MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[klee]

 

[BitThink]

Now MSC project is like a startup with the founder holding the majority non-diluted (and increasing) shares and then stepping down as a pure investor just after the company founded. There's nothing unfair here, but this kind of companies seldom succeed.

[djohnston]

Just for the record I know for a fact that J.R. is working to get full time on Mastercoin as soon as possible. He has my full confidence and from working with him he is a man of his word.

[killerstorm]

Now MSC project is like a startup with the founder holding the majority non-diluted (and increasing) shares and then stepping down as a pure investor just after the company founded. There's nothing unfair here, but this kind of companies seldom succeed.

But it isn't a startup, it is a currency, so it's much worse. J.R. could dump his stash to crash the price of MSC, which would result in cascading crash of all escrow-backed currencies.

Of course, J.R. isn't that dumb, but what if his private key is stolen? There is $20+M price tag on it now, it is sufficient to warrant highly targeted cyber attack or even physical attack.

It's a shitty situation.

The key feature of Mastercoin is in uses which depend on Mastercoin price, such as CFDs and escrow-backed currencies. Owner of a large stash of mastercoins can significantly affect the price, so it is absolutely crucial to secure these stashes.

(I don't think that distributed exchange is the key feature: colored coins are better at that, as colored coins-based exchange is faster and works with thin clients. But colored coins can't do what I mentioned above, at least, not now )

[BitThink]

Just for the record I know for a fact that J.R. is working to get full time on Mastercoin as soon as possible. He has my full confidence and from working with him he is a man of his word.

This is a good news.

IMHO, JR could slowly sell 1/10 of his holding of MSC to BTC and then to fiat. I believe this is not only beneficial to the redistribution, but also be enough for him to leave his day job. Even only 10K MSC (I guess JR holds more than 100K MSC right?) is more than $1M now. His wife will agree $1M in the bank is the real money.

[djohnston]

Alex,
Thanks for the input. I agree security is a very high priority. For this reason we are taking really big precautions with both the Exodus Funds and I know J.R. is doing the same with his private keys.
DJohnston

[W2014]

Now MSC project is like a startup with the founder holding the majority non-diluted (and increasing) shares and then stepping down as a pure investor just after the company founded. There's nothing unfair here, but this kind of companies seldom succeed.

But it isn't a startup, it is a currency, so it's much worse. J.R. could dump his stash to crash the price of MSC, which would result in cascading crash of all escrow-backed currencies.

Of course, J.R. isn't that dumb, but what if his private key is stolen? There is $20+M price tag on it now, it is sufficient to warrant highly targeted cyber attack or even physical attack.

It's a shitty situation.

The key feature of Mastercoin is in uses which depend on Mastercoin price, such as CFDs and escrow-backed currencies. Owner of a large stash of mastercoins can significantly affect the price, so it is absolutely crucial to secure these stashes.

(I don't think that distributed exchange is the key feature: colored coins are better at that, as colored coins-based exchange is faster and works with thin clients. But colored coins can't do what I mentioned above, at least, not now )

It appears you are more interested in criticizing this project and spreading FUD than working on your own.

J.R. dumping his MSC? It would become worthless.

Satoshi could do the same. The founders of any company can do the same. They usually don't since it's not in their own best interests for their investment to become worthless.

I guess you haven't been paying attention, but J.R. has divided his coins amongst several private keys, which are stored in safety deposit boxes. He announced this recently.

Coloredcoins are better? We get that. You've mentioned it repeatedly while criticizing this project. But somehow you are very interested in Mastercoin!  

[killerstorm]

Coloredcoins are better? We get that. You've mentioned it repeatedly while criticizing this project. But somehow you are very interested in Mastercoin!

Colored coins and Mastercoin have somewhat different niche. They are different things, one isn't better than another. As I mentioned, colored coins simply cannot do escrow-backed currencies, and escrow-backed currencies were the original selling point of Mastercoin, IIRC.

I see you're very protective because you invested in Mastercoin, but I'm just providing an objective comparison.

Trust me, I still work on colored coins, posting to Mastercoin thread once in a while takes very little of my time.

And, FYI, J. R. Willett was an active member of colored coin mailing list before he made his final spec.

E.g. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bitcoinx/9_YJ_3qi41c/PWEp1WI4E10J

I don't think ad hominem attacks earn you anything, If you disagree with me, attack my arguments, not me.

[W2014]

Coloredcoins are better? We get that. You've mentioned it repeatedly while criticizing this project. But somehow you are very interested in Mastercoin!

Colored coins and Mastercoin have somewhat different niche. They are different things, one isn't better than another. As I mentioned, colored coins simply cannot do escrow-backed currencies, and escrow-backed currencies were the original selling point of Mastercoin, IIRC.

