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Author Topic: Is PrimeDice really (provably)fair?  (Read 32044 times)
escrow.ms
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August 29, 2013, 04:52:57 AM
Last edit: August 29, 2013, 05:34:07 AM by escrow.ms
 #101

Facts: You played. You lost. You were shown how it was fair, and you still claim it is not, despite being shown by several people who are not the site owner.

It becomes a he said she said. Abuse of trust system is abuse. You have a neg rep from me as well, until you take down yours. Have a nice day.

Abuse of trust system. You are abusing trust system because stunna is your friend.
Do you seriously think your 3 will give me neg trust ratings and i will remove my rating on stunna profile.
Oh and it was shown by 3-4 dick riders and a owner of other dice site.

Well I won't take down my rep on stunna's profile after all this shit. Do whatever you want. I don't give a fuck.

I have also left feedback on your profile now.
STOP calling it Fair when it's not 100% Fair, you guys are just filling your wallets, nothing else.

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escrow.ms
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August 29, 2013, 05:25:43 AM
 #102

And I just realized I'm on the default trust list. Well, that's a surprise.
Guess what, you are not on default trust list now.
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August 29, 2013, 05:35:42 AM
 #103

Facts: You played. You lost. You were shown how it was fair, and you still claim it is not, despite being shown by several people who are not the site owner.

It becomes a he said she said. Abuse of trust system is abuse. You have a neg rep from me as well, until you take down yours. Have a nice day.

Abuse of trust system. You are abusing trust system because stunna is your friend.
Do you seriously think your 3 will give me neg trust ratings and i will remove my rating on stunna profile.
Oh and it was shown by 3-4 dick riders and a owner of other dice site.

Well I won't take down my rep on stunna's profile after all this shit. Do whatever you want. I don't give a fuck.

I have also left feedback on your profile now.
STOP calling it Fair when it's not 100% Fair, you guys are just filling your wallets, nothing else.


I've left my feelings in a trust on your account. Probably not the best use of the trust feature but certainly not considered abuse compared to what you're doing. I'm also going to add you to ignore list most likely and end this petty argument.

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August 29, 2013, 05:43:24 AM
 #104

Facts: You played. You lost. You were shown how it was fair, and you still claim it is not, despite being shown by several people who are not the site owner.

It becomes a he said she said. Abuse of trust system is abuse. You have a neg rep from me as well, until you take down yours. Have a nice day.

Abuse of trust system. You are abusing trust system because stunna is your friend.
Do you seriously think your 3 will give me neg trust ratings and i will remove my rating on stunna profile.
Oh and it was shown by 3-4 dick riders and a owner of other dice site.

Well I won't take down my rep on stunna's profile after all this shit. Do whatever you want. I don't give a fuck.

I have also left feedback on your profile now.
STOP calling it Fair when it's not 100% Fair, you guys are just filling your wallets, nothing else.

I beg to disagree. It is 100% fair, and provably so, according to the same standards as most other gambling sites. I do this, not because Stunna is my friend (and he could also not have been my friend at all), but because you are wrong and can't admit to it.

I am merely using the trust system in exactly the same way you are using it.

Thank you for proving our point.

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August 29, 2013, 05:45:11 AM
 #105


I've left my feelings in a trust on your account. Probably not the best use of the trust feature but certainly not considered abuse compared to what you're doing. I'm also going to add you to ignore list most likely and end this petty argument.


Like i care about your rating, First you told your 3 friends to give me negative feedback and wanted me to remove my trust ratings on your profile. You are a pathetic guy.

Also I haven't done anything yet other than posting my opinion and If your site was fair, this thread and users complaints shouldn't be here.

Karma is a bitch and your site is down.
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August 29, 2013, 05:47:20 AM
 #106

I beg to disagree. It is 100% fair, and provably so, according to the same standards as most other gambling sites. I do this, not because Stunna is my friend (and he could also not have been my friend at all), but because you are wrong and can't admit to it.

I am merely using the trust system in exactly the same way you are using it.

Thank you for proving our point.

I am not wrong idiot, your opinion is completely biased and No i'm not using trust system to abuse peoples and force them to change their opinion. You have given me fake rating, I have given you back.
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August 29, 2013, 05:48:19 AM
 #107


I've left my feelings in a trust on your account. Probably not the best use of the trust feature but certainly not considered abuse compared to what you're doing. I'm also going to add you to ignore list most likely and end this petty argument.


Like i care about your rating, First you told your 3 friends to give me negative feedback and wanted me to remove my trust ratings on your profile. You are a pathetic guy.

