Avalon 8 official specs released

[tetradrachm]

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

 Not automatically true - some like the ATX power supplies because they intend to use them for other stuff once the ASIC miner dies - or in my case I would use my EXISTING G2-1300 or X-1250 supplies because I have a couple floating around not currently being USED for anything.

 8 PCI-E connectors on 1200 watts works out to 150 watts per connector - the EVGA "dual" cables should be ok as they apparently use 16AWG wiring to the first connector, then feed the second one with 18AWG, on the power and ground leads.
 There IS a 20 AWG wire in there, but that's a sense wire that doesn't carry significant power.



Given how many S9 units ALONE are already in use, plus the various other models from other companies AND some folks still running older units like the S7, there is no way a single Bitmain S9 batch is going to have a HUGE effect on difficulty - the last few batches have only been pushing it by around 10%, and the "20% jump" before that was partly folks bouncing around into and out of BCH not just the new S9 batch.

So basically only buy ATX power supplies if you are planning on eventually using them with something OTHER than another ASIC afterwards?

[Logan4el]

I have got different question. Lets say Canaan is selling a preorder batches to the distributors at 2600$ each 821 miner. Miners will be delivered in January. When January comes distributors receive miners. Bitmain decides to fcuk Canaan or simply profit from mining decrease. Bitmain decides to sell their S9 priced 1600$ each. Distributors will get stuck until Bitmain is sold out?

[Mursu]

I have got different question. Lets say Canaan is selling a preorder batches to the distributors at 2600$ each 821 miner. Miners will be delivered in January. When January comes distributors receive miners. Bitmain decides to fcuk Canaan or simply profit from mining decrease. Bitmain decides to sell their S9 priced 1600$ each. Distributors will get stuck until Bitmain is sold out?

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same. Bitmain has the financial power, if they choose to use it, to really make life miserable for their competitors pricing wise. We have seen this in many industries since trading has been invented. They most likely can put weaker companies out of business if they like.

[CM Australia]

I have got different question. Lets say Canaan is selling a preorder batches to the distributors at 2600$ each 821 miner. Miners will be delivered in January. When January comes distributors receive miners. Bitmain decides to fcuk Canaan or simply profit from mining decrease. Bitmain decides to sell their S9 priced 1600$ each. Distributors will get stuck until Bitmain is sold out?

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same. Bitmain has the financial power, if they choose to use it, to really make life miserable for their competitors pricing wise. We have seen this in many industries since trading has been invented. They most likely can put weaker companies out of business if they like.

Interesting thought.
I guess it depends on whether Bitmain would prefer to maximise profits by pricing just under or around Canaan's price or whether they want to make life miserable for Canaan and way under cut them when they release the 821.

With the shortage of supply of chips/miner's vs consumer demand my guess is that Bitmain will remain priced just under Canaan to realise the most profit.
I think this because if they under cut Canaan at $1600 or something like that they will sell out in a day and leave Canaan as the only option available anyway.
IE Bitmain would sacrifice much profit for a temporary f**k you to Canaan.

I think the low price would only work if Bitmain could keep up with consumer demand for a prolonged period of time.

Just my opinion of course.

[CM Australia]

I was just thinking of another option which would be a dirty move.
If Bitmain really wanted to mess with Canaan they could under cut them and instead of releasing 1000-2000 units as a batch they could drip feed releases of around 100 S9 daily while they wait for more chips and then repeat the process over and over again so everyone is constantly waiting and trying to score a cheap s9's instead of 821's. ha ha

[score1more]

aren't these two companies making money hand over fist already?  They've already "tested" the miners for 6-9 months, and now their new test batch has arrived and they shipped out the 741s.

I don't see how either company can lose in a market like this.  It's just who's going to have a bigger win.  Remember price elasticity in economics?

[IAmLoco]

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks

[QuintLeo]

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

 Not automatically true - some like the ATX power supplies because they intend to use them for other stuff once the ASIC miner dies - or in my case I would use my EXISTING G2-1300 or X-1250 supplies because I have a couple floating around not currently being USED for anything.

 8 PCI-E connectors on 1200 watts works out to 150 watts per connector - the EVGA "dual" cables should be ok as they apparently use 16AWG wiring to the first connector, then feed the second one with 18AWG, on the power and ground leads.
 There IS a 20 AWG wire in there, but that's a sense wire that doesn't carry significant power.

So basically only buy ATX power supplies if you are planning on eventually using them with something OTHER than another ASIC afterwards?

 For economic sense, yes.
 There actually is one other possible reason - most Server-type power supplies don't provide as much power capacity on 117VAC as on 234 VAC - if you don't have 234VAC available and can't have your placed modded to do so, the ATX option (especially on 2 smaller PS) gets a LOT closer on cost since you would then likely be competing 2 small ATX vs 2 small server supplies.

