MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[dacoinminster]

I'd like to point the attention of y'all to a very interesting thread that Vitalik started about implementing Contracts for Differences in Mastercoin.

I believe this is The Missing Link - a surefire way to implement any kind of asset on mastercoin (Backed Currencies is highly experimental ... might work, might fail - this one will definitely work).

Heck yes. This needs to be added to the spec. Like so many other MasterCoin features, it will be stupidly easy to describe. Probably just a minor edit to how the betting system works.

The spec is so SO out of date. Sorry guys! If somebody manages to get that spec into github in a format like markdown (hint hint), we can at least do pull requests on it. If all I do is rubber-stamp other people's changes to the spec, that is fine by me.

[mindtomatter]

J.R.,

As per your transparency request I can confirm that Michael's email included the following public Bitcoin address.

Michael Terpin:
_____
"I can confirm that I received the email (I'm in a car coming from my Bitcoin talk in Waterloo) and that the BTC address you have is correct: 1DnY4oupZSipeRVVJ3vw3zJTnEcjY5mQ2C  "
_____

I can also confirm the Board vote was unanimous for engaging Michael Terpin's Social Radius (the same group that represents BitAngels) and that the Board members had to overcome your skepticism about engaging a professional firm or paying for Press Relations at all.

Just to offer my two Bit cents, into the conversation I've been building software companies for a while (12 years) and I used to not spend much time, energy or money on engaging press. Over the last 4 or 5 years, though I've started understanding the value of spreading my message more widely and the more I've done so, the more successful my ventures have become. I think it has a lot to do with the "network effect".

Free media is great too, but the truth is Tech Crunch, Venture Beat and tech out lets with 10,000,000 + tech readers are overloaded with people emailing them about stories and end up developing reliable and trusted sources on different subjects. Michael is a trusted source on Bitcoin. Just see his recent thought leadership piece on the subject of Bitcoin, http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/18/bitcoins-road-from-perdition-what-will-hurt-and-help-the-controversial-digital-currency/

Plus in addition Michael has been into the features we are developing with Mastercoin since the early 1990's when he helped found some internet 1.0 companies. Including one that was going to do smart property on the web (but the tools didn't exist yet) so he ended up founding Market Wire (first internet Press Release company) in 1996.

I really do thing Michael is the right guy, for the right reasons, with the right experience for this task.   

-DJohnston

Ah, I didn't realize Social Radius was Michael Terpin's company.

[Luckybit]

You're paying 18k for 3 months of an agency handling your social networking?

Man, I'm not charging enough for sponsoring Let's Talk Bitcoin.

Yes, the board was unanimous on pushing for this, and won me over. We're essentially paying for SocialRadius to use their large rolodex to contact tech writers who might be interested in introducing the masses to our project. We're trying to reach beyond the bitcoin community, which is why it is so expensive.

Reiterating Luckybit's suggestion two pages ago, can we leverage the first article or two and submit a good summary and direction piece to Slashdot as well?

I also suggest translations. It's currently being translated into a few languages but we need videos and the whitepaper translated into at least half a dozen languages. Marketing should be global.

Slashdot is a good start

I think Adam has a point here. People consistently ask for easy to understand "ELI5" info on Mastercoin, yet there's next to nothing available. I'm confident that SocialRadius will do a good job in getting the word out - but what exactly will be the word?

Yeah, they are writing our "facts sheet", which we will then review and correct as needed.

Is that like an infographic? We need some of them too.

[prophetx]

I'd like to point the attention of y'all to a very interesting thread that Vitalik started about implementing Contracts for Differences in Mastercoin.

I believe this is The Missing Link - a surefire way to implement any kind of asset on mastercoin (Backed Currencies is highly experimental ... might work, might fail - this one will definitely work).

Heck yes. This needs to be added to the spec. Like so many other MasterCoin features, it will be stupidly easy to describe. Probably just a minor edit to how the betting system works.

The spec is so SO out of date. Sorry guys! If somebody manages to get that spec into github in a format like markdown (hint hint), we can at least do pull requests on it. If all I do is rubber-stamp other people's changes to the spec, that is fine by me.