Also I haven't done anything yet other than posting my opinion and If your site was fair, this thread and users complaints shouldn't be here.

Karma is a bitch and your site is down.

Once again all, please remove your untrusts of each other. This is pointless and stupid. No one has irrefutable evidence only strong opinions. I just hope the switch to the nonce verision will be quick as all accusations can then be fully dropped. I still hold my strong negative opinions about the site, but besides my rants here in this thread, I have kept it to myself and will continue to do. No one's trust should be involved.

Escrow.ms are you the same person who wrote an email complaining about 7 losses in a row and lost 2 BTC and now going to DDOS his site? It's sounding quite like it. Seriously guys, feel free to TELL others about your issues with the site or the people complaining about it, but when you are messing with peoples trusts and servers, that is crossing the line.

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August 29, 2013, 05:57:57 AM
 #108


I've left my feelings in a trust on your account. Probably not the best use of the trust feature but certainly not considered abuse compared to what you're doing. I'm also going to add you to ignore list most likely and end this petty argument.


Like i care about your rating, First you told your 3 friends to give me negative feedback and wanted me to remove my trust ratings on your profile. You are a pathetic guy.

Also I haven't done anything yet other than posting my opinion and If your site was fair, this thread and users complaints shouldn't be here.

Karma is a bitch and your site is down.

Once again all, please remove your untrusts of each other. This is pointless and stupid. No one has irrefutable evidence only strong opinions. I just hope the switch to the nonce verision will be quick as all accusations can then be fully dropped. I still hold my strong negative opinions about the site, but besides my rants here in this thread, I have kept it to myself and will continue to do. No one's trust should be involved.

Escrow.ms are you the same person who wrote an email complaining about 7 losses in a row and lost 2 BTC and now going to DDOS his site? It's sounding quite like it. Seriously guys, feel free to TELL others about your issues with the site or the people complaining about it, but when you are messing with peoples trusts and servers, that is crossing the line.

I have not given rating to anyone else except stunna, I have made a scam report and my rating is valid because i have lost my money on his site.

He asked me to remove it and told me he will give me small compensation If i will shut my mouth. I refused to do it.
He then told Zaih to give me Negative feedback, then vlees did,and now dabs and stunna.
Obviously I have given them neg rating back. I won't remove them until they remove.

Ps: I am not going to remove my feedback on stunna's profile and no I am not that guy.
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August 29, 2013, 06:06:27 AM
 #109

Escrow.ms, you're a joke. Messing with people's trust over 0.50 BTC. People who have handled 100x that. You have no 100% solid evidence as I don't either. Your actions are just wrong and unjustified. It truly is pathetic how you are handling this and I 100% believe PrimeDice is rigged too, but key word: BELIEVE. Neither of us have 100% irrefutable evidence. Thus your scam accusation thread and your trust ratings are honestly very irresponsible.

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August 29, 2013, 06:14:49 AM
 #110

Escrow.ms, you're a joke. Messing with people's trust over 0.50 BTC. People who have handled 100x that. You have no 100% solid evidence as I don't either. Your actions are just wrong and unjustified. It truly is pathetic how you are handling this and I 100% believe PrimeDice is rigged too, but key word: BELIEVE. Neither of us have 100% irrefutable evidence. Thus your scam accusation thread and your trust ratings are honestly very irresponsible.

I am not messing with people's trust and my rating is not visible to anyone else until they click on it. I have lost money, felt like scammed by his site and given him proper ratings because he is owner. That's it.
I don't give a fuck if they have handled 100 time or 1000 times of that money. It's not about money it's about being fair. His site isn't the first where I have lost money.

Now if other people will come and give me negative feedback when they are not involved, then I won't stay quiet.
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August 29, 2013, 06:17:57 AM
 #111

No one told me to do anything. I did what I did independently. I have simply looked only at the facts. No bias. No opinions. No belief or feeling. Just facts. I have never called anyone names, and I have never cussed or insulted anyone.

As for removing anything, you first.

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August 29, 2013, 06:21:42 AM
 #112

No one told me to do anything. I did what I did independently. I have simply looked only at the facts. No bias. No opinions. No belief or feeling. Just facts. I have never called anyone names, and I have never cussed or insulted anyone.

As for removing anything, you first.

Me first? Aren't you the one who have given me Negative feedback first?

