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Author Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”  (Read 446771 times)
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prophetx
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January 06, 2014, 04:01:31 PM
 #2701

So do I have this right?  We paid a fancy 'PR' agency 18 thousand dollars - and all they got was one article in Forbes with mostly incorrect information and the other information was wildly ambiguous.

Boy, oh boy, I sure hope the Foundation doesn't pull that trick again.  That 'giv-a-way' was worse than the faucet.  Can we have a report on the activity taken up by our 'PR' firm?  Is there some documentation of the work they did for this money?  An accounting on this topic might be nice.

Thank you.

they had the article in Vice that came out a couple days ago, set up a panel at Inside Bitcoins LV last month which led to a few video interviews with Ron, there are a few other conferences they are working on, they did a couple press releases as well.  there is probably a few other things but that is what I recall at the moment
Was it worth $18K?

Probably. It's a start you know- you pay a PR firm to seed the ground. You still have to make it grow.

the 18k was for 3 months so they have another month of work to do.  

 I do hope to see them get more traction from known bloggers and analysts in the future as the wallets and distributed exchange become usable with real MSC.  there is still a lot of development work to do

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January 06, 2014, 10:24:10 PM
 #2702

Jeffrey Tucker just tweeted that Michael Terpin will be speaking at the North American bitcoin conference to be held at the end of this month in Miami so I would expect more mastercoin coverage there as well.

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January 06, 2014, 11:15:58 PM
 #2703

looks like mastercoin get a mention in this analyst report, first ever i think

https://equities.wedbush.com/clientsite/Research/ActionAlertFilePreview.asp?UUID=8F27B170-5C0F-4A17-8A59-A33229236B04&ViewerID=1CE41D7D-B184-45DA-AF98-1334A2E3030F

Quote
Mastercoin, for example, aims to take advantage of these recent updates and operates as a distributed exchange that sits on top of the
blockchain. This development would enable any financial asset (bonds, stocks, commodities, etc.) to be exchanged across the bitcoin
network in the same way the Bitcoin currency is exchanged currently. In this way, the blockchain acts as a trusted intermediary.

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January 07, 2014, 01:22:15 AM
 #2704

Quote
Even if J.R.'s paper is as brilliant as he apparently thinks it is, a normal person in his shoes would publish it with a less tacky title and let people realize its worth on their own.

Supposedly J.R.'s paper was going to be called, "An extraordinary work of breathtaking cryptographic genius" but being the humble guy he his, he opted for something simpler. ;-)


LOL!

The paper title was a result of my wishing that someone would write an ambitious spec for building cool stuff on top of bitcoin. I kept mumbling to myself that there needed to be a second bitcoin whitepaper. Finally, I got tired of waiting and took a crack at it.

The paper title was purposefully controversial. I figured a boring title would get me a lot fewer readers. Perhaps I turned some people off with that title. Oh well - it's too late to go back now.

Despite the title of the paper, I am actually quite humble. I'm easily the most humble person alive (possibly the most humble person of all time)!

P.S. Today is the two-year anniversary of publishing that paper!

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January 07, 2014, 03:51:45 AM
 #2705

P.S. Today is the two-year anniversary of publishing that paper!
Congratulations!  The paper is brilliant.  The concept is brilliant.  

However, I think the execution is questionable.  It doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything.  Is Ron Gross on an extended vacation?  Where did everyone go?  I see almost zero activity these days.  Nothing from the coders.  'Hello - is anybody out there?'

Why is the Mastercoin website http://www.mastercoin.org/ horrible and amateurish while the NXT website http://www.nxtcrypto.org/ is flat out awesome?  

Why does Colored Coin have a cool video with a Lizard and nobody at Mastercoin can put together a decent graphical explanation of what it is about?  

How is it that Mastercoin has feeble forum participation?

It sucks that Mastercoin exposure is so awful.  


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January 07, 2014, 04:07:23 AM
 #2706

P.S. Today is the two-year anniversary of publishing that paper!
Congratulations!  The paper is brilliant.  The concept is brilliant.  

However, I think the execution is questionable.  It doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything.  Is Ron Gross on an extended vacation?  Where did everyone go?  I see almost zero activity these days.  Nothing from the coders.  'Hello - is anybody out there?'

Why is the Mastercoin website http://www.mastercoin.org/ horrible and amateurish while the NXT website http://www.nxtcrypto.org/ is flat out awesome?  

Why does Colored Coin have a cool video with a Lizard and nobody at Mastercoin can put together a decent graphical explanation of what it is about?  