[ConnerM]

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

We have over 120 EVGA 1600 Titaniums in our farm. They run our S7's, S9s, and Avalon 741's. They run our big GPU rigs. We can run our gear at 120v, 208v, 220v, or 240v. We push them pretty hard. They have a 10 year warranty, though we have never had a unit fail. We have units that have been in operation 24/7/365 for over 3 years without a lick of problems. We have run multiple generations of gear on them. If the next gen gear have different power requirements, we should be able to resell them used for close to or even what we paid for them, so they act as a store of value vs. a real operational expense. Granted our farm is very small, but I always thought standardizing our power gear with high end ATX PSU's as an investment and it has worked out very well so far. We can use any PSU in our farm to run any gear, and they do it well. Easy. And they are rock solid. We tried a batch of Bitmain's APW3 a few months ago, 12 units, and 2 were DOA right out of the box. I thought they were junk. I don't know, take all this with a grain, your mileage may vary, but I feel really good with those ATX's powering our gear. It's been worry free so far.

[Crypto Rock]

I was just thinking of another option which would be a dirty move.
If Bitmain really wanted to mess with Canaan they could under cut them and instead of releasing 1000-2000 units as a batch they could drip feed releases of around 100 S9 daily while they wait for more chips and then repeat the process over and over again so everyone is constantly waiting and trying to score a cheap s9's instead of 821's. ha ha

This does not make sense for Bitmain from the operations point of view. Too much hassle, little gain.

[CM Australia]

I was just thinking of another option which would be a dirty move.
If Bitmain really wanted to mess with Canaan they could under cut them and instead of releasing 1000-2000 units as a batch they could drip feed releases of around 100 S9 daily while they wait for more chips and then repeat the process over and over again so everyone is constantly waiting and trying to score a cheap s9's instead of 821's. ha ha

This does not make sense for Bitmain from the operations point of view. Too much hassle, little gain.

Totally agree.
I was just working out a hypothetical way that Bitmain could hurt Canaan's release of the 821 in response to an earlier post.
Would be a totally silly to do this in reality.

[TracerX]

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks

It pulls air from the single fan.

[tetradrachm]

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

We have over 120 EVGA 1600 Titaniums in our farm. They run our S7's, S9s, and Avalon 741's. They run our big GPU rigs. We can run our gear at 120v, 208v, 220v, or 240v. We push them pretty hard. They have a 10 year warranty, though we have never had a unit fail. We have units that have been in operation 24/7/365 for over 3 years without a lick of problems. We have run multiple generations of gear on them. If the next gen gear have different power requirements, we should be able to resell them used for close to or even what we paid for them, so they act as a store of value vs. a real operational expense. Granted our farm is very small, but I always thought standardizing our power gear with high end ATX PSU's as an investment and it has worked out very well so far. We can use any PSU in our farm to run any gear, and they do it well. Easy. And they are rock solid. We tried a batch of Bitmain's APW3 a few months ago, 12 units, and 2 were DOA right out of the box. I thought they were junk. I don't know, take all this with a grain, your mileage may vary, but I feel really good with those ATX's powering our gear. It's been worry free so far.

Not to mention I can't find Antminer or Avalon PSUs, but I can find the ATXs or at least know when I can get them from reputable websites. If it takes another month to get a non ATX psu versus having an ATX within a week then the cost difference will pay itself off.

[Didley1JT]

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks

It pulls air from the single fan.

To clarify: it pulls air from the opposite side (across the boards). The air is exiting on the side with the fan.

[fanatic26]

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.


EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.

[tetradrachm]

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.


EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.

Are Avalon's PSUs any better than Bitmain's? Also where can I find a tutorial on how to set up the HP PSU for an ASIC?

[alh]

As for Bitmain -vs- Caanan pricing, I think the most recent sale of 741's on Blokforge to be instructive. They literally sold out in minutes. They had 100 units, and well over 1000 folks interested. They set a limit of 2 per order, and still disappointed a lot of folks.

With the current FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) attitude surrounding Bitcoin, there is plenty of money to go around, and neither Bitmain nor Caanan has any reason to engage in a price war. Both will sell all they can produce while BTC price holds up, and they are production constrained (probably by ASIC fab).

[fanatic26]

The manufacturers work together more than against each other. It is in their best interests to not fight since there is more money than production capacity and it will be that way for the foreseeable future.

[QuintLeo]

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.

EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.

 It would be a little more fair to compare to a pair of 850 watt PS at more like $300 on the ATX side - but the server power supplies still win the battle of economics *IF YOU ARE SURE YOU WILL BE MINING FOR SEVERAL YEARS*.
 Or even reasonably sure.

 On the other hand, when you already HAVE spare ATX power supplies, they win the economics battle as the have zero cost. 9-)

[tetradrachm]

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.

EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.

 It would be a little more fair to compare to a pair of 850 watt PS at more like $300 on the ATX side - but the server power supplies still win the battle of economics *IF YOU ARE SURE YOU WILL BE MINING FOR SEVERAL YEARS*.
 Or even reasonably sure.

 On the other hand, when you already HAVE spare ATX power supplies, they win the economics battle as the have zero cost. 9-)

So this is what I should use for the 821? Assuming I can even get my hands on one...

https://www.parallelminer.com/product/platinum-94-1500-watt-power-supply-kit-for-2-a4-dominator-litecoin-miners-ltc-litecoin-100-240v/