MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[bitwhizz]

Good work Djohnston,

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[djohnston]

Thanks guys.

And thanks for the spelling correction. I've fixed it : )

If you find other stuff let me know.

[rbdrbd]

David, this is a good start! Thanks for the website updates, and adding in the additional resources.

Beyond this, the main failings of this project (as I see it) is how it's currently organized. Here's what else I would suggest:

* The board needs to be run like an executive committee. This means that each individual has a title, e.g. CTO, CEO, CFO, VP of Partnerships, etc. with clearly defined responsibilities. This allows for very clear lines of delineation of responsibility, and prevents people "hiding" behind some generic "Board Member" title. If I'm the CTO and the project is lacking clear technology leadership, it will show, and the fingers will be pointing at me. For the given role the member has, they need to be seen as the "captain" of that ship. By this I mean, that even though the captain may have a boss in the admiral, the captain is boss of his ship, and if an admiral gets on a captain's ship, it's still the captain calling the shots (while the admiral controls the overall strategy). If you have muddy rules and roles, problems in the human organization are hard to isolate and fix. This sets the stage for mediocrity.

* Consider compensating board members in MSC for accomplishing set quarterly goals and objectives, based on the community's perception of their performance. Not everyone in this community is a "bitcoin millionaire" yet. ... That will help us better find the most motivated people, and really get them involved. That will also ensure this group stays beholden and reasonably responsive to the community.

* As some others have brought up, let's move from this provisional board to a permanent board. Let's hold new board elections, and have the best and brightest apply. The community votes. As you know, this is exactly how it works in corporations as well, with the stockholders voting in the board of directors. Board seats should last 6 months maybe at first, since this project moves so fast, before a new re-election. (Maybe this could be boosted to a year after the first few years.)

* Speaking of executive committee, this project NEEDS a CTO. That is the huge sore thumb with Mastercoin at this time. The project needs someone experienced with technology to decide and execute over the technology direction. This person needs to be given latitude to accomplish the implementation and feature goals set forth in the high-level strategy, in the way that their judgement and experience (and rough community consensus) deems best. (I am not convinced I would be the best person for this position BTW, so this is not about me tooting my own horn. I believe there may very well be others more suited than I am -- I have the leadership experience, but my bitcoin technical experience is lacking.)

* This one will no doubt be controversial, but I'd at least like us to entertain discussing JR's horde of Mastercoins. He did buy them fair and square, but there are those 50-some thousand he got as a bonus. That kind of irks me, because as an exodus investor, one of my main risks was sending my bitcoin to someone I didn't know at all. JR did not have that risk, as he managed the fund. Thus his risk was much less. My view is that he does not deserve most or all of that bonus, due to his significantly reduced risk.

Beyond that, there is the issue of his participation in this project. I'm not calling for a socialist-style redistribution of wealth, just saying that if I'm going to work my ass off on this thing, it won't be so that JR can sit around and become a trillionaire. I think I'd feel differently if he was in here working his butt off along side us, but he's not. His current holdings makes a huge liability, as he essentially controls the market. Him stepping up and using a good chunk of that bonus money towards incentivizing this group towards meeting pre-defined goals would go a huge way, and would ensure that he wasn't sitting on a pile of 153,000 or so beanie babies a year down the road (as 100,000 MSC at 1:1 BTC sounds a lot better than 153,000 beanie babies).

-Robby

[TKeenan]

Beyond that, there is the issue of his participation in this project. I'm not calling for a socialist-style redistribution of wealth, just saying that if I'm going to work my ass off on this thing, it won't be so that JR can sit around and become a trillionaire. I think I'd feel differently if he was in here working his butt off along side us, but he's not. His current holdings makes a huge liability,
-Robby

You are a fucking idiot Robby.  I really hope they don't let you speak another minute.  JR paid for his shares the same amount that I did and everyone else did.  He bought them - under identical terms as he offered them to you and everyone else.  However, he believed in the project more than you - so he bought more shares than you.  Now you come in at this late date and start telling everyone how things ought to be run?  I hope they run you out of town.  You've got nothing this project needs.  

