Avalon 8 official specs released

[notabeliever]

what I want to know is will the new Avalon play nicely with P2P pools meaning have you made any adjustments to mine better with P2p

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[Flying Hellfish]

Pallet pricing for the 821 is on their website now. But everything is sold out.....already or just preparing?

I would assume it's preping.  Everything official to date has been "no pricing yet, don't ask, when we have it we will release to everyone"

[mikez_nj]

Anything's possible, I guess, but an ROI of 9mo-1yr isn't competitive or palatable to a lot of people.

It only has to be palatable to 1 in 10 my friend (if you believe their press release)!  Think like a company and not a miner and it becomes easier to understand.

Besides a 1 year +ROI has been the norm MANY times before this and IS competitive and WILL be palatable to at least 1 in 10 people with current coin prices!

I understand that, but they also have to be competitive with other mining companies. If they're not, it won't even be palatable to 1 in 10. No other mining company has a 1 year ROI right now, and right now is what matters.

If the pallet pricing is to be believed, 60@ $162,525.00 = 2708.75 per miner (with PSU) to distributors. The margins have been fairly slim, so I'm still guessing the 821 will be under 3k. We shall soon see.

Edit: That's the price WITH the PSUs.

[QuintLeo]

Anything's possible, I guess, but an ROI of 9mo-1yr isn't competitive or palatable to a lot of people.

 They need to get used to it, we're not going to see new miner generations pretty much every year OR OFTEN LESS any more, as SHA256 miners have caught up to semiconductor state-of-the-art as of the current models.

 Do note that the S9 has already been out for a year and change, which ALREADY makes it Bitmain's longest-lasting "current model" - and it's looking likely to be that for another year or even 2.

 Then the NEXT generation is likely to last more like 4-5 years, since the S9 was designed almost 2 years after the 14/16nm node started seeing production.


 For that matter, if you were an early adopter on the S5 or SP20, you had something like a year and a half, perhaps 2 years with LOW electric power rates, to be able to achieve ROI - and the S7 is still profitable NOW and has been consistantly profitable it's entire existance so far if you had low power rates.

 Better yet - Innosilicon A2 is *3* years old, and they're been consistently profitable at anything under 5 cent power (and possibly 6) for their entire existence - but to be fair they've had a lot less competition 'till this year than has been the norm in SHA256.

[lossol]

Most people don't have cheap power at .05/kwh. So it's going to come down to $/TH for most people looking into getting miners now who don't already have a bunch of them.

[lossol]

Wow, at $3-4K per miner, that's going to take over a year ROI, especially with the difficulty going up each month. And if BTC keeps falling, it's going to take even longer! People been snatching up miners on ebay for over $4K because BTC was skyrocketing to $20K! Well, it's dropped a lot since it hit the high. Just last month the S9 was under $1500 & the A741 was under $1K and BTC was over $8K; so people buying new miners then could still make over 200% ROI in a year even after deducting power costs. Now that's all changed with the miners doubling and tripling in price and BTC falling. So people are going to reassess whether it's still profitable to buy a miner or not. Though you'll still get that 1 in 10 who'll buy at the high end and at any price! 

That's why the companies selling the picks and shovels for digital gold are making out like bandits; just as the people who sold them to the miners back then in the 1850s gold rush.

[CM Australia]

Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.

I am pretty sure this was exactly the impression they wanted to give by selling out fast for whatever reason 

I don't know, I haven't been in the mining game as long as some of you, but they didn't seem to sell out fast to me. 

A few months ago, when they released a new batch of any miner, their website ground to a halt, and you could sit there refreshing for 1-2 hours, not actually add anything to your cart, and it would be sold out by the time the website was actually responding. The past few batches sit around for hours and hours (and sometimes days/weeks).

And while that price point might be acceptable, the 821 isn't the S9. The S9 has it beat on Watt/TH (by a little) and Price/TH (by a LOT) if they price it the same as the S9... for a machine with 20% less output. Honestly, if the 821 is over $2200, I would be shocked. 

Pallet price of 60 units A821 = $150,525 divided by 60 = $2,508.75 a unit (without PSU).
Add PSU for around $200 ($2,708.75) and re-seller mark up if buying less than 60 units and were around the $3k mark.

