MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[maxmint]

Should be resolved now.  Sorry for the delay in showing transactions guys.

Looks good now, thanks for fixing that!

Another problem that just came up: Mastercoin-explorer and Masterchest differ on the outgoing transactions of address 1HRE7U9XNPD8kJBCwm5Q1VAepz25GBXnVk

Mastercoin-explorer marks all transactions before Oct 7 as invalid and shows a final balance of 1,554.031 MSC:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addresses/1HRE7U9XNPD8kJBCwm5Q1VAepz25GBXnVk

Masterchest on the other hand marks almost all outgoing transactions as valid and shows a final balance of 0 MSC:
https://masterchest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=1HRE7U9XNPD8kJBCwm5Q1VAepz25GBXnVk

What's causing this?

[Tachikoma]

Hmm that is not expected. The reimport should be finished by now. I will check it out once I'm off work

[rbdrbd]

Well, then if Mastercoin is VERY successful, we'll end up with our very own version of OneCoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200177.0). 

Can't wait for the Smart Properties conversation to really get off the ground, so I can follow it and contribute feedback. It looks like you guys got a very qualified individual to run with it...really excited. I can see several areas around it where the spec needs to be expanded/improved, and would be happy to be a part of that conversation.

Please feel free to submit pull requests where you believe the spec can be improved - that's why it is in github

Thanks!

I will. I'll be travelling shortly, but should hopefully have some time this weekend. Plan is to add a section on Fees that covers such things as why collect fees, and how fees are paid (i.e. by the client recognizing it as a balance deduction of the current fee amount when it parses through that transaction, I'm thinking), and then for each feature where a fee is appropriate, add a sentence in that respective section that notes the fixed fee.

I will propose fixed fees, that can change if necessary in a future version of the spec. Two other options here are:
* Variable rate fees, depending on some kind of algorithm that looks back X blocks - too complicated at this point
* Doing fixed fees, but implementing a "voting" style algorithm, similar to what has been done in a few altcoins (I believe FreeTrade had one), where a vote solicitation message can be sent out with a time limit, and vote messages cast from MSC-containing addresses.

Just something to keep in mind.

[zathras]

Should be resolved now.  Sorry for the delay in showing transactions guys.

Looks good now, thanks for fixing that!

Another problem that just came up: Mastercoin-explorer and Masterchest differ on the outgoing transactions of address 1HRE7U9XNPD8kJBCwm5Q1VAepz25GBXnVk

Mastercoin-explorer marks all transactions before Oct 7 as invalid and shows a final balance of 1,554.031 MSC:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addresses/1HRE7U9XNPD8kJBCwm5Q1VAepz25GBXnVk

Masterchest on the other hand marks almost all outgoing transactions as valid and shows a final balance of 0 MSC:
https://masterchest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=1HRE7U9XNPD8kJBCwm5Q1VAepz25GBXnVk

What's causing this?

I've taken a quick look, I can't see anything obvious wrong @ Masterchest.  I can go looking into the individual transactions but I'll wait to see what Tachikoma says once he's taken a look first.

[rbdrbd]

A few more points:

* To Ron's question, I believe smart properties and everything else are assigned an ID from a single 4 byte namespace, right? That means a bit over 4.29 billion possible for everything, or does each entity type (e.g. smart properties, buy/sell items, etc) have their own namespace (maybe I missed this in the spec)?? 32-bits sounds like a lot, but that may go quicker than you think, kind of like 640KB of RAM.

* Regarding currency ID creation, if we have multiple smart properties created within the timespace of the same block, the spec needs to be clarified to deal with this, I think. As transactions within a block have no natural order, how should we deal with that?

* Do Smart Properties have anything to do with this item buying/selling? If not, wouldn't it make more sense to create a Smart Property, then have the ability to sell, bid on, or buy that smart property, instead of having two separate classes of A) smart properties, and B) items that are offered for sale out of no where? That, or keep the latter, but add the ability for buy/sell to smart properties as well. In any case, it's a bit muddy in the spec.

