Bitcoin plus - is it owned by a member of this forum? - RANT ALERT!

[ItsASpork]

It's not a scam, because the site owner isn't getting the BTC, it's going to the person/pool who mines the next block.

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[Eri]

It's not a scam, because the site owner isn't getting the BTC, it's going to the person/pool who mines the next block.

the btc is in *a* account that the website owner has control of, this is how they are able to give btc out, if they were not in control of it they would have no way of giving the btc out at all. their website keeps track of how much btc is owed and to who. so if a account goes inactive for 6 months they can just take the BTC because the person that 'owns' it isn't likely to come back for it. and if they do, they have plenty of other BTC sitting there that they can give them.

[-Tom-]

I think it's a scam because BCP doesn't inform about their terms and conditions of business. In addition BCP graps a fee of 0.01 BTC for transfering although Bitcoin changed it to 0.0005 BTC.

[ItsASpork]

It's not a scam, because the site owner isn't getting the BTC, it's going to the person/pool who mines the next block.

the btc is in *a* account that the website owner has control of, this is how they are able to give btc out, if they were not in control of it they would have no way of giving the btc out at all. their website keeps track of how much btc is owed and to who. so if a account goes inactive for 6 months they can just take the BTC because the person that 'owns' it isn't likely to come back for it. and if they do, they have plenty of other BTC sitting there that they can give them.

Sorry, I should have said the BTC paid as the transaction fee isn't kept by the site owner. I highly doubt he's taking the .01 and only paying .0005

[Eri]

regardless the only place he mentions fees is in the transaction page, he lists the minimum as .01. in reality the minimum is .02. read the threads for specific details. he strings you along to get you to keep mining and apparently takes a 19% fee? without ever showing anything being deducted from you 'income' ie, he deducts it before he shows you what you have made so you don't even know hes doing it. can we really not get a stickied thread of blacklisted sites?

[timsmith]

Sorry but this is getting pathetic. Boo hoo you can't withdraw a fractional amount you mined on your crappy CPU. Either mine more until you have enough to withdraw a sensible amount, buy a GPU and a proper setup, or stop whining.

You paid nothing for the BCP service except for a handful of CPU cycles. Anybody would think you had paid the site thousands of dollars the amount of noise being made. Frankly, the owner of this site would be perfectly entitled to charge you even more, including joining fees, considering he's done all the work and you are getting the benefit.

It annoys me when people hide behind an ivory tower of "I just want Bitcoin to be a success" when what they actually mean is "I want to jump on the bandwaggon". If you hate BCP so much, write your own Java applet miner and put it on your own site. If you can't write the applet or host the site, then you aren't really in a position to criticise others who have done so.

[KMBTC11]

I think it's a scam because BCP doesn't inform about their terms and conditions of business. In addition BCP graps a fee of 0.01 BTC for transfering although Bitcoin changed it to 0.0005 BTC.

Non-disclosure of all fees (including x-fer), non-disclosure of minimum x-fer amounts, etc...  That's what they do.  You buy in and get trapped because you want to minimize your fees or you forfeit your coins and move on.  I suspect they like lots of unsuspecting miners trying out the site then leaving their meager coins behind as they leave for more lucrative mining opportunities.  Their model seems to reinforce my suspicions.

If they fully disclosed ALL of their fees and payout rates how many new users would join?

[BitCoinBarter]

Sorry but this is getting pathetic. Boo hoo you can't withdraw a fractional amount you mined on your crappy CPU. Either mine more until you have enough to withdraw a sensible amount, buy a GPU and a proper setup, or stop whining.

I think you are missing the point. BCP is scamming people. It is still happening. The amount scammed is so small (which what makes it a great scam) that when people bring it up, some other people tell them that they or boo hooing or they are a fool.

You paid nothing for the BCP service except for a handful of CPU cycles.

Again, missing the point. Everyone who got scammed (and the people who are being scammed now, they don't know it yet), paid (or for the people now being scammed, are paying now). You expect to get for the things you pay for.

Anybody would think you had paid the site thousands of dollars [...]

Again, missing the point...

Frankly, the owner of this site would be perfectly entitled to charge you even more, including joining fees [...]

I agree (to a point). BCP could charged anything they like as long as they let people know what the charge is. Not only is BCP is not doing that. They change their policy of how they do things (also without telling anyone). This does not seem like a scam to you?

considering he's done all the work and you are getting the benefit.

I give you that BCP has done work on setting up the site. However, I would not say that BCP did all the work.
Correct me if I am wrong. For the site to work, others will have to do the work (mining for BTC). For the people who got scammed (and are being scammed now), the benefit is going all to BCP. Please read this thread from the start for the details.