I see you're very protective because you invested in Mastercoin, but I'm just providing an objective comparison.

Trust me, I still work on colored coins, posting to Mastercoin thread once in a while takes very little of my time.

And, FYI, J. R. Willett was an active member of colored coin mailing list before he made his final spec.

E.g. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bitcoinx/9_YJ_3qi41c/PWEp1WI4E10J

I don't think ad hominem attacks earn you anything, If you disagree with me, attack my arguments, not me.

You said it's a "very shitty situation" and you don't even know the real situation? And then accuse me of ad hominem attacks? Sorry, but I'm having a hard time believing you are an 'objective' observer when you make misguided statements such as that and create threads titled "Mastercoin is a Joke."

Finally, you engaged in an ad hominem attack of your own at the very same time as advising me against it. Go on, read your post again. You'll find it there.

[junsha]

Just for the record I know for a fact that J.R. is working to get full time on Mastercoin as soon as possible. He has my full confidence and from working with him he is a man of his word.

This is a good news.

IMHO, JR could slowly sell 1/10 of his holding of MSC to BTC and then to fiat. I believe this is not only beneficial to the redistribution, but also be enough for him to leave his day job. Even only 10K MSC (I guess JR holds more than 100K MSC right?) is more than $1M now. His wife will agree $1M in the bank is the real money.

Agreed.
And I gave a PM to JR and Ron few days ago, asking about let MSC tradable on centralized currency exhanged along with distributed exchange, since it will help MSC SPREAD.
No feedback yet, and I understand they are very very busy. can anyone clearify my questions.
1. Is it just a stupid idea. 
2. Is it already in the to do list.
3. Technically not possible yet (i.e need a wallet)?

Bitshares/PTS mentiond bellow rised 4 times these two days and now is about 31USD per PST, 26 fold rise even against BTC within about 1month.  （it's market Cap is 520 KBTC without showing real products vs. MSC market Cap around 110 KBTC)
From this price, we can know.
1. How much potential MSC has.
2. Moneys are waiting for these kind of currency, if they are widely spread.
3. If MSC were PTS/bitshares, it's price could already hit 0.8 BTC/per unit. (consider the number of coins bitshare 2000M vs MSC 620K)



==========Message on 11/27 ==========
Hi J.R. & Ron,

Though the first priority of MSC project is to speed up the development & hire engineer(s).
I'd like to suggest one thing:
-- to make MSC purchasable in centralized currency exchange(s).

I understand MSC will disrupt centralized exchanges, but at this very early stage, using centralized exchanges will help MSC SPREAD!

I'm in China, and I see one example.
Bitshares, they are now selling PTS, which can be exchanged into Bitshares 1:1 in the future.
PTS is trading in a chinese exchange. (I don't know if there are any other)
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=pts

The price of PTS rised from about 2RMB to 53RMB (Toping 65RMB), 10 fold rise even against BTC!

If MSC also does so ,  I belive there will be a similar move.
So, money flush in -> price up -> more people know MSC -> more money...
Possiblely it will reach/over 0.7BTC/per MSC quickly.  Smiley

I dont' know the technical feasibility, just FYI.

Cheers,
Jack.

[vokain]

It seems you got the wrong idea of what I wrote. I do not think in the least that JR should give me MSC. What I meant by that was that JR should consider contributing some of his bonus to others in the project in a controlled/merit-based fashion (i.e. performance plans, bounties met, etc) to preserve the value of his own MSC, especially if his own continued involvement will stay minimal.

It is possible JR believes that under a proof-of-stake system (when/if implemented), preserving his veto power that such a position affords someone will do better to serve the value of all MSCs versus selling at a price he does not like. Just a thought.

[djohnston]

So this.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasperhamill/2013/11/30/fed-up-with-bitcoin-heres-how-to-start-your-own-currency/?utm_campaign=techtwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Forbes covers Mastercoin.

Well done Michael Terpin, you are the man. Best Media Lead in Bitcoin. He knows his stuff. Great article.

[td services]

So this.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasperhamill/2013/11/30/fed-up-with-bitcoin-heres-how-to-start-your-own-currency/?utm_campaign=techtwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Forbes covers Mastercoin.

Well done Michael Terpin, you are the man. Best Media Lead in Bitcoin. He knows his stuff. Great article.

Nice, good article, concisely explains the goal of decentralized exchange.

[klee]

Coloredcoins are better? We get that. You've mentioned it repeatedly while criticizing this project. But somehow you are very interested in Mastercoin!

Colored coins and Mastercoin have somewhat different niche. They are different things, one isn't better than another. As I mentioned, colored coins simply cannot do escrow-backed currencies, and escrow-backed currencies were the original selling point of Mastercoin, IIRC.

I see you're very protective because you invested in Mastercoin, but I'm just providing an objective comparison.

