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PeaMine
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February 07, 2018, 07:48:27 PM |
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Just a heads up, I would highly recommend avoiding one of their official distributors, Minerwarez https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2277516.140They were offering Avalon 8 upgrades for more money, or a refund. Regardless of which options you took, no response has been given for quite some time now, and Canaan has yet to respond. |
Datacenter Technician and Electrician. If you have any questions feel free to ask me as I am generally bored looking at logs and happy to help during free time.
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According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in
Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it
will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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Sitarow
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
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February 07, 2018, 08:06:08 PM
Last edit: February 08, 2018, 04:16:23 PM by Sitarow |
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I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
Here is what it would look like if BTC/USD was at $15,000.00. From what I can see buying BTC at this low rate vs hardware purchase of this type makes business sense. Here is the document for reference.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharingI have both price adjusted target increase of 5% and true hardware adoption increase of at estimate rate of 10% per difficulty target.
Estimates if BTC/USD Trading at $8,500.00 USD https://i.imgur.com/CexYmwC.pngEstimates if BTC/USD Trading at $15,000.00 USD https://i.imgur.com/3Oa8rV5.png^ updated to reflect proper name and other purchase options, Update #2: Reflect Recent Difficulty Change. Update: Nothing in the this post shall constitute or be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or investment recommendations (i.e., recommendations as to whether or not to “buy”, “sell”, “hold”, or to enter or not to enter into any other transaction involving any specific interest or interests) This document is for awareness and at the users discretion for educational purposes. |
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Sitarow
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
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February 07, 2018, 08:26:48 PM |
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Considering that you may not have this hardware until sometime in march I have taken the yearly average of 10% network difficulty increase and applied it for when you are expected to start receiving the hardware. Here is an estimate of the network difficulty as of March 2018. Results for BTC/USD estimated trading price at $8500.00 USD
Estimated March 23 2018 Difficulty 3,811,165,475,251 Results for BTC/USD estimated trading price at $15000.00 USD
Estimated March 23 2018 Difficulty 3,811,165,475,251 |
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gurugarzah
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
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February 08, 2018, 01:31:17 AM |
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Just a heads up, I would highly recommend avoiding one of their official distributors, Minerwarez https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2277516.140They were offering Avalon 8 upgrades for more money, or a refund. Regardless of which options you took, no response has been given for quite some time now, and Canaan has yet to respond. I HIGHLY AGREE DO NOT BUY FROM MINERWAREZ!!! You might want to avoid anything from Canaan altogether! |
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Sandal_Hat
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February 10, 2018, 07:07:18 AM |
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I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in.... Price should go down to $1100-1200usd? Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
These people do not know wat they are doing.... |
Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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gurugarzah
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
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February 10, 2018, 06:21:20 PM |
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I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in.... Price should go down to $1100-1200usd? Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
These people do not know wat they are doing.... This is why I was livid when the 741’s went to $1400 and my order of 6 of them (at $795 each) never shipped. Because bitcoin price is volatile, and to just deem your 12 month old hardware 2x as expensive is BULLSHIT! Here’s the deal Canaan! When you say you base the price of your miners depending on bitcoins price you’re just lying If it doesn’t go down when the price of bitcoin falls. And when the price of bitcoin rises the difficulty rises with it so it’s harder to mine. So profit is less then too. For a company to be such opportunist like this is bullshit. I’m not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know. Unless your buying 7.3 terrahash for 2k. |
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QuintLeo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
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February 10, 2018, 09:47:52 PM |
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I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in.... Price should go down to $1100-1200usd? Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
These people do not know wat they are doing.... Do keep in mind that when those prices were SET Bitcoin was almost double what it is now. I DO agree Caanan needs to drop the prices to reflect current Bitcoin pricing - they've been WAY too slow to respond to the crash. |
I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind!