* Here's an interesting one: Looking at the spec, I'm thinking that the current way of having a 21-byte description for a smart property, or a category/item name for an item is limited to the point of not being useful. Say for example, you want to store a house deed as a smart property. How would you do that? Put the physical home address in the 21-byte field? What if the full address was > 21 bytes? What if I had a house transferred via Mastercoin, and then some disputes came up around the land rights, or land dimensions? A simple physical address won't help me (maybe I'm totally missing the point).

In any case, two options here to make this more useful, for both smart properties, and buy/sell items (as they currently exist):

-OPTION 1: Store a bit torrent hash code (e.g. "magnet link" - see http://news.softpedia.com/news/BitTorrent-Magnet-Links-Explained-132536.shtml) in the message. That will then allow us to essentially store and distribute the data for these secured assets via bittorrent...which takes care of P2P, data validity, etc issues, and offers some level of anonymity. A future smartproperty client could take care of initially seeding the torrent, and then taking that magnet hash code and putting it into the MSC transaction. This gets me excited just thinking about it.... so I could create a torrent for my 21-page house deed PDF, and then the bittorrent hash goes into the Mastercoin transaction. Cool!!   (We could even think of ways of compensating folks that maintain seed nodes for these transactions from MSC transaction fees, in the future.)

-OPTION 2: Operate a side-chain optimized around storing these kinds of assets. This side chain would probably not generate its own useful currency. Instead, instead of the fees being destroyed, they could be used to compensate the miners of this sidechain for securing it (and storing the data in it). E.g. the miner that solves block #4930 in the side chain gets any fee rewards from MSC transactions in bitcoin block #49202929.

[Tachikoma]

Yeah something is up with Mastercoin-explorer. I rewrote the validations to allow one big sequence of events based on block height and block position and all my specs pass but it seems the real life is different then my tests. Although the transactions display as valid now I'm missing some Test Mastercoin transactions. Can't say more about what's causing it at this time.

[haightst]

Yeah something is up with Mastercoin-explorer. I rewrote the validations to allow one big sequence of events based on block height and block position and all my specs pass but it seems the real life is different then my tests. Although the transactions display as valid now I'm missing some Test Mastercoin transactions. Can't say more about what's causing it at this time.

you need my team to start "testing" it?  LOL!

[TKeenan]

I will check it out once I'm off work

Tachikoma - this is getting ridiculous!  Where is your loyalty?  It is high time you quit your job.  What on Earth could be so important at your employer's company that you should delay writing/creating the world's new financial and currency systems?  

I demand an explanation.  

[haightst]

I will check it out once I'm off work

Tachikoma - this is getting ridiculous!  Where is your loyalty?  It is high time you quit your job.  What on Earth could be so important at your employer's company that you should delay writing/creating the world's new financial and currency systems?  

I demand an explanation.  

~ya where is all this cash you guys raised going?  

[lishbtc]

One of my trades is showing valid at masterchest.info but invalid at mastercoin-explorer.com. 

https://masterchest.info/lookuptx.aspx?txid=eab19296624353ea6b5694be740aed4b29d5078ed9242fc522ce98f940a39303

http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/eab19296624353ea6b5694be740aed4b29d5078ed9242fc522ce98f940a39303

[daoneway]

i dont get mastercoin AT ALL, can someone enlighten me? 

[solex]

i dont get mastercoin AT ALL, can someone enlighten me? 

Try a top down approach. Read this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24620-bitcoin-moves-beyond-mere-money.html#.Uo1bEdLI0WJ

and then delve into mastercoin.org

[rbdrbd]

Guys, has there been any thought to setting up a dedicated forum for Mastercoins? I'd be happy to set up and host a forum site if desired, powered around SMF or any other forum software. I have about 15 years experience administering Linux systems and development and run a company that develops custom software products for large enterprises. It would run on a Linode VPS, and forum.mastercoin.org could be made to point at the host (or mastercointalk.org, but I'm not sure who owns that domain -- mastercointalk.com is available).

