MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[Herp]

You all know (or should know) that venture capital groups have lined up millions of dollars to pour into MSC-based initiatives. The Houstan hack-a-thon was completely dominated by Mastercoin projects. Probably 90% of the projects being worked on were targeted at MSC. Our competitors consist of several systems which have a long way to go to catch up with us, and one knock-off which literally forked our spec and rushed some half-baked stuff out the door.

I'm not saying that our project can rest on our laurels, but rather that we have the momentum right now, and we don't intend to lose it.

Got a warm fuzzy feeling reading this post. It really made my day. This is the type of "master" attitude you want to see from someone in charge of the project.

Now you need to focus/direct this moment of clarity towards changing a few minds out here, because many people drank the Kool-aid of these copy-cats, including Let's talk bitcoin, among others.

[Herp]

This comes off as very defensive and your competitors obviously don't have a long way to catch up with you: Counterparty already has features which you don't intend to have for another 3-6 months. Your attacks just sound ad hominem, and since Mastercoin still has consensus issues and never actually did any testing on testnet, it seems pretty absurd to call their stuff "half baked".

It looks very bad from a PR perspective to be so inflammatory in your "criticisms" of other projects.

I strongly disagree. Ad hominems actually target the person/entity not specific facts relevant to the discussion, to which dacoinminster pointed out.

I strongly disagree about your assessment and the way you see the PR.

As an investor, don't like to see a bunch of softy weasel like pussies in charge of a project. I like to see strong determination and self confidence. I also like to see devs taking charge and calling out cheap copy-cats like Counterparty. This is what investors like to see: leadership, confidence and a clear vision.

Mastercoin, has at the moment, huge advantage over most of the other coins. I actually think it was somewhat a mistake to keep such low profile for these past few months, because many investors got fooled into investing in these 2.0 so called alternatives that won't be going anywhere. This money could have gone into Mastercoin to generate more growth.

The other projects, like Ethereum and others, have taken turns at discrediting Mastercoin in various way a number of times. This has to be addressed heads on, without beating it around the bush. If you don't, they'll walk all over you, taking money that could find a place in Mastercoin. Thank god that institutional investors, like the ones dacoinminster  mentioned are not as easily fooled as casual retail investors, that would fork money for any BS that has a bit of glam and no substance.

Even though, we've heard sweet talk about collaboration between projects, at the end of the day all these 2.0s are strong competitors for same amount of market share and from what I've seen so far the other projects are not afraid to pull any punches.

[bitexch]

This comes off as very defensive and your competitors obviously don't have a long way to catch up with you: Counterparty already has features which you don't intend to have for another 3-6 months. Your attacks just sound ad hominem, and since Mastercoin still has consensus issues and never actually did any testing on testnet, it seems pretty absurd to call their stuff "half baked".

It looks very bad from a PR perspective to be so inflammatory in your "criticisms" of other projects.

I strongly disagree. Ad hominems actually target the person/entity not specific facts relevant to the discussion, to which dacoinminster pointed out.

I strongly disagree about your assessment and the way you see the PR.

As an investor, don't like to see a bunch of softy weasel like pussies in charge of a project. I like to see strong determination and self confidence. I also like to see devs taking charge and calling out cheap copy-cats like Counterparty. This is what investors like to see: leadership, confidence and a clear vision.

Mastercoin, has at the moment, huge advantage over most of the other coins. I actually think it was somewhat a mistake to keep such low profile for these past few months, because many investors got scammed into investing in these 2.0 so called alternatives that won't be going anywhere. This money could have gone into Mastercoin to generate more growth.

The other projects, like Ethereum and others, have taken turns at discrediting Mastercoin in various way a number of times. This has to be addressed heads on, without beating it around the bush. If you don't, they'll walk all over you, taking money that could find a place in Mastercoin. Thank god that institutional investors, like the ones dacoinminster  mentioned are not as easily fooled as casual retail investors, that would fork money for any BS that has a bit of glam and no substance.

I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and maybe more people agree with you than with me about how the devs should talk about other projects, I honestly don't know.

As for Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

[Herp]

Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

I agree that space is big enough to allow for more competitors to emerge and competition is healthy.

Please name these specific features Counterparty has right now.

[bitexch]

Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

I agree that space is big enough to allow for more competitors to emerge and competition is healthy.

Please name these specific features Counterparty has right now.

With Counterparty you can create assets, make bets and contracts for difference, and you can trade all assets, not only XCP and BTC, on the distributed exchange. According to Mastercoin's timeline, they only expect to have user-created assets by the end of Q2, and I don't know when they plan to have bets and contracts for difference implemented.

[marcelus]

Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

I agree that space is big enough to allow for more competitors to emerge and competition is healthy.

Please name these specific features Counterparty has right now.

With Counterparty you can create assets, make bets and contracts for difference, and you can trade all assets, not only XCP and BTC, on the distributed exchange. According to Mastercoin's timeline, they only expect to have user-created assets by the end of Q2, and I don't know when they plan to have bets and contracts for difference implemented.

Congratulations to Counterparty for implementing those features so quickly but there is no denying that they are a copycat. As you said, this space is open source so it's all about getting there first and doing it well but JR is right when he says they're a copycat.

Either way, I think the time has passed to remain anonymous in this game. It was very understandable for Satoshi to do so being the first, but the cat is out of the bag now and govs know there's little point on putting pressure on anyone or any group of persons in an open source environment. If they don't like what's happening they will resort to other measures. Those that remain anonymous such as the NXT and XRP people, will find it difficult to compete with teams that can network and attract VC money like JR has already done and what appears like a large scale. This space is real industry now. Institutional money is ready. Projects need real names, real faces, these institutions can reach out to. I think this is an important point.  

[Matt Y]

Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

I agree that space is big enough to allow for more competitors to emerge and competition is healthy.

Please name these specific features Counterparty has right now.

- DEx (Buy and sell side)
- Contracts for difference (derivatives, currency hedging, etc.)
- Asset creation (create your very own altcoin with the characteristics you specify)
- IPO a company (once IPOed, you can pay shareholder dividends in XCP or bitcoin, automatically)
- Simple Win/Loss bets (sports)

If you research a bit more, you will find Counterparty has not copied Mastercoin. Instead, Counterparty has created a project in the *same space* using a *different* approach. If Counterparty simply copied Mastercoin, why did Counterparty's development surpass that of Mastercoin's with a team of two core developers and no external funding in only half the time?

[Herp]

Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

I agree that space is big enough to allow for more competitors to emerge and competition is healthy.

Please name these specific features Counterparty has right now.

With Counterparty you can create assets, make bets and contracts for difference, and you can trade all assets, not only XCP and BTC, on the distributed exchange. According to Mastercoin's timeline, they only expect to have user-created assets by the end of Q2, and I don't know when they plan to have bets and contracts for difference implemented.

https://www.counterparty.co/faqs/how-do-i-issue-an-asset/ This is how you create an asset. Command prompt style. Not many will bother to use this for quite some time, trust me.

Also check their bounty list https://www.counterparty.co/wiki/bounties-2/ It's empty. They don't have any resources. No cash at hand, just a very small team of guys who bit more than they could chew.

 Now go check Mastercoin's bounty list. It's overloaded with bounties many devs working at many different things at once not to mention the recently held hackathlon that will bring some very interesting apps to Mastercoin.

Mastercoin ecosystem is a luxurious exotic garden with many varieties while Counterparty pretty much resembles a desert wasteland. Some of the things in the works at the moment:

    Storj – distributed dropbox

    Toroken – incentivizing