Beyond this, the main failings of this project (as I see it) is how it's currently organized. Here's what else I would suggest:
-Robby

Swinging your big dick around telling everyone how they are messing up - isn't helping anything.  You are clearly a chump with an ax to grind.  Don't grind it here.

that JR can become a trillionaire.

This is the only part you got right.  I hope you won't be joining us with the shit attitude you have. 

[bitwhizz]

Dacoinminister does deserve those mastercoins as he created the white paper and started this project. He bought them fair and square like everyone else, and the reason he had an 'unfair advantage' is because he created the project. So thats where the 'unfair advantage due to risk' is cancelled out. However we do need someone like Robby involved, as controversial as he might be, he can add alot to the future success of mastercoin. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, that may be his opinion, however i get the impression Robby does want mastercoin succeed as much as we all do. I personally think JR should contribute some of his holdings towards mastercoin. Thats not to say he doesn't deserve him, as he entirely does, it is to say that he should contribute a portion of his mastercoin towards the mastercoin project so his remaining holdings is worth more, which makes sense. This would only be due to the fact he has such a large stake in mastercoin that he should drive it with his own holdings more than anyone else. But of course JR willet is free to do what he likes. I hope Robby does come on board, i think he has the right attitude.

[TKeenan]

Dacoinminister does deserve those mastercoins as he created the white paper and started this project. He bought them fair and square like everyone else, and the reason he had an 'unfair advantage' is because he created the project.

Yeah, when was the last time you saw an entrepreneur start a company - and then buy shares at the same price as all the initial other investors?  Now, Robby comes late, wants to tell everyone what is wrong with the project, and complain that JR was unfair.  I am sure that guy isn't right for this project.  He needs to go away.  Probably go away fast is better.  

First thing he does is pick a fight about how unfair JR is with his holdings.  Hey Robby, what did you create out of whole cloth?  Nothing.  You've managed to keep 100% of your nothing I see.  JR made a great invention and shared it generously.  Now you want to tell him how to distribute his money?  - to you?  Hahahahaha.  

He will be nothing but problems down the road.  

Go talk to your buddy Meni - I hear those guys at Coloured Coins could really use a guy like you. 

[rbdrbd]

Beyond that, there is the issue of his participation in this project. I'm not calling for a socialist-style redistribution of wealth, just saying that if I'm going to work my ass off on this thing, it won't be so that JR can sit around and become a trillionaire. I think I'd feel differently if he was in here working his butt off along side us, but he's not. His current holdings makes a huge liability,
-Robby

You are a fucking idiot Robby.  I really hope they don't let you speak another minute.  JR paid for his shares the same amount that I did and everyone else did.  He bought them - under identical terms as he offered them to you and everyone else.  However, he believed in the project more than you - so he bought more shares than you.  Now you come in at this late date and start telling everyone how things ought to be run?  I hope they run you out of town.  You've got nothing this project needs.  

Beyond this, the main failings of this project (as I see it) is how it's currently organized. Here's what else I would suggest:
-Robby

Swinging your big dick around telling everyone how they are messing up - isn't helping anything.  You are clearly a chump with an ax to grind.  Don't grind it here.

that JR can become a trillionaire.

This is the only part you got right.  I hope you won't be joining us with the shit attitude you have. 

Please go back to your troll-hole with those ad-hominem attacks. I'll let the last 5 pages of conversation in this thread speak for itself.

If I had a shit attitude about things, I would be whining and complaining and calling people names, and not offering any solutions to help. I'm not doing that.

At the end of the day, I think we all have the same goal, which is to have this project be successful for the future of digital currencies, and make money in the process. Like I said, JR bought those coins fair and square. That bit after that was my opinion (I even prefixed it as such). Everything else I've written on this thread has been my opinion as well. But, I have put forward solid solutions for some of the issues the community has seen. What have you done, beyond trade your MSC around and call me names?