How is it that Mastercoin has feeble forum participation?

It sucks that Mastercoin exposure is so awful.  


+1
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January 07, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
 #2707

P.S. Today is the two-year anniversary of publishing that paper!
Congratulations!  The paper is brilliant.  The concept is brilliant.  

However, I think the execution is questionable.  It doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything.  Is Ron Gross on an extended vacation?  Where did everyone go?  I see almost zero activity these days.  Nothing from the coders.  'Hello - is anybody out there?'

Why is the Mastercoin website http://www.mastercoin.org/ horrible and amateurish while the NXT website http://www.nxtcrypto.org/ is flat out awesome?  

Why does Colored Coin have a cool video with a Lizard and nobody at Mastercoin can put together a decent graphical explanation of what it is about?  

How is it that Mastercoin has feeble forum participation?

It sucks that Mastercoin exposure is so awful.  



The execution is questionable because no one is really executing. There's only one full time researcher and two full time developers (will only become full time months later). Is there any full time CEO or executive director?

No offence to JR, but I think if I were you, having at least 100K MSC ( > 15 million dollars now), I have no reason to hesitate in leaving my day job and becomes full time in the project you really love. I don't think you will be someone who will think 15 million is enough and let me enjoy the life instead. In that case, the 15 million will soon become nothing.
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January 07, 2014, 06:05:37 AM
 #2708

Is there any full time CEO or executive director?
The ED is Ron Gross.  But he isn't doing much to keep the interest momentum going. 
BitThink
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January 07, 2014, 06:08:25 AM
 #2709

Is there any full time CEO or executive director?
The ED is Ron Gross.  But he isn't doing much to keep the interest momentum going. 
I know that Ron is the ED but I doubt he is full time.
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January 07, 2014, 06:10:56 AM
 #2710

I probably be missing something, I'm curious why do we need to build a coin on top of bitcoin blockchain. Why can't we just encode protocols (distributed exchange, etc) on top of bitcoin and use btc itself as measurement instead of having to IPO Exodus ?

For example, http://pastebin.com/jwijxhHt, yes there maybe many flaws on FC proposal, but point is what's the point of building more coin on top of btc where we can just encode whatever we want to encode on the blockchain. Is it just to fund development cost?
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January 07, 2014, 06:20:40 AM
 #2711

I probably be missing something, I'm curious why do we need to build a coin on top of bitcoin blockchain. Why can't we just encode protocols (distributed exchange, etc) on top of bitcoin and use btc itself as measurement instead of having to IPO Exodus ?
The stability of bitcoin is vigorously protected by the foundation.  One way they accomplish this is by making very tiny changes.  They have completely turned off scripting - which might cause unexpected problems.  They only make VERY minor changes to assure the integrity of the system.  So, bitcoin will necessarily be left as a rock solid protocol which doesn't move much over time.  Mastercoin enjoys the wild recklessness which comes with allowing special new rules. But, this extra function comes with a stability price.  If the coders are awesome, great function will come without trouble.   But either way, bitcoin will remain rock solid. 
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January 07, 2014, 06:47:57 AM
 #2712

I probably be missing something, I'm curious why do we need to build a coin on top of bitcoin blockchain. Why can't we just encode protocols (distributed exchange, etc) on top of bitcoin and use btc itself as measurement instead of having to IPO Exodus ?
The stability of bitcoin is vigorously protected by the foundation.  One way they accomplish this is by making very tiny changes.  They have completely turned off scripting - which might cause unexpected problems.  They only make VERY minor changes to assure the integrity of the system.  So, bitcoin will necessarily be left as a rock solid protocol which doesn't move much over time.  Mastercoin enjoys the wild recklessness which comes with allowing special new rules. But, this extra function comes with a stability price.  If the coders are awesome, great function will come without trouble.   But either way, bitcoin will remain rock solid. 

I'm not saying bitcoin protocol needs to be changed in order to support protocols on top of it.  Is it possible to do what mastercoin try to solve without introducing another coin, by using the same approach of embedding information on the blockchain ?
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January 07, 2014, 06:49:38 AM
 #2713

I probably be missing something, I'm curious why do we need to build a coin on top of bitcoin blockchain. Why can't we just encode protocols (distributed exchange, etc) on top of bitcoin and use btc itself as measurement instead of having to IPO Exodus ?
The stability of bitcoin is vigorously protected by the foundation.  One way they accomplish this is by making very tiny changes.  They have completely turned off scripting - which might cause unexpected problems.  They only make VERY minor changes to assure the integrity of the system.  So, bitcoin will necessarily be left as a rock solid protocol which doesn't move much over time.  Mastercoin enjoys the wild recklessness which comes with allowing special new rules. But, this extra function comes with a stability price.  If the coders are awesome, great function will come without trouble.   But either way, bitcoin will remain rock solid. 