It annoys me when people hide behind an ivory tower of "I just want Bitcoin to be a success" when what they actually mean is "I want to jump on the bandwaggon".

I am unsure how this relates. About this, I write the following:
If you are not the creator (the one who is called), "Satoshi Nakamoto", then you have done a "jump on the bandwaggon". I think that is what the creator wants people to do.

If you hate BCP so much, write your own Java applet miner and put it on your own site. If you can't write the applet or host the site, then you aren't really in a position to criticise others who have done so.

For me, I don't hate BCP. BCP is a thing. It is a tool. It makes no sense to hate a thing.
It someone kills someone you love with a gun. Would you hate the gun?
So forgive me if that was not clear. From what I understand (could be wrong), (as a tool) BCP seems to be a great fit for people who have websites.

What I hate is that someone (or someones) is using BCP to scam people.

As for criticizing, I think what I am doing is correct. BCP has and is scamming people. They are doing wrong. Do you think that saying nothing about this will make them stop?

Why am I writing this (it is not making BCP change and start doing right)? I am doing it for three reasons.

1. To inform people of that scam that BCP is doing. Since I believe that you (could be wrong) don't think that BCP is scamming people (or that it is okay for them to scam people), I have a bit more work to do.

2. I hope people will let others know how BCP truly works.

3. I would like people to boycott BCP until they start doing right. I remember that boycotts could work. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks for an example of a successful (but long) boycott.

[timsmith]

We'll just have to agree to differ. You are welcome to think is a "scam" should you wish. Might I suggest that you stop using it immediately. That way, my own share from mining using it will increase, so we both win (I get more BTC, you get to "stop being scammed")

I've already said that I think that it would be beneficial to display a message "warning" newbies who intend to mine ridiculously small amounts that there is no point. But that is not because I think it is a scam. If anything, its the single-crap-PC users who are the scammers, as they are signing up with an implication that they are going to contribute cycles to the pool when in reality that are contributing so little to make it pointless, and then hitting the site with thousands and thousands of tiny withdrawls, each requiring a transaction fee (whether that be 0.01 or 0.0005 or whatever).

Think of it this way: when BCP first started, I could see that it was a quick and dirty way of getting mining without installing software. As it was intended for. So I immediately set top-end CPU boxes going on it, and made myself 0.20BTC. Not a huge amount to be sure, but a start. Then thousands and thousands of silly little 50khash "contributors" signed up, and the pool was diluted massively trying to share out amongst all these miners. So the amount I was earning with each solve reduced massively. On top, or so the site owner explains (quite clearly) when you try to withdraw a ridiculously small amount, you get charged a 0.01 transaction fee for each withdrawl. This is not the owner collecting these in a pot. This is an in-built feature of the network to prevent exactly what all these silly little users are doing: flooding the block chain with thousands of silly tiny transactions like a DDoS. It seems very sensible to me. In fact, the owner originally paid these transaction fees FOR YOU! But that was on the assumption that you were going to be doing sensible mining. When that proved that you couldn't be trusted to do that, that offer was [rightly] withdrawn.

I've stopped using BCP now, not because it is a scam, but because all of the people like those complaining on this thread have turned it into a farce. What started out as a good way to mine without installing software has turned into a flood of one-hit-wonder miners looking for make thousands of dollars for 15 minute's mining. Once the number of users decreases, and the pool shares go back to a sensible amount, I'll likely return to it.

And for those who are saying that this is terrible and wrong and immoral and must be stopped ("Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!") ... I assume you are all declaring and paying taxes on your 'profits' from Bitcoin, right?...

[Eri]

Sorry but this is getting pathetic. Boo hoo you can't withdraw a fractional amount you mined on your crappy CPU. Either mine more until you have enough to withdraw a sensible amount, buy a GPU and a proper setup, or stop whining.

You paid nothing for the BCP service except for a handful of CPU cycles. Anybody would think you had paid the site thousands of dollars the amount of noise being made. Frankly, the owner of this site would be perfectly entitled to charge you even more, including joining fees, considering he's done all the work and you are getting the benefit.

It annoys me when people hide behind an ivory tower of "I just want Bitcoin to be a success" when what they actually mean is "I want to jump on the bandwaggon". If you hate BCP so much, write your own Java applet miner and put it on your own site. If you can't write the applet or host the site, then you aren't really in a position to criticise others who have done so.

@troll: GTFO, get a brain and if your going to stand on a soapbox at least start your own thread before bitching about something completely off topic.