[rbdrbd]

Dacoinminister does deserve those mastercoins as he created the white paper and started this project. He bought them fair and square like everyone else, and the reason he had an 'unfair advantage' is because he created the project. So thats where the 'unfair advantage due to risk' is cancelled out. However we do need someone like Robby involved, as controversial as he might be, he can add alot to the future success of mastercoin. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, that may be his opinion, however i get the impression Robby does want mastercoin succeed as much as we all do. I personally think JR should contribute some of his holdings towards mastercoin. Thats not to say he doesn't deserve him, as he entirely does, it is to say that he should contribute a portion of his mastercoin towards the mastercoin project so his remaining holdings is worth more, which makes sense. This would only be due to the fact he has such a large stake in mastercoin that he should drive it with his own holdings more than anyone else. But of course JR willet is free to do what he likes. I hope Robby does come on board, i think he has the right attitude.

Thanks for the balanced opinion, which you stated without namecalling. I agree with you. Nothing I had said was to imply JR's coins should be snatched from him. Only that he may see the benefit of contributing some to help his project become a reality. Especially if he plans on not becoming involved full-time in the project.

[TKeenan]

But, I have put forward solid solutions for some of the issues the community has seen. What have you done, beyond trade your MSC around and call me names?

Please - I am begging the board: Have nothing to do with this guy.  I will vote every one of my shares 'No' on this arsehole.

This guy is pure trouble.  

[rbdrbd]

Dacoinminister does deserve those mastercoins as he created the white paper and started this project. He bought them fair and square like everyone else, and the reason he had an 'unfair advantage' is because he created the project.

Yeah, when was the last time you saw an entrepreneur start a company - and then buy shares at the same price as all the initial other investors?  Now, Robby comes late, wants to tell everyone what is wrong with the project, and complain that JR was unfair.  I am sure that guy isn't right for this project.  He needs to go away.  Probably go away fast is better.  

First thing he does is pick a fight about how unfair JR is with his holdings.  Hey Robby, what did you create out of whole cloth?  Nothing.  You've managed to keep 100% of your nothing I see.  JR made a great invention and shared it generously.  Now you want to tell him how to distribute his money?  - to you?  Hahahahaha.  

He will be nothing but problems down the road.  

Go talk to your buddy Meni - I hear those guys at Coloured Coins could really use a guy like you. 

Hate to tell you, but I was an exodus investor as well. I'm honestly a bit confused why you're so fired up over this all. Wow, relax.

I've already answered your other rantings earlier. I'll keep it at that.

[rbdrbd]

I just got off the phone with David Johnson. We had a great conversation and I think we're largely in agreement on things, especially around the need for a reference implementation. I think the next steps here, at least on the development front, are to get a call together with the developers and a few others and hash out the following:

* The current state of the spec and technology
* What does a reference client need to look like
* What's the best way to get there (e.g. dedicated team of X devs...how should it look, how should it run, etc)

I do have the beginning implementation of what could turn into the basis of a reference client (with the core-protocol implementation being built in to it), or the group could decide to take a totally different approach.

The plan would be to build a consensus opinion within this group, and then present it to the community for its opinion and blessing.

My feeling at this time is that a small dev team can be formed (which I will probably not be a part of, but may contribute code for at least at first), which will build a multi-platform, easy to use reference client utilizing best-practices. Beyond that, the bounties, etc approach can be taken with the community to build features and applications around this reference client. This is very similar to how the bitcoin community works.

I'd like to thank David for taking my call, and being so open to discussing the state of things and the best way to move forward.

[TKeenan]

Hate to tell you, but I was an exodus investor as well.

Well then you got your share at the same ridiculously unfair price as JR and you should now distribute them to poor children in Africa who didn't have a chance to learn of the project.  

What got me fired up is your attitude about how JR should now give you a shitload of his money to 'fix' the project because you know just what it needs.  

[bitwhizz]

Tekeenan, do you think you could do a better job than Robby at what Robby wants to do? if what Robby says is true, which i'm sure is,  he has the contacts, experience and knowledge to get the ball rolling, could you provide that Tekeenan? thats right, probably not, so please stop trolling


Thats great news Robby

[djohnston]

Robby,

Thanks you for calling me on the phone.

It was really good talking with you. I value your input and I know you are sincere in your opinions.

I'm excited to see the code contributions you make to Mastercoin. Talk with you soon.