I'm not saying bitcoin protocol needs to be changed in order to support protocols on top of it.  Is it possible to do what mastercoin try to solve without introducing another coin, by using the same approach of embedding information on the blockchain ?

Whats theres to gain by the board being lazy? Is it not in everyones interest to push Mastercoin as forward as we can?

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January 07, 2014, 06:56:51 AM
 #2714

I probably be missing something, I'm curious why do we need to build a coin on top of bitcoin blockchain. Why can't we just encode protocols (distributed exchange, etc) on top of bitcoin and use btc itself as measurement instead of having to IPO Exodus ?

For example, http://pastebin.com/jwijxhHt, yes there maybe many flaws on FC proposal, but point is what's the point of building more coin on top of btc where we can just encode whatever we want to encode on the blockchain. Is it just to fund development cost?

I saw that proposal before, and it was translated from the so-call leaked version of AsicMiner on-blockchain exchange. However, that protocol is not a real decentralized exchange. It requires a central authority to issue some codes for each asset and be trusted by all users.

In that protocol all information are encoded in BTC amount. For example, if a person want to sell his AM shares for 100 BTC, he has to send 100 BTC (plus other small amounts for extra information and mining fee) to the predefined AM selling address first and then the 100 BTC will be returned to him from that address. This has two drawbacks: 1) it requires people to trust the central authority to send back the BTC. 2) the sender has to have that amount of BTC first. How about I just have AM shares, but have no 100 BTC?
 
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January 07, 2014, 02:06:32 PM
 #2715

I'm not saying bitcoin protocol needs to be changed in order to support protocols on top of it.  Is it possible to do what mastercoin try to solve without introducing another coin, by using the same approach of embedding information on the blockchain ?

A special currency is not required for "smart property" decentralized exchange. We implemented it a year ago for colored coins, but masrtercoin-like implementation is also possible, and doesn't require Mastercoin.

However, other features require a special currency:

1. Escrow-backed currencies: you need to put something into "escrow", and it cannot be Bitcoin, because Bitcoin doesn't obey to "escrow" rules.
2. Automatic bet and CFD settlements: again, you need special rules, and thus special currency.
3. Saving addresses, spending limits.

However, a special currency is necessary only if you want to implement it exactly the way Mastercoin does. If you consider different kind of implementation, it is possible to do it with Bitcoin alone:

1. CFD/bets: Can be done via Bitcoin contracts ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts )
2. Savings/rate limiting: can be done using multi-sig scripts and third-party operator which will control one of keys. See here: https://www.bitgo.com/

It is very hard to implement escrow-backed currencies in a decentralized way without a special currency... But if you consider complex approaches, it's probably possible to do this using secure multi-party computations, you can create a "decentralized autonomous corporation" to take care of escrow. But to do this, you'd have to hire highly qualified cryptographers to design the system, it's not so simple.

That said, escrow-backed currencies are a bad idea in the first place. (Don't take my word for it,  Ron and David wrote that CFD's are more likely to work properly.)

Anyway, real motivation for Mastercoin is this: "Personally, I am waiting for an investment opportunity which offers the kind of blue-sky moonshot that bitcoin is, where my investment gains value in proportion to the success of the protocol. " -- J. R. Willett.

See here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bitcoinX/9_YJ_3qi41c/PWEp1WI4E10J

Who cares if there is another way to do this if that other way won't make you rich?

colored coins proof-of-concept: private currencies, stock/bond p2p exchange

Tips and donations: 16v13Fa9cPmfFzpm9mmbWwAkXY4gyY6uh4
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January 07, 2014, 06:02:27 PM
 #2716

Oh well, is there any other benefits on the technical side by introducing MSC as the middle coin between higher level protocols and blockchain? such as cleaner, easier to implement, or making it easier to support more sophisticate protocols in the future, etc.

I'm curious because if there's no real benefit of it why counterparty, a similar project, opt to burn the donation seed. It sounds less like they do it to get rich yet they still introduce XCP as middle coin.