[Eri]

We'll just have to agree to differ. You are welcome to think is a "scam" should you wish. Might I suggest that you stop using it immediately. That way, my own share from mining using it will increase, so we both win (I get more BTC, you get to "stop being scammed")

I've already said that I think that it would be beneficial to display a message "warning" newbies who intend to mine ridiculously small amounts that there is no point. But that is not because I think it is a scam. If anything, its the single-crap-PC users who are the scammers, as they are signing up with an implication that they are going to contribute cycles to the pool when in reality that are contributing so little to make it pointless, and then hitting the site with thousands and thousands of tiny withdrawls, each requiring a transaction fee (whether that be 0.01 or 0.0005 or whatever).

Think of it this way: when BCP first started, I could see that it was a quick and dirty way of getting mining without installing software. As it was intended for. So I immediately set top-end CPU boxes going on it, and made myself 0.20BTC. Not a huge amount to be sure, but a start. Then thousands and thousands of silly little 50khash "contributors" signed up, and the pool was diluted massively trying to share out amongst all these miners. So the amount I was earning with each solve reduced massively. On top, or so the site owner explains (quite clearly) when you try to withdraw a ridiculously small amount, you get charged a 0.01 transaction fee for each withdrawl. This is not the owner collecting these in a pot. This is an in-built feature of the network to prevent exactly what all these silly little users are doing: flooding the block chain with thousands of silly tiny transactions like a DDoS. It seems very sensible to me. In fact, the owner originally paid these transaction fees FOR YOU! But that was on the assumption that you were going to be doing sensible mining. When that proved that you couldn't be trusted to do that, that offer was [rightly] withdrawn.

I've stopped using BCP now, not because it is a scam, but because all of the people like those complaining on this thread have turned it into a farce. What started out as a good way to mine without installing software has turned into a flood of one-hit-wonder miners looking for make thousands of dollars for 15 minute's mining. Once the number of users decreases, and the pool shares go back to a sensible amount, I'll likely return to it.

And for those who are saying that this is terrible and wrong and immoral and must be stopped ("Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!") ... I assume you are all declaring and paying taxes on your 'profits' from Bitcoin, right?...

haha.. just lost everything i wrote so this will have to do, maybe if i feel like it later ill tear apart all the crap you wrote line by line like i was doing. but for for now ill hit the highlights and if anyone wants to bother they can figure out the references on their own.

we stopped using his site awhile ago and unlike you we just just want people to know its a scam and stop using it rather then to stop using it so you can make more money with your CPU mining RIGS which are likely office PCs your using illegally since i would hope nobody would be dumb enough to invest in cpu mining over GPU mining. which in case you havn't herd is incredibly inefficient and a stupid way to try to make money. heck even if you made them before gpu mining was herd of you would still be better off running some other app that is more efficient(like ufasoft). on the other hand we just wanted a way to get some btc without having to go out and upgrade or install some software that may mess up our PC.

since you still don't understand how mining works, ill break i down for you. out of all the cpu miners on that website in order for money to be generated blocks must be found. this is the key part, so pay attention. mining works by generating random hash's so at any given time any one of those miners is just as likely to solve the block as any other. so while your bitching like a little girl that they are getting some of your btc it is entirely likely, in fact far more so that those individual cpu miners with more hashing power combined then your cpu mining rig are in fact the ones generating the blocks, not you. Everyone using that site has the exact same chance. fact of the matter is, you are just another cog in the machine, and alone your cpu rig is likely just as worthless as any lone cpu miner. me included hence why i joined a pool! which btw, you would also benefit from.

as far as "hitting the site with thousands and thousands of tiny withdrawls" that was before me, and i cant help it if the site owner didnt realize he needed to take into account transaction fees.

and since you apparently didn't read the thread, or visit the site in awhile the minimum is not "on top" as you say, its in the transaction page. and its not .01 like he says, its .02, (regardless of the fact that in reality transaction fees are currently .0005)

you know *nothing* about networking, a few low btc transactions from one site is not going to ddos the system. we just want one transaction one time to get what is ours, using a fee the current devs think is appropriat. not that a few no fee transactions would hurt anything.

"on the assumption that you were going to be doing sensible mining." vary cute. sensible.. says the person with a cpu mining rig hes using on a website that is almost taking 20% (new fact!) instead of using a mining app that is more efficient and doesn't charge 20%

"What started out as a good way to mine without installing software has turned into a flood of one-hit-wonder miners looking for make thousands of dollars for 15 minute's mining. " ill add the same comment as somewhere above.

and who is freaking out? its just a way for him to get people to use his site for awhile, giving him almost 20%(without their knowledge), then upon realising they wont get to .02 for a vary long time eventually realise they can install ufasoft's miner and make that much in about 1/5th of the time, leaving him the rest of the money they never withdrew... so yeah.. not scam, but what is it?

PS, borrow the other trolls soapbox.

[ItsASpork]

If only I could figure out how to turn the butthurt in this thread into hashing power, then I could be stinking rich...