DJohnston

[TKeenan]

I just got off the phone with David Johnson. We had a great conversation

...and here is what David said:  
If your code is so good, then you will get a good portion of the bounty.  None of the other coders get an assured salary.  Why do you come here asking for a salary?  Just enter the VERY liberal competition.  If your stuff is beneficial, you'll get a huge reward.  

Somehow you are unsatisfied with this idea.  You'd rather point your fingers around at all the things you think are wrong. If you stuff is good for Mastercoin, JR will reward you.  

Look, your first step is to come in a tell everyone how wrong the project is and how JR unfairly took too much money.  You will go nowhere with that.  

I am sure David put you in line.  

[klee]

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLLS.

[rbdrbd]

Hate to tell you, but I was an exodus investor as well.

Well then you got your share at the same ridiculously unfair price as JR and you should now distribute them to poor children in Africa who didn't have a chance to learn of the project.  

What got me fired up is your attitude about how JR should now give you a shitload of his money to 'fix' the project because you know just what it needs.  

It seems you got the wrong idea of what I wrote. I do not think in the least that JR should give me MSC. What I meant by that was that JR should consider contributing some of his bonus to others in the project in a controlled/merit-based fashion (i.e. performance plans, bounties met, etc) to preserve the value of his own MSC, especially if his own continued involvement will stay minimal.

This is my opinion, I was only putting it out there. I do not expect the board to have any say in any of this (it's JR's property). It was more something for JR to think about. Given that, I probably could have stated it a bit differently, but that's all I meant.

And, I started working on mastercoin-related code with no salary, or no promised bounty either. I did it because I saw the need.

I point out things that could use improvement with the project, and offer reasonable suggestions and solutions, all without insulting people and calling them names. What's the goal buddy? To have a project that's successful, or to smile and pretend certain challenges don't exist, and end up with a pile of valueless bits when someone else takes the work and forks it? This team is new, no one is perfect, and we are all just figuring it out as we go along. But we should all be open to educated suggestions and advice from others in how to improve.

[TKeenan]

Tekeenan, do you think you could do a better job than Robby at what Robby wants to do? if what Robby says is true, which i'm sure is,  he has the contacts, experience and knowledge to get the ball rolling, could you provide that Tekeenan? thats right, probably not, so please stop trolling

Even if Robby has that - he needs to find a new approach to introduce it.  

Pissing Tachihoma off and telling everyone what is wrong with the project isn't the way to go.  Complaining that JR has too much money and is just sitting around doing nothing doesn't win any friends.

I stand by my position.  Enter the coding contest.  If you shit is good, you will be fairy rewarded.  Stop complaining about the amount that JR has.  

Until Robby shuts up about his idea that he knows everything which is wrong with Mastercoin - I will vote every one of my shares - 'no' on that guy.  

[TKeenan]

It seems you got the wrong idea of what I wrote. I do not think in the least that JR should give me MSC. What I meant by that was that JR should consider contributing some of his bonus to others in the project in a controlled/merit-based fashion (i.e. performance plans, bounties met, etc) to preserve the value of his own MSC, especially if his own continued involvement will stay minimal.

This is my opinion, I was only putting it out there. I do not expect the board to have any say in any of this (it's JR's property). It was more something for JR to think about. Given that, I probably could have stated it a bit differently, but that's all I meant.

Our shares don't depend on our involvement and contribution today.  Our shares depend on how much we sent to Exodus.  I assure you I haven't done shit for the project.  Now do you think I should give my shares to your company so you can tell us what is wrong with the project?  Forget it. 

If you are dissatisfied with the amount of Dev shares - those which are allocated for development - then go start a new project with a new allocation.  What's the beef?  Nothing is preventing you from going to set up your own system.  But to criticize this one while at the same time saying JR doesn't deserve his share for sitting around becoming a trillionaire - is simple bullshit.

[TKeenan]

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLLS.

Fuck you klee.  I am raising a valid point.  You stupid fucker who can't understand the things I write - so you call me a troll.  If I had no point - it might make sense. 

I am calling that guy an arsehole for a reason.  It's not trolling.  You on the other hand - pure garbage.  Waste of fucking time.