I ask because I think it would really help the Mastercoin community evolve. For an example, Peercoin is another project that I follow. JustABitOfTime has done an amazing job so far in such a short period of time mobilizing community-driven PR. Just this past week, they have Peercoin being mentioned in CNBC, Forbes and the WSJ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341509.0).

If you look at the peercoin forums (http://peercointalk.org/), they have an entire group setup for Peercoin activism, across multiple media channels. I think a configuration like this is much more accessible to the community at large than a few Mastercoin threads on bitcointalk, or a Trello PM board.

Several of the folks around Mastercoin make a big point around benevolently "stealing" any features that Mastercoin competitors gain that could be useful. I think we should do the same when it comes to where ever another effort (whether it be another CC, or MSC competitor) is doing really well. And Peercoin is really kicking some ass with community organization and PR. Any feedback?

[ripper234]

i dont get mastercoin AT ALL, can someone enlighten me? 

I suggest you tune in to the webinar we're doing today (5:30 PM GMT).
It will also be posted on Youtube after if you can't make it.

Hi,

I think it would be useful to start a thread, or even a post on this forum, of what regular non-tech savvy users can do to help support the development of Mastercoin

I don't know how to code, but I do want to help. I have been looking into Mastercoin for quite some time and finally took the plunge and invested in it.

How about you start or join a local chapter?

http://wiki.mastercoin.org/index.php/How_to_start_a_local_Mastercoin_chapter

Guys, has there been any thought to setting up a dedicated forum for Mastercoins? I'd be happy to set up and host a forum site if desired, powered around SMF or any other forum software. I have about 15 years experience administering Linux systems and development and run a company that develops custom software products for large enterprises. It would run on a Linode VPS, and forum.mastercoin.org could be made to point at the host (or mastercointalk.org, but I'm not sure who owns that domain -- mastercointalk.com is available).

I ask because I think it would really help the Mastercoin community evolve. For an example, Peercoin is another project that I follow. JustABitOfTime has done an amazing job so far in such a short period of time mobilizing community-driven PR. Just this past week, they have Peercoin being mentioned in CNBC, Forbes and the WSJ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341509.0).

If you look at the peercoin forums (http://peercointalk.org/), they have an entire group setup for Peercoin activism, across multiple media channels. I think a configuration like this is much more accessible to the community at large than a few Mastercoin threads on bitcointalk, or a Trello PM board.

Several of the folks around Mastercoin make a big point around benevolently "stealing" any features that Mastercoin competitors gain that could be useful. I think we should do the same when it comes to where ever another effort (whether it be another CC, or MSC competitor) is doing really well. And Peercoin is really kicking some ass with community organization and PR. Any feedback?

There have been thoughts about setting up a dedicated forum.

1. FYI, forum.mastercoin.org redirects to this very thread right now, for convenience

2. I opened a Google Group for Mastercoin that nobody except me ever used

3. Right now the consensus is that it's best to remain on bitcointalk, because we want to position ourselves as part of Bitcoin, not an alt or competitor. We have asked theymos to open a dedicated sub-forum to Decentralized Applications (such as Mastercoin, Invictus, and more), and haven't gotten a response yet.

4. If we did open a new forum (I'm not completely against, but we need consensus for that), I would love to do it on Discourse. In this case we'll probablly ask Aric Fedida, our Head of IT, to install it (we haven't formally announced his position, but we should ... I'll do it within a few days).

5. For now - I propose you start a new thread on bitcointalk to discuss this. You can accompany that thread with a poll.

6. I really appreciate the initiative - thanks!

[W2014]

^ We want people, specifically bitcoiners, to learn about Mastercoin and invest their time, ideas and even money (trading) in Mastercoin.

