.e. orders)

Butterfly Labs... well, I got my Sept 2012 order yesterday, which explains that.

And all the other rumored ASIC producers are targetting those who are already wealthy from mining bitcoins already, ramping up production on multi-thousand dollar machines.

Face it, the reason that Bitcoin took off the way it has so far was because everyone could participate, profitably, with a minimal investment. Seeing the recent shifts towards Litecoin from Bitcoin (LTC is now 60% more profitable to mine than Bitcoin, and this is after a probable influx of GPU units that have fled BTC do to lack of profitability, that should be the biggest wake up call.

Seems everyone with either ASICMiner shares, Avalon miners or the small contingent who have started getting orders from Jalapeños are content so they're quick to defend the status quo and say "of course nothings wrong!", while the populace that created and drove BTC's value is slipping away.

And I say that as a new ASIC owner. I'm more than happy to sell, BTW, but not at the prices that get thrown around on here, as running it will be a money losing operation after month two. Until it sells, I'll be using the BTC's generated to:

A) buy ASICMiner pass-through shares
B) accumulate Litecoin and PPCoin.

And the dividends from those shares will be devoted to buying LTC's as well.

Greed and ASICs are killing Bitcoin. Litecoin at least attempts to restore the peer-to-peer aspect... my hope being that if Scrypt is as vulnerable to ASIC's as some nay-sayers say, that the developers can stay a step ahead of ASIC hardware if at all possible...

How do you complain about avarice when you have an ASIC, Asicminer shares, and a huge stash of LTC and PPC?

[Hippie Tech]

BTC

they're raping the original intentions behind it

So how do we take our Decentralized Revolution back ?

Want to slow these asics down ? SOLO MINE.

If just 25% of the sha-256 and scrypt hashpower was to suddenly switch to soloing BTC or one giant GPU only pool, what would that do to the asic hoarder's getwork/s rate ?

Like a swarm of locusts..

HT xD

Not much and that is the point of ASICs.  They so totally eclipse the power of GPU's that GPU's become irreverent.  This would be OK if ASICs were evenly distributed but they are not. 

Exactly ! And thus why we must act before the network explodes.

and what exactly you gonna do.

You wouldn't be asking that, had you read (instead of erasing) everything I said after ".. network explodes."

HT xD

I cut it because I do not understand it. imagine what, thousands p2p nodes and what. 80ths of hashing power and what then. Please dont take it as personal offense, just trying to figure out, what can be done.

as I see situation with GPU mining, they are doing pretty well by mining LTC which in no way to be attacked by ASIC and mining LTC is much more profitable then BTC. 1.5 times more profitable most of the time.

No offence taken lol.. I thought the deleted part was easy to understand.

Who knows what will happen. That depends on how many are willing to pile on, and how low the gpu : node ratio will affect Bitcoind.  1:1 is ideal and means that we are not required to divert all of our hashpower for this to have a significant effect.

Go ahead.. keep mining as you were. All I'm asking for is, a minimum of, 1 piece of mining hardware and 1 Bitciond node per person.

HT xD

p.s. Scrypt is asic proof.. for now...

[leopard2]

some people here need more sleep, apparently

why makes monopolization of mining power, BTC less peer-to-peer? Gold is perfectly peer-to-peer even though most people don't wash it themselves...

Who mines and with what is irrelevant, as long as no entity is over 51%.

The peer-to-peer part, in case you have forgotten, is not in the mining but in the usage.

And again it is very well possible that ASIC technology results in a larger number of households mining. Asics are much smaller, cooler and easier to run than GPU miners.

[Trongersoll]

and over time ASIC hash rates will go up and the cost for them will go down. I'm sure if you look through the ancient posts you'll find the same complaints and statements from people who couldn't wrap their minds around big expensive GPUs.

[Hippie Tech]

and over time ASIC hash rates will go up and the cost for them will go down. I'm sure if you look through the ancient posts you'll find the same complaints and statements from people who couldn't wrap their minds around big expensive GPUs.

Asic's shouldn't be compared to what the GPUs did to BTC because of it's pricing, availability and the massive jump in hashpower they bring.

I'm getting tired of this..  "everything is ok now... see everyone can buy them... " garbage !

@leopard2 Those large numbers of households will never see a return on their investment, in Bitcoins. Notice I did not mention f i a t. (pardon my swearing)

The story that this will bring stability to the network is BS, and will only help to fatten the hoarders. 1BTC .. F that !

HT xD