MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[killerstorm]

I'm not saying bitcoin protocol needs to be changed in order to support protocols on top of it.  Is it possible to do what mastercoin try to solve without introducing another coin, by using the same approach of embedding information on the blockchain ?

A special currency is not required for "smart property" decentralized exchange. We implemented it a year ago for colored coins, but masrtercoin-like implementation is also possible, and doesn't require Mastercoin.

However, other features require a special currency:

1. Escrow-backed currencies: you need to put something into "escrow", and it cannot be Bitcoin, because Bitcoin doesn't obey to "escrow" rules.
2. Automatic bet and CFD settlements: again, you need special rules, and thus special currency.
3. Saving addresses, spending limits.

However, a special currency is necessary only if you want to implement it exactly the way Mastercoin does. If you consider different kind of implementation, it is possible to do it with Bitcoin alone:

1. CFD/bets: Can be done via Bitcoin contracts ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts )
2. Savings/rate limiting: can be done using multi-sig scripts and third-party operator which will control one of keys. See here: https://www.bitgo.com/

It is very hard to implement escrow-backed currencies in a decentralized way without a special currency... But if you consider complex approaches, it's probably possible to do this using secure multi-party computations, you can create a "decentralized autonomous corporation" to take care of escrow. But to do this, you'd have to hire highly qualified cryptographers to design the system, it's not so simple.

That said, escrow-backed currencies are a bad idea in the first place. (Don't take my word for it,  Ron and David wrote that CFD's are more likely to work properly.)

Anyway, real motivation for Mastercoin is this: "Personally, I am waiting for an investment opportunity which offers the kind of blue-sky moonshot that bitcoin is, where my investment gains value in proportion to the success of the protocol. " -- J. R. Willett.

See here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bitcoinX/9_YJ_3qi41c/PWEp1WI4E10J

Who cares if there is another way to do this if that other way won't make you rich?

[1714950310]

1714950310

[1714950310]

1714950310

[romerun]

Oh well, is there any other benefits on the technical side by introducing MSC as the middle coin between higher level protocols and blockchain? such as cleaner, easier to implement, or making it easier to support more sophisticate protocols in the future, etc.

I'm curious because if there's no real benefit of it why counterparty, a similar project, opt to burn the donation seed. It sounds less like they do it to get rich yet they still introduce XCP as middle coin.

BTW, I'm don't mind getting rich quick just like everybody. But a friend asked me this question, and I could not come up with a good answer.

[marcelus]

Who cares if there is another way to do this if that other way won't make you rich?

Here is your dumbass funding vehicle:

"colored coins proof-of-concept: private currencies, stock/bond p2p exchange
Tips and donations: 16v13Fa9cPmfFzpm9mmbWwAkXY4gyY6uh4"

'Tips and donations'  -  How's that working out for you?  Are you funding your project well on 'donations?'

 - Oh wait a minute, let me check to see for myself how your 'tips and donations' funding vehicle is doing
https://blockchain.info/address/16v13Fa9cPmfFzpm9mmbWwAkXY4gyY6uh4

WOW!!!!   almost 3 bitcoin!!!   People really love your project.  

Because your imagination is clearly so limited as evidenced by your funding strategy, I predict ColoredCoins will suffer from other limits of its creator's imagination.  Anyone who would join ColoredCoins is a raging fool.  

Enough with the mudslinging. JR is totally up front as to why he started mastercoin ahead of getting involved with the colored coins project  - he did want something he could invest in. Killerstorm is calling a spade a spade. You're just being a dick.

[crazy_rabbit]

Can we please have someone moderate this thread? To delete everything not specifically about Mastercoin? I think everyone who actually has some skin in the game (IE: Owns mastercoins) probably agrees with me that we need at least one thread that stays on task. If you want to complain, please make your own complain thread and label it appropriately. You will still bait enough people to fight over there.

I volunteer to moderate this thread if it's possible. If it's not possible, I'd like us to restart the thread as a self-moderated thread where we can ruthlessly enforce staying 'on-topic'.