Like something I said? Donations gratefully accepted. LYLnTKvLefz9izJFUvEGQEZzSkz34b3N6U (Litecoin)
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Sandal_Hat
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February 11, 2018, 02:34:47 AM |
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I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in.... Price should go down to $1100-1200usd? Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
These people do not know wat they are doing.... This is why I was livid when the 741’s went to $1400 and my order of 6 of them (at $795 each) never shipped. Because bitcoin price is volatile, and to just deem your 12 month old hardware 2x as expensive is BULLSHIT! Here’s the deal Canaan! When you say you base the price of your miners depending on bitcoins price you’re just lying If it doesn’t go down when the price of bitcoin falls. And when the price of bitcoin rises the difficulty rises with it so it’s harder to mine. So profit is less then too. For a company to be such opportunist like this is bullshit. I’m not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know. Unless your buying 7.3 terrahash for 2k. Wat u mean by they never shipped? They just cancelled the order? I got a feeling they wont decrease price. They have buyer due sensationalized media news on how mining is so great. These new miners wont break even and will be feeling alot of pain... |
Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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gurugarzah
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
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February 11, 2018, 03:38:42 AM |
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I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in.... Price should go down to $1100-1200usd? Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
These people do not know wat they are doing.... This is why I was livid when the 741’s went to $1400 and my order of 6 of them (at $795 each) never shipped. Because bitcoin price is volatile, and to just deem your 12 month old hardware 2x as expensive is BULLSHIT! Here’s the deal Canaan! When you say you base the price of your miners depending on bitcoins price you’re just lying If it doesn’t go down when the price of bitcoin falls. And when the price of bitcoin rises the difficulty rises with it so it’s harder to mine. So profit is less then too. For a company to be such opportunist like this is bullshit. I’m not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know. Unless your buying 7.3 terrahash for 2k. Wat u mean by they never shipped? They just cancelled the order? I got a feeling they wont decrease price. They have buyer due sensationalized media news on how mining is so great. These new miners wont break even and will be feeling alot of pain... They never shipped, I ordered on October 2017. And they were supposed to ship December 5th. Minerwarez continued to promise the miners for several weeks after this. Then one day they decided not to ship them and backed out of their promise to ship them and then offered the 821s at zero discount and they wouldn’t ship until March. LOL!! Like bro, I’ve already received 2 shipments from bitmain since then. GFY! Asked for a refund, then called my credit card company and they said they “MinerWarez” were fraudulent. I won’t buy anything from Canaan EVER again. |
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Thetaj
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February 11, 2018, 06:35:55 AM |
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Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4116
Merit: 7858
'The right to privacy matters'
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February 12, 2018, 03:58:57 AM |
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Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.
Gpus bro plain and simple |
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Thetaj
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February 12, 2018, 10:15:15 AM |
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Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.
Gpus bro plain and simple Stop brainwashing me Phil! |
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Sandal_Hat
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February 12, 2018, 06:07:40 PM
Last edit: February 12, 2018, 09:08:09 PM by frodocooper |
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They never shipped, I ordered on October 2017. And they were supposed to ship December 5th. Minerwarez continued to promise the miners for several weeks after this. Then one day they decided not to ship them and backed out of their promise to ship them and then offered the 821s at zero discount and they wouldn’t ship until March. LOL!! Like bro, I’ve already received 2 shipments from bitmain since then. GFY! Asked for a refund, then called my credit card company and they said they “MinerWarez” were fraudulent. I won’t buy anything from Canaan EVER again.
Wow, thats very unexpected. And that is outright cheating.... U did get your money back right? What did canaan say about it. U did use an authorized canaan retailer right? Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.
This looks like it will be the case. In general, mining would be unprofitable for all if it goes this way. I wrote two topics on this recently. It seems that there will always be high difficulty increases because the average buyer does not take into account difficulty increases and other risks. News and media also push them into mining. If this difficulty increase keeps up, the winner wont be the home miners or the big miners, the winner will be the fellow who just buys bitcoin and holds it. Why? Because difficulty rise up so much that even with the cheapest electricity, u gonna make more just holding bitcoin. So, If bitcoin drops = miners will make huge losses. Bitcoin holders make some losses. If bitcoin price stagnates = miners dont make money because difficulty rise alot over time and higher cost miners switch off machines while lower cost miners make like 50-60 bucks per machine LOL. Machine will likely break before they break even. Bitcoin holders make nothing. If bitcoin price rise alot = miners make some money. Bitcoin holders make alot more money Asic manufacturers will still make money from selling ASICS but make nothing much or lose money from mining.
(Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove multiple nested quotes.) |
Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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gurugarzah
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
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February 12, 2018, 10:42:51 PM |
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They never shipped, I ordered on October 2017. And they were supposed to ship December 5th. Minerwarez continued to promise the miners for several weeks after this. Then one day they decided not to ship them and backed out of their promise to ship them and then offered the 821s at zero discount and they wouldn’t ship until March. LOL!! Like bro, I’ve already received 2 shipments from bitmain since then. GFY! Asked for a refund, then called my credit card company and they said they “MinerWarez” were fraudulent. I won’t buy anything from Canaan EVER again.
Wow, thats very unexpected. And that is outright cheating.... U did get your money back right? What did canaan say about it. U did use an authorized canaan retailer right? I was able to get my money back by calling my credit card company. The purchase was made at MinerWarez who still touts being an authorized reseller of Canaan. Canaan forwarded my emails around, and Steven Mosher ended up saying did you ask for a refund. Yes I got my money back, but I still got Jipped because well as you can see the price of miners have all just went up and yet to come down. I’m still kicking myself for trying to try a Canaan unit. Sometimes coming here is like A.A I need support and horror stories of others who’ve been ripped off to make me feel better about it. |
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QuintLeo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
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February 12, 2018, 11:23:38 PM |
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Seems like you are holding actions taken by Minerwarez against Caanan.
Doesn't seem entirely reasonable or fair to Caanan.
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I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind!
Like something I said? Donations gratefully accepted. LYLnTKvLefz9izJFUvEGQEZzSkz34b3N6U (Litecoin)
1GYbjMTPdCuV7dci3iCUiaRrcNuaiQrVYY (Bitcoin)
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gurugarzah
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
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February 12, 2018, 11:28:26 PM |
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Seems like you are holding actions taken by Minerwarez against Caanan.
Doesn't seem entirely reasonable or fair to Caanan.
Maybe a little, and maybe you’re right. But to me, when they’ve got them listed as an “Authorized Distributor” then they should have some responsibility to keep their name clean. At the time they were the only Authorized distributor on Canaan’s website. Oh, that and they’ve got their 11TH miners listed at $500 more than Bitmains S9 which does 2.5 more TH a second. So they’re just opportunist’s |
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HagssFIN
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1706
Electrical engineer. Mining since 2014.
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February 13, 2018, 12:02:43 AM |
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Have you talked with Steven Mosher (Head of Sales & Marketing) about these issues with Minerwarez? Steven: steve@canaan.io |
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gurugarzah
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
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February 13, 2018, 01:06:15 AM |
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Have you talked with Steven Mosher (Head of Sales & Marketing) about these issues with Minerwarez? Steven: steve@canaan.ioThank you, I do appreciate it. I have yes, he didn’t offer any kind of solution, other than ask for a refund. Which in my eyes defeats the purpose. To me this is an investors game, and to let someone play with my money for 3 months, and get zero returns. That’s 0% helpful to me. But at least I was able to get my money back. And it went to bitmain... Again.... |
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fccs
Member
Offline
Activity: 355
Merit: 47
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February 17, 2018, 02:54:37 AM |
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Any word on 841's yet?
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Kuulani
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
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February 17, 2018, 05:37:04 AM
Last edit: February 17, 2018, 06:18:36 AM by frodocooper |
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Got this email from Steven Mosher over at Canaan on Wednesday. I was glad I missed the initial batches of these cause the prices were down right ludicrous. What Steven mentions here (I think) is still a bit on the high side but at lease it’s not outright crazy. Good Morning Ku’ulani, Happy New Year, Our office is closed for Chinese New Year, but I will be working so please feel free to email me. Staff will return around Feb 25 to start shipping your orders. It's time again to do a forecast. We use the forecast to decide who gets product, so it's important to do one. You must have a current forecast. If you don't have a current forecast you won't be able to order. When customers do not complete their order in time the sales agents will turn to the forecast and select the next customer for the product. PLEASE ENTER YOUR FORECAST HERE For the 821 you can consider that the price will be below $2300 when we invoice you Avalon 841: The 841 will start Shipping in April. The performance is estimated to be 13TH and 1200 Watts. This is a Minimum Spec as we test all machines to perform at or better than the Spec. For Planning the price will be below $2500 on Pre order. Office Visits: Please contact victoria@canaan.io for office visits. The global team has moved to new offices so you will need updated directions.
(Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to replace code tags with quote tags.) |
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