JR if you can send me the link to the google document (not the pdf version), I can use this script to do the conversion  

http://lifehacker.com/this-script-converts-google-documents-to-markdown-for-e-511746113

Or you can do it, it doesnt seem complicated

[dacoinminster]

JR if you can send me the link to the google document (not the pdf version), I can use this script to do the conversion  

http://lifehacker.com/this-script-converts-google-documents-to-markdown-for-e-511746113

Or you can do it, it doesnt seem complicated

I'm embarassed to say that the spec source is not a Google Doc - it's a doc file. BUT I've at least been using OpenOffice to edit it

Ron Gross just posted that he is already working on this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324830.msg3483533#msg3483533). I'm sure he'd appreciate your help though.

[prophetx]

JR if you can send me the link to the google document (not the pdf version), I can use this script to do the conversion  

http://lifehacker.com/this-script-converts-google-documents-to-markdown-for-e-511746113

Or you can do it, it doesnt seem complicated

I'm embarassed to say that the spec source is not a Google Doc - it's a doc file. BUT I've at least been using OpenOffice to edit it

Ron Gross just posted that he is already working on this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324830.msg3483533#msg3483533). I'm sure he'd appreciate your help though.

thanks, i sent him a note

there is a script for that format as well

[dacoinminster]

Hi J.R,

I am attending the asia bitcoin conference in 10 days and just realized that maybe there is something that I can do to spread the word regarding mastercoin. I managed to invest my 2 bitcoins in Mastercoin on the last day by some luck back then since I was not even aware crowdfunding was running at the time.  I am open to suggestions, I would have loved to give a speech regarding mastercoin but I think those slots are filled.

Can you repaste this and asked everyone their thots, should I get some phamplets designed and I  can print them and spread them around when I am there.

regards nmak!

Anybody who has ideas for nmak to help him promote MSC at the Singapore conference, let him know!

[hl5460]

Hi J.R,

I am attending the asia bitcoin conference in 10 days and just realized that maybe there is something that I can do to spread the word regarding mastercoin. I managed to invest my 2 bitcoins in Mastercoin on the last day by some luck back then since I was not even aware crowdfunding was running at the time.  I am open to suggestions, I would have loved to give a speech regarding mastercoin but I think those slots are filled.

Can you repaste this and asked everyone their thots, should I get some phamplets designed and I  can print them and spread them around when I am there.

regards nmak!

Anybody who has ideas for nmak to help him promote MSC at the Singapore conference, let him know!

We have gathered some information in Chinese regarding mastercoin in the following link:
http://8btc.com/forum-69-1.html

[charleshoskinson]

China is BitShares town. Goodluck

[prophetx]

Hi J.R,

I am attending the asia bitcoin conference in 10 days and just realized that maybe there is something that I can do to spread the word regarding mastercoin. I managed to invest my 2 bitcoins in Mastercoin on the last day by some luck back then since I was not even aware crowdfunding was running at the time.  I am open to suggestions, I would have loved to give a speech regarding mastercoin but I think those slots are filled.

Can you repaste this and asked everyone their thots, should I get some phamplets designed and I  can print them and spread them around when I am there.

regards nmak!

Anybody who has ideas for nmak to help him promote MSC at the Singapore conference, let him know!

if you are comfortable with distributed trading, show people how to set up an order and execute an order or two.

this is by far the coolest part at the moment that can be shown, and get people excited about it actually working. 

i think now there is a wallet that works with this but I need to check that out and adjust my tutorial

------

if the Social Radius folks get the fact sheet done by then perhaps you could use that as well as a hand out


------

[romerun]

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

[killerstorm]

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

Just to clarify, we already released this kind of thing back in January: ArmoryX implemented p2ptrade. However, there was a problem with ArmoryX: being based on Armory, it required way too much RAM.

Then we implemented a wallet in JavaScript: http://bitcoinx.github.io/webcoinx/ (The problem with it is that it's quite a bit buggy and incomplete.)

So, I was talking about a third incarnation of p2ptrade in NGCCC. NGCCC is meant to be a secure and reliable wallet without inherent performance problems. So what's what we focus on now. However, we also consider fixing WebcoinX.

BTW I remember people here mentioned that colored coins are dead. Well, ~5 developers work on NGCCC now, so it isn't really dead.


And while we are here, there is an important difference between Mastercoin's distributed exchange and p2ptrade which is implemented for colored coins:

Mastercoin uses blockchain to store orders, while p2ptrade doesn't. p2ptrade can work with any communication medium.

Our first version simply uses a HTTP service for communication. This doesn't look like a distributed system, does it?