[Didley1JT]

They're not stupid. I'm pretty sure they added the pallet prices knowing we would all start talking about and they could then gauge the market's response.

Most of you have just shot us all in our collective d***s by saying $3000 is totally worth it. 

[Toughit]

When does a ROI of more than a year ever make sense?

Especially on something as risky as a product that can swing a price range of 40% in 1 day?

This unit needs to be sub $2000

[QuintLeo]

Wow, at $3-4K per miner, that's going to take over a year ROI, especially with the difficulty going up each month. And if BTC keeps falling, it's going to take even longer! People been snatching up miners on ebay for over $4K because BTC was skyrocketing to $20K! Well, it's dropped a lot since it hit the high. Just last month the S9 was under $1500 & the A741 was under $1K and BTC was over $8K; so people buying new miners then could still make over 200% ROI in a year even after deducting power costs. Now that's all changed with the miners doubling and tripling in price and BTC falling. So people are going to reassess whether it's still profitable to buy a miner or not. Though you'll still get that 1 in 10 who'll buy at the high end and at any price! 

That's why the companies selling the picks and shovels for digital gold are making out like bandits; just as the people who sold them to the miners back then in the 1850s gold rush.

 eBay pricing on miners doesn't count - folks ALWAYS try to gouge there, and far too often get away with it due to folks with more money than sense.


 Most miners are BADLY spoiled, an ROI of less than a year is AMAZINGLY FANTASTICALLY GOOD when you compare it to most things you can invest your money into.
 Tradeoff is that it IS higher risk than most of those other investments.


 If Bitcoin stays above $12000, an 821/841 or S9 should easily achieve ROI in a year at the $3000 level (presuming the S9 don't lose a hashboard or die) if you have a SANE electric price to mine with.

 Folks paying over 5c/kwh are killing THEIR OWN chance at ROI if they insist on mining Bitcoin itself through excessive overhead cost.

[leowonderful]

When does a ROI of more than a year ever make sense?

Especially on something as risky as a product that can swing a price range of 40% in 1 day?

This unit needs to be sub $2000

It doesn't. Avalon is simply following in the tracks of Bitmain and trying to get as much money as possible from these units ATM. When ROI gets above that point I simply skip the product. Anything less than a year is decent for me, anything over I don't consider.

[Logan4el]

So much hate about Bitmain, but at the of the day... Bitmain was holding prices low in the asic market until these days with very reasonable ROI.

[leowonderful]

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.

We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

[dlezama]

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.

We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course ). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.

[leowonderful]

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.

We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course ). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.

Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.

[dlezama]

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.

We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course ). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.

Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.

They probably wont. Last bitmain S9 batch went pretty quickly for $2750. They will sell just fine at 3k, probably even at 4k, so why in hell would they sell it for less? Would you do that?

[leowonderful]

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.

We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course ). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.

Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.

They probably wont. Last bitmain S9 batch went pretty quickly for $2750. They will sell just fine at 3k, probably even at 4k, so why in hell would they sell it for less? Would you do that?

It'd be nice if they did. Not saying that they will do anything of the sort, but here's to hoping that they might. They've always been priced above Bitmain, so it'll be a small miracle if prices go even near that of Bitmain's.

[CryptoHodler30]

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.

We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course ). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.

Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.

They probably wont. Last bitmain S9 batch went pretty quickly for $2750. They will sell just fine at 3k, probably even at 4k, so why in hell would they sell it for less? Would you do that?

It'd be nice if they did. Not saying that they will do anything of the sort, but here's to hoping that they might. They've always been priced above Bitmain, so it'll be a small miracle if prices go even near that of Bitmain's.

i think Avalon can get away with a mark up over Bitmain due to quality, but not actually over the price of an s9 since it doesnt have the same TH/s. at 202 a th/s an avalon would be 2222, plus a slight mark up since they wont get into a price war with bitmain (ill be honest i wish they would b/c we know that bitmain can probably still turn a profit all the way down to 800 or so)

[coldbitcoins]

Might as well cloud mine with these miner prices.

[Tommyhoop]

I'm seeing on Canaan's site that a 60 pack is 165K which would be $2,750 each.