[dacoinminster]

Can we please have someone moderate this thread? To delete everything not specifically about Mastercoin? I think everyone who actually has some skin in the game (IE: Owns mastercoins) probably agrees with me that we need at least one thread that stays on task. If you want to complain, please make your own complain thread and label it appropriately. You will still bait enough people to fight over there.

I volunteer to moderate this thread if it's possible. If it's not possible, I'd like us to restart the thread as a self-moderated thread where we can ruthlessly enforce staying 'on-topic'.

Yeah, I deleted the offending message. Any time you guys see a message that is off topic, feel free to let me know. This already IS a self-moderated thread

[udecker]

Oh well, is there any other benefits on the technical side by introducing MSC as the middle coin between higher level protocols and blockchain? such as cleaner, easier to implement, or making it easier to support more sophisticate protocols in the future, etc.

I'm curious because if there's no real benefit of it why counterparty, a similar project, opt to burn the donation seed. It sounds less like they do it to get rich yet they still introduce XCP as middle coin.

BTW, I'm don't mind getting rich quick just like everybody. But a friend asked me this question, and I could not come up with a good answer.

Part of the original Master Protocol concept was the ability for anyone to easily create a currency on top of the BTC blockchain. 

A simple proof-of-concept, even if that’s all it was, is enough technical justification for Mastercoins (MSC) to exist.  Create the means to create a currency by creating a currency.

MSC provide an example of what can live on top of a cryptocurrency blockchain.  If it has similar but separate utility to the underlying coin as well, it will have its own value, more if its utility is higher. 

Is it a technical necessity?  No. 

Tim Berners-Lee didn’t just publish a whitepaper, and he didn’t just write a protocol, he made this: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
Which doesn’t look anything like this: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btcchina/btccny

…but they are delivered via the same technological mechanism.  Applied genius with renumerated development resources. 

Satoshi didn’t just publish a whitepaper, either.  He made real BTC.  And has a million of them.  And a massive community of developers and enthusiasts, all building an economy from scratch, making MasterCoin, counterparty, ColoredCoins, etc feasible to conceive.  Four years ago, few understood why he made “bit" coins.

So, if the Master Protocol lives atop the BTC blockchain, and Mastercoins live on top of the Master Protocol….

Who’s going to figure out what else can live on top of the Master Protocol?  The few who understand what else might.  And look: dedicated resources to do just that.

The ability to push the boundaries of what could live on top of Mastercoins is a huge benefit on the technical side.  Having that ability makes phrases

such as cleaner, easier to implement, or making it easier to support more sophisticate protocols in the future, etc.

much less of a pipe dream, and more like your dream.

[shamntalk]

dacoinminster, can you explain in a bit more detail how a decentralized exchange running through MC can realistically operate, in particular with regards to speed (ie, orderbook matching, allowing for HFT, etc). Or are we talking about smart property / security and other financial instrument trading?

Thank you!

[romerun]

regarding to the trading speed, I don't think decentralized can match centralized, but it could be semi-decentralized for example AM-coin backed by AM-share created in mastercoin is to be traded in crypsy, btc-e and litecoin-global, off the chain of mastercoin, and the deposit/withdraw are done in mastercoin chain. This shifts the complication of legal issue in execution part to decentralized and gets the speed of centralized, best of both worlds.

[prophetx]

there's a new blog post covering some of the main issues and developments over the last 6 weeks.

STARTING OFF 2014: MASTERCOIN’S TOP 10 YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT
http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/01/08/what-weve-been-up-to/

a new development update should go out tomorrow are as well.

[MaxOnBit]

have MSC a wallet-Qt for Windows ?

[ak84]

can someone explain what is the difference between 2 MSC, 5 MSC, or .1 MSC?

ie. if MSC is not a currency, but access to the MSC protocol, what do people do with different amounts of MSC?

eg. What can I do with 100 MSC that is different than what I can do with 0.1?

Is there some set limit to what 1 MSC can do, say, I can create one currency with every 1 MSC? So with 100 MSC I can create 100 currencies?

[dacoinminster]

Important update on the coding contest: We'll be paying out half of this bounty early (on 1/22/2014). Details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.msg4398023#msg4398023

Also, I'm selling a tiny fraction of my MSC, mostly off the exchanges. Details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287145.msg4376270#msg4376270

The announcement caused some panic selling before people realized that I'm selling because I believe in Mastercoin and want to devote myself to it full time, then the price came right back up. Silly volatility!