Trust me, I still work on colored coins, posting to Mastercoin thread once in a while takes very little of my time.

And, FYI, J. R. Willett was an active member of colored coin mailing list before he made his final spec.

E.g. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bitcoinx/9_YJ_3qi41c/PWEp1WI4E10J

I don't think ad hominem attacks earn you anything, If you disagree with me, attack my arguments, not me.

Why don't you get some SSRI's? You really need them.
They will help you get out of this mess

[vokain]

In my studies and practical experience, SSRIs leave you in even more of a mess

[bitexch]

It seems you got the wrong idea of what I wrote. I do not think in the least that JR should give me MSC. What I meant by that was that JR should consider contributing some of his bonus to others in the project in a controlled/merit-based fashion (i.e. performance plans, bounties met, etc) to preserve the value of his own MSC, especially if his own continued involvement will stay minimal.

It is possible JR believes that under a proof-of-stake system (when/if implemented), preserving his veto power that such a position affords someone will do better to serve the value of all MSCs versus selling at a price he does not like. Just a thought.

Unless I am mistaken, JR publicly said that he would not exercise his right to vote in a proof-of-stake system. Unless this is in some sense binding, I not only don't think it's is valuable but think it can actually hurt Mastercoin; if JR can just informally change his mind and vote one day, then, with his overwhelming holdings, he could almost single-handedly change the outcome of a vote.

EDIT: The expectation that JR won't vote also will be priced-in to the valuation of Mastercoin, and if he disrupts this expectation, he could tank the price (or raise it, I suppose, but unless there were a vote regarding something which he and the majority of the community disagreed, there would be no reason to exercise it).

EDIT 2: It's a little strange that people tout Mastercoin's decentralized nature, and are worried about "some company" taking over the project (when of course that is hardly what Robby's proposal is suggesting), yet very few people have publicly stated concern over one person owning 30% of the currency.

By the way, has ripper heard about what's been proposed? Where is he?

[klee]

In my studies and practical experience, SSRIs leave you in even more of a mess

Hehe, I know but he is an emergency case

[klee]

Still don't get why all this drama lately!
Sure there are some mis-management issues - there are always are (especially in startups).
Sure developing team faced some hurdles - if you know a shit about software dev, again this is no big news. Get used to it!

Basically MSC is in its infancy and will face a lot of challenges and up's and down's that usually ordinary people will never learn. Early adopters phase is not accessible for the masses in high tech start ups - VC's and Angels that have access to projects like this (see early FB and Twitter) are expecting it and are not disheartened by the first obstacles every startup faces.

We are in uncharted territory since Bitcoin (which faced similar problems in the beginning) in regard to Pre-IPO participation of the masses in new projects. Because this is the case here, in fact every MSC stakeholder is like holding shares of a pre-IPO company!

[vokain]

It seems you got the wrong idea of what I wrote. I do not think in the least that JR should give me MSC. What I meant by that was that JR should consider contributing some of his bonus to others in the project in a controlled/merit-based fashion (i.e. performance plans, bounties met, etc) to preserve the value of his own MSC, especially if his own continued involvement will stay minimal.

It is possible JR believes that under a proof-of-stake system (when/if implemented), preserving his veto power that such a position affords someone will do better to serve the value of all MSCs versus selling at a price he does not like. Just a thought.

Unless I am mistaken, JR publicly said that he would not exercise his right to vote in a proof-of-stake system. Unless this is in some sense binding, I not only don't think it's is valuable but think it can actually hurt Mastercoin; if JR can just informally change his mind and vote one day, then, with his overwhelming holdings, he could almost single-handedly change the outcome of a vote.

EDIT: The expectation that JR won't vote also will be priced-in to the valuation of Mastercoin, and if he disrupts this expectation, he could tank the price (or raise it, I suppose, but unless there were a vote regarding something which he and the majority of the community disagreed, there would be no reason to exercise it).

EDIT 2: It's a little strange that people tout Mastercoin's decentralized nature, and are worried about "some company" taking over the project (when of course that is hardly what Robby's proposal is suggesting), yet very few people have publicly stated concern over one person owning 30% of the currency.

By the way, has ripper heard about what's been proposed? Where is he?

It is rationally in JR's self interest as a 30% stakeholder to raise the value of his 30% of the system, not make decisions that might tank it. I can't say much about the veto thing at the moment because this is something a wee bit down the road and the best decision is not clear at the moment. To me at this point in time, it would make sense if JR kept his veto power.

In regards to Robby's proposal, we are engaging in talks this week about how we can best work together. Because these talks have not happened yet, we have not announced anything because that is obviously irresponsible. That is all I can say. It may or may not happen.

Please, patience. It's a weekend.

[Anon136]

how many mastercoins are there total?