Well, it is decentralized in the sense that people are not tied to a particular server; they can launch their own and use it, for example. Moreover, some trivial add-on will let different servers to inter-operate, thus making a distributed communication medium.

Furthermore, there is a plan to use BitMessage as a fully p2p communication medium.

In any case, p2ptrade requires some additional infrastructure which, probably, isn't as reliable as blockchain itself. However, being flexible about orders has some advantages too:

• it is possible to cancel offers up until the point when they are being executed
• trading is as fast as communication; it is possible to make trade in matter of seconds
• it is possible to aggregate multiple trades in one transaction to reduce blockchain bloat and fees

So, to summarize, colored coins p2ptrade uses different approach and has different characteristics.

[prophetx]

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

Just to clarify, we already released this kind of thing back in January: ArmoryX implemented p2ptrade. However, there was a problem with ArmoryX: being based on Armory, it required way too much RAM.

Then we implemented a wallet in JavaScript: http://bitcoinx.github.io/webcoinx/ (The problem with it is that it's quite a bit buggy and incomplete.)

So, I was talking about a third incarnation of p2ptrade in NGCCC. NGCCC is meant to be a secure and reliable wallet without inherent performance problems. So what's what we focus on now. However, we also consider fixing WebcoinX.

BTW I remember people here mentioned that colored coins are dead. Well, ~5 developers work on NGCCC now, so it isn't really dead.


And while we are here, there is an important difference between Mastercoin's distributed exchange and p2ptrade which is implemented for colored coins:

Mastercoin uses blockchain to store orders, while p2ptrade doesn't. p2ptrade can work with any communication medium.

Our first version simply uses a HTTP service for communication. This doesn't look like a distributed system, does it?

Well, it is decentralized in the sense that people are not tied to a particular server; they can launch their own and use it, for example. Moreover, some trivial add-on will let different servers to inter-operate, thus making a distributed communication medium.

Furthermore, there is a plan to use BitMessage as a fully p2p communication medium.

In any case, p2ptrade requires some additional infrastructure which, probably, isn't as reliable as blockchain itself. However, being flexible about orders has some advantages too:

• it is possible to cancel offers up until the point when they are being executed
• trading is as fast as communication; it is possible to make trade in matter of seconds
• it is possible to aggregate multiple trades in one transaction to reduce blockchain bloat and fees

So, to summarize, colored coins p2ptrade uses different approach and has different characteristics.

Thanks for writing this up I always appreciate seeing the differences.

There should be a role for exchanges implementing MSC and related assets for higher frequency trading and other value added services, yet the core protocol retains inherent trading functionality should an exchange go down.

Everything has a cost, particularly on chain transactions in p2p networks, so traders will leave their MSC based assets on exchanges, long term investors who want to maintain privacy will not do that.

[Tachikoma]

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

Guys why the hostility towards coloured coins? This is not a competition. We are both trying to solve a problem, just in a different way. Let's be respectful to each other and each others work. 

[prophetx]

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

Guys why the hostility towards coloured coins? This is not a competition. We are both trying to solve a problem, just in a different way. Let's be respectful to each other and each others work. 

+1 to that

it is important that we try to keep the conversation positive, it is a small world and we do not know who might be able to help each other tomorrow.

[klee]

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

Guys why the hostility towards coloured coins? This is not a competition. We are both trying to solve a problem, just in a different way. Let's be respectful to each other and each others work. 

+1 to that

it is important that we try to keep the conversation positive, it is a small world and we do not know who might be able to help each other tomorrow.

Totally agree here, I am so excited so many similar projects evolve! See MSC, Colored coins, Bitshares, Nxt and who knows what else.

[wiggi]

The MasterCoin specification gives an example about accepting a bet
"Once GoldCoins reach a value of 20 or the bet deadline passes, the bet winner gets 99.5% of the money"

But how is it decided (and enforced) who wins and who loses?
Is there something more concrete than discussion in this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg2895109#msg2895109
and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3393152#msg3393152

Can it happen automatically (in this case, because GoldCoin in implemented in MasterCoin) without ProofOfAnything
and without having to trust someone?

[ripper234]

1.
I encourage you all to read and participate on this thread that compares BitShares and Mastercoin. It's important to understand the various systems out there. BitShares has just launched its ProtoShares altcoin today (more details inside).
I finally managed to understand BitShares today, after seeing their short video.
It seems a lot like the CFD feature Vitalik recently proposed.