So, for now, it would be a mistake in my opinion to migrate to a separate forum, where the early enthusiasts isolate themselves from the larger community we are trying to attract.

The time may come for a separate forum, so it is a good idea, but I think it is too early.

[Tachikoma]

One of my trades is showing valid at masterchest.info but invalid at mastercoin-explorer.com. 

https://masterchest.info/lookuptx.aspx?txid=eab19296624353ea6b5694be740aed4b29d5078ed9242fc522ce98f940a39303

http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/eab19296624353ea6b5694be740aed4b29d5078ed9242fc522ce98f940a39303

Sorry about that. I have very little time this week and something in the distributed exchange validation is messing up. I have reverted the changes and I think the transaction should be valid again. I made a topic for Mastercoin-explorer and other tools I wrote if you ever want to discuss such things they are better of there.

[haightst]

i dont get mastercoin AT ALL, can someone enlighten me? 

= smart property = "redlisting" bitcoins etc etc.. 

[rbdrbd]

There have been thoughts about setting up a dedicated forum.

1. FYI, forum.mastercoin.org redirects to this very thread right now, for convenience

2. I opened a Google Group for Mastercoin that nobody except me ever used

3. Right now the consensus is that it's best to remain on bitcointalk, because we want to position ourselves as part of Bitcoin, not an alt or competitor. We have asked theymos to open a dedicated sub-forum to Decentralized Applications (such as Mastercoin, Invictus, and more), and haven't gotten a response yet.

4. If we did open a new forum (I'm not completely against, but we need consensus for that), I would love to do it on Discourse. In this case we'll probablly ask Aric Fedida, our Head of IT, to install it (we haven't formally announced his position, but we should ... I'll do it within a few days).

5. For now - I propose you start a new thread on bitcointalk to discuss this. You can accompany that thread with a poll.

6. I really appreciate the initiative - thanks!

Sure thing. I love the idea and am willing to help where I have some time I can set aside.

The forums post is here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341882.new#new

Another thing I'd suggest is a separate thread for spec-related discussion. I've posted several questions that I have yet to get a response to. I'd be happy to do the spec editing work, but would like a bit of discussion before I do it and submit a pull request (otherwise it may be totally "out there"  ).  ...the only risk here is that the spec thread (or any other MSC thread for that matter) does not get enough responses and gets buried behind all the other bitcointalk product development stuff.

Also, one last thing: Do we have any devs that are on this effort full time? (It seems Tachikoma isn't, which I understand as this is quite a new effort and risky.) However, for instance I just hired another developer for my company yesterday...real decent skillset and not very expensive. As the mastercoin project gets more steam, and we now have these libraries that take care of the bitcoin-level bit tweaking, it seems to me that most MSC development largely becomes more commoditized....i.e. if not now, at some point soon, the a smart properties site for example could be made more by a general web dev that has a good midlevel level understanding of mastercoin/bitcoin, and uses the interface libraries that exist. You guys offer what amounts to a 100K bounty, plus 1000-some MSC, but did that do anything with moving anyone over full-time to work on the project? Maybe it's just a matter of time...I need to remind myself this project is only a bit over 2 1/2 months old!

[lishbtc]

One of my trades is showing valid at masterchest.info but invalid at mastercoin-explorer.com. 

https://masterchest.info/lookuptx.aspx?txid=eab19296624353ea6b5694be740aed4b29d5078ed9242fc522ce98f940a39303

http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/eab19296624353ea6b5694be740aed4b29d5078ed9242fc522ce98f940a39303

Sorry about that. I have very little time this week and something in the distributed exchange validation is messing up. I have reverted the changes and I think the transaction should be valid again. I made a topic for Mastercoin-explorer and other tools I wrote if you ever want to discuss such things they are better of there.

Looks OK now, cheers for fixing

[rbdrbd]

For anyone who hasn't already, please vote on the Mastercoin forums situation here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341882.0