BTW, I'm don't mind getting rich quick just like everybody. But a friend asked me this question, and I could not come up with a good answer.
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January 07, 2014, 10:17:19 PM
 #2717

Who cares if there is another way to do this if that other way won't make you rich?

Here is your dumbass funding vehicle:

"colored coins proof-of-concept: private currencies, stock/bond p2p exchange
Tips and donations: 16v13Fa9cPmfFzpm9mmbWwAkXY4gyY6uh4"

'Tips and donations'  -  How's that working out for you?  Are you funding your project well on 'donations?'

 - Oh wait a minute, let me check to see for myself how your 'tips and donations' funding vehicle is doing
https://blockchain.info/address/16v13Fa9cPmfFzpm9mmbWwAkXY4gyY6uh4

WOW!!!!   almost 3 bitcoin!!!   People really love your project.  

Because your imagination is clearly so limited as evidenced by your funding strategy, I predict ColoredCoins will suffer from other limits of its creator's imagination.  Anyone who would join ColoredCoins is a raging fool.  

Enough with the mudslinging. JR is totally up front as to why he started mastercoin ahead of getting involved with the colored coins project  - he did want something he could invest in. Killerstorm is calling a spade a spade. You're just being a dick.
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January 07, 2014, 10:47:20 PM
 #2718

Can we please have someone moderate this thread? To delete everything not specifically about Mastercoin? I think everyone who actually has some skin in the game (IE: Owns mastercoins) probably agrees with me that we need at least one thread that stays on task. If you want to complain, please make your own complain thread and label it appropriately. You will still bait enough people to fight over there.

I volunteer to moderate this thread if it's possible. If it's not possible, I'd like us to restart the thread as a self-moderated thread where we can ruthlessly enforce staying 'on-topic'.

more or less retired.
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January 07, 2014, 10:55:36 PM
 #2719

Can we please have someone moderate this thread? To delete everything not specifically about Mastercoin? I think everyone who actually has some skin in the game (IE: Owns mastercoins) probably agrees with me that we need at least one thread that stays on task. If you want to complain, please make your own complain thread and label it appropriately. You will still bait enough people to fight over there.

I volunteer to moderate this thread if it's possible. If it's not possible, I'd like us to restart the thread as a self-moderated thread where we can ruthlessly enforce staying 'on-topic'.

Yeah, I deleted the offending message. Any time you guys see a message that is off topic, feel free to let me know. This already IS a self-moderated thread Smiley

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January 08, 2014, 07:48:42 AM
 #2720

Oh well, is there any other benefits on the technical side by introducing MSC as the middle coin between higher level protocols and blockchain? such as cleaner, easier to implement, or making it easier to support more sophisticate protocols in the future, etc.

I'm curious because if there's no real benefit of it why counterparty, a similar project, opt to burn the donation seed. It sounds less like they do it to get rich yet they still introduce XCP as middle coin.

BTW, I'm don't mind getting rich quick just like everybody. But a friend asked me this question, and I could not come up with a good answer.

Part of the original Master Protocol concept was the ability for anyone to easily create a currency on top of the BTC blockchain. 

A simple proof-of-concept, even if that’s all it was, is enough technical justification for Mastercoins (MSC) to exist.  Create the means to create a currency by creating a currency.

MSC provide an example of what can live on top of a cryptocurrency blockchain.  If it has similar but separate utility to the underlying coin as well, it will have its own value, more if its utility is higher. 

Is it a technical necessity?  No. 

Tim Berners-Lee didn’t just publish a whitepaper, and he didn’t just write a protocol, he made this: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
Which doesn’t look anything like this: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btcchina/btccny

…but they are delivered via the same technological mechanism.  Applied genius with renumerated development resources.  Wink

Satoshi didn’t just publish a whitepaper, either.  He made real BTC.  And has a million of them.  And a massive community of developers and enthusiasts, all building an economy from scratch, making MasterCoin, counterparty, ColoredCoins, etc feasible to conceive.  Four years ago, few understood why he made “bit" coins.

So, if the Master Protocol lives atop the BTC blockchain, and Mastercoins live on top of the Master Protocol….

Who’s going to figure out what else can live on top of the Master Protocol?  The few who understand what else might.  And look: dedicated resources to do just that.

The ability to push the boundaries of what could live on top of Mastercoins is a huge benefit on the technical side.  Having that ability makes phrases
such as cleaner, easier to implement, or making it easier to support more sophisticate protocols in the future, etc.
much less of a pipe dream, and more like your dream.

Cool

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