@ Stunna


Are you retard? They have given me ratings first and you are telling me that I am abusing trust system.
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August 29, 2013, 06:48:44 AM
 #113

Uh. You started this all. So yes, you first remove your first unfairly posted negative rating. It is not towards me. That is my condition. You first remove your negative ratings from all 4 other people you gave negative ratings to. Then I will remove mine.

Your choice.

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August 29, 2013, 06:55:40 AM
 #114

Uh. You started this all. So yes, you first remove your first unfairly posted negative rating. It is not towards me. That is my condition. You first remove your negative ratings from all 4 other people you gave negative ratings to. Then I will remove mine.

Your choice.

I am not going to remove it until they remove. I have not given them rating first.
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August 29, 2013, 08:18:36 AM
 #115

I just hope the switch to the nonce verision will be quick as all accusations can then be fully dropped

I visited the site about 24h ago and then it did have nonces.
Unfortunately this fixes nothing as the site still knows the next client seed (if not changed by the user himself): the old one with the last number replaced.

BEEP BEP
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September 08, 2013, 02:02:20 PM
 #116

I will refer to the excellent article written by TrevorXavier: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

And provide a quote from it I also believe to be true.

Quote 1 “Bet Discrimination Under the assumption that an investigator will not place high stakes to investigate cheating, the house can safely offer a fair game to those using play money or very low stakes. As the bet size increases, so does the probability of an exploit. A house can also analyze betting patterns (progressives) for ways to minimize its short term risk of ruin.”

PrimeDice i believe is fair for micro bets.

PrimeDice i believe is unfair and cheating on bets 0.5 btc and above.

All should read the post linked. It simply is a must for anyone involved in btc gambling.
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September 08, 2013, 03:26:40 PM
 #117

I'm sure nearly all the dice sites have an "Anti martingale" system, as for me my experience in Primedice has confirmed so.

For example, I started with 0.005BTC betting 0.00002BTC each time at 50/50 and doubling if I lost. Some times my nimber had to be over 50.5 or below 49.5.

But its interesting that my longest win streak was of 3 after doing +1000Bets and the longest loose streak was 10+(lost all).

These things let you know something is not fair in this game, after that no more "dice" for me. As I don't think is truly 50% win.

Just my 2cents
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September 08, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
 #118

Only known (not including funny shit based on "Script Knows What To Do Now" concepts, that works only when You can't change client seed) "anti martingale" system is limited bet. There's limit on PD - You can't win more than 10 BTC in single roll. So if according to Martini You have to bet 8 BTC on 49.5%, You're busted.

The best anti-martingale system is YOU and Your blind faith in Martingale. With bankroll 0.005 and inital bet 0.00002 You will be busted after 7 loses in row. Chances for 7 loses in row is 0.8376057438%, BUT when You roll 1000 times, it's damn 98.4%. Deal with it.

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September 09, 2013, 03:19:53 AM
 #119

That article, also says this "At no time, does this post accuse any casino of cheating."

And the final paragraph:
Quote
The analysis presented here examined a specific implementation of a browser-based "Provably Fair" system. Other implementations of this concept will vary from site to site, and may or may not exhibit similar vulnerabilities. Non-browser based implementations of Provably Fair (such as SatoshiDice) do not exhibit these weaknesses and are not the focus of this analysis.

Of which I can say, that if you as the player, check the numbers and seeds before you click on "Roll" or "Bet" or "Deal", you will have the same provably fair system as the non-browser based implementations.

Quote
That said, now that the analysis has been released, I would agree that if your casino carried out any attacks, the damage to your reputation would be extreme.

Then the author continues to comment further:

Quote
On most browsers, you are able to examine network data passing between the client and server, so it is possible to see the partials, but detecting them might be another matter (more on that when I grab a free tutorial).

Yes, I agree, it is definitely possible to implement a provably fair game in a browser.

Quote
As long as one scrupulous person can run a few tests and definitively prove that the site is cheating, then the entire casino becomes invalid and all customers will leave.

If you can set the client seed, AFTER you have recorded and seen the server seeds, and verify that it was not suggested or changed at any point while you are playing, what can get more fair than that?

It is not fair to accuse any site of being unfair when you have no proof at all, especially when they provide you all the tools you need to verify the fairness of the game. Gut feel and beliefs, (this is not religion) are irrelevant when you are faced with math. 2 + 2 = 4. That can never change.

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September 09, 2013, 06:32:56 AM
 #120

Primedice still has not changed to nonce betting. Been quite a bit of time already since the change was claimed "coming". Doing similar to what bit777 did, claims change was coming for provably fair but instead just increased marketing and left his games NOT provably fair at all.

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