2.
I'm happy to announce that the Mastercoin Whitepaper is finally up on github (thanks prophetx for your help!). Pull requests are very welcome ... we have some work to do to standardize the excellent work done in the last few month and reflect it back into the spec, as well as start developing upcoming features in more detail.

Hi J.R,

I am attending the asia bitcoin conference in 10 days and just realized that maybe there is something that I can do to spread the word regarding mastercoin. I managed to invest my 2 bitcoins in Mastercoin on the last day by some luck back then since I was not even aware crowdfunding was running at the time.  I am open to suggestions, I would have loved to give a speech regarding mastercoin but I think those slots are filled.

Can you repaste this and asked everyone their thots, should I get some phamplets designed and I  can print them and spread them around when I am there.

regards nmak!

Anybody who has ideas for nmak to help him promote MSC at the Singapore conference, let him know!

Great news. How about you just give an talk titled "Introduction Mastercoin"?

You can use my slides if you want (they need a bit of updating but otherwise provide a good introduction).

I thought about attending, but I'm not sure I can justify the price of a plane ticket.

JR if you can send me the link to the google document (not the pdf version), I can use this script to do the conversion  

I'm embarassed to say that the spec source is not a Google Doc - it's a doc file. BUT I've at least been using OpenOffice to edit it

Ron Gross just posted that he is already working on this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324830.msg3483533#msg3483533). I'm sure he'd appreciate your help though.

Thanks for the prodding and help - Done!

I encourage you all to submit pull requests to the spec for the various updates and features we added since v1.1.

From the words of J.R:

The first round of edits should probably be all the things I have promised to fix. Basically, a search of my posts to the main project thread which have the word "spec" will yield several places where I said "Oh crap I need to fix that in the spec" or something along those lines. Plus there are multiple things I promised to add, like dividends, distributed e-commerce, rate-limited savings, and now the contracts for difference feature. Those may not be quite as obvious, but at least I have someplace to put them now.

I hear color coin is going to release their barely useable alpha of distributed exchange this week

Guys why the hostility towards coloured coins? This is not a competition. We are both trying to solve a problem, just in a different way. Let's be respectful to each other and each others work. 

Definitely.

We're all working towards the same goal here, just trying different methods of getting there.
Please keep the discussion respectful.

The MasterCoin specification gives an example about accepting a bet
"Once GoldCoins reach a value of 20 or the bet deadline passes, the bet winner gets 99.5% of the money"

But how is it decided (and enforced) who wins and who loses?
Is there something more concrete than discussion in this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg2895109#msg2895109
and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3393152#msg3393152

Can it happen automatically (in this case, because GoldCoin in implemented in MasterCoin) without ProofOfAnything
and without having to trust someone?

Betting relies on Price Feeds.
At the point in time where the bet is resolved, everybody just looks up the appropriate underlying price feed (provided by a 3rd party), and see who one.

There are a few ideas regarding distributing away that 3rd party, but for now our baseline is choosing an relying on someone "official" (e.g. a Forex company) to publish their idea of what the price should be.

[Tachikoma]

2
I'm happy to announce that the Mastercoin Whitepaper is finally up on github (thanks prophetx for your help!). Pull requests are very welcome ... we have some work to do to standardize the excellent work done in the last few month and reflect it back into the spec, as well as start developing upcoming features in more detail.

This makes me very happy, finally we can send pull requests to amend the standard. Who is authorised to verify/accept pull requests?

Zathras could you make a pull request for your PDF? I am happy to also do it if you rather spend time finishing up the exchange code at this point.

[ripper234]

2
I'm happy to announce that the Mastercoin Whitepaper is finally up on github (thanks prophetx for your help!). Pull requests are very welcome ... we have some work to do to standardize the excellent work done in the last few month and reflect it back into the spec, as well as start developing upcoming features in more detail.

This makes me very happy, finally we can send pull requests to amend the standard. Who is authorised to verify/accept pull requests?

Zathras could you make a pull request for your PDF? I am happy to also do it if you rather spend time finishing up the exchange code at this point.

Right now it's J.R and myself ... and I still need to understand from J.R what kind of process he envisions for authorizing these pull requests.
Minor "non-breaking" pull requests will be accepted more easily.

For any major feature or breaking change we'll of course need some form of buy-in from J.R/developers/community/foundation.