[jeroenn13]

have MSC a wallet-Qt for Windows ?

They are working on it. Please read before posting.

[Its About Sharing]

can someone explain what is the difference between 2 MSC, 5 MSC, or .1 MSC?

ie. if MSC is not a currency, but access to the MSC protocol, what do people do with different amounts of MSC?

eg. What can I do with 100 MSC that is different than what I can do with 0.1?

Is there some set limit to what 1 MSC can do, say, I can create one currency with every 1 MSC? So with 100 MSC I can create 100 currencies?

I don't understand Mastercoin much and I've wondered that too.
But what if Mastercoin is used as a medium to exchange Cryptos as a part of a decentralized exchange.
Not sure if it would be needed, but the properties it has beyond BTC and the value it would carry, could
be quite valuable in these situations.
Feel free to mock me if I am way off!
IAS

[Nanolucas]

Important update on the coding contest: We'll be paying out half of this bounty early (on 1/22/2014). Details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.msg4398023#msg4398023

If someone wanted to help out with testing and bug reporting, how would they go about it? Is there a specific thread for testing? Is there a list of what needs testing and/or how to go about it?

[stslimited]

Say I want to place an order for 100 AsicMiner shares at 5btc each, how many Mastercoin will I need?


This hypothetical scenario will require 500 bitcoin and fill multiple asks on the mastercoin exchange

The purpose is that I need a frame of reference for how many Mastercoin I would actually need if I planned to participate in the capital markets



I posted a thread about this here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400781.0

[Herp]

Say I want to place an order for 100 AsicMiner shares at 5btc each, how many Mastercoin will I need?


This hypothetical scenario will require 500 bitcoin and fill multiple asks on the mastercoin exchange

The purpose is that I need a frame of reference for how many Mastercoin I would actually need if I planned to participate in the capital markets



I posted a thread about this here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400781.0

You would need zero Mastercoins to do that.  Only the issuer of the asset might need Mastercoins.

[stslimited]

Say I want to place an order for 100 AsicMiner shares at 5btc each, how many Mastercoin will I need?


This hypothetical scenario will require 500 bitcoin and fill multiple asks on the mastercoin exchange

The purpose is that I need a frame of reference for how many Mastercoin I would actually need if I planned to participate in the capital markets



I posted a thread about this here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400781.0

You would need zero Mastercoins to do that.  Only the issuer of the asset might need Mastercoins.

interesting, so how many Mastercoin would the issuer need to issue a new security with X number of shares at Y price? is there a formula? any predictable measure?

[Herp]

Say I want to place an order for 100 AsicMiner shares at 5btc each, how many Mastercoin will I need?


This hypothetical scenario will require 500 bitcoin and fill multiple asks on the mastercoin exchange

The purpose is that I need a frame of reference for how many Mastercoin I would actually need if I planned to participate in the capital markets



I posted a thread about this here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400781.0

You would need zero Mastercoins to do that.  Only the issuer of the asset might need Mastercoins.

interesting, so how many Mastercoin would the issuer need to issue a new security with X number of shares at Y price? is there a formula? any predictable measure?

Guess remains to be seen after the smart property features are implemented. Don't think anyone knows such specifics at this point, but I may be wrong.

[stslimited]

Say I want to place an order for 100 AsicMiner shares at 5btc each, how many Mastercoin will I need?


This hypothetical scenario will require 500 bitcoin and fill multiple asks on the mastercoin exchange

The purpose is that I need a frame of reference for how many Mastercoin I would actually need if I planned to participate in the capital markets



I posted a thread about this here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400781.0

You would need zero Mastercoins to do that.  Only the issuer of the asset might need Mastercoins.

interesting, so how many Mastercoin would the issuer need to issue a new security with X number of shares at Y price? is there a formula? any predictable measure?

Guess remains to be seen after the smart property features are implemented. Don't think anyone knows such specifics at this point, but I may be wrong.

so if it turns out people only need .0001 MSC to sign securities or something then the demand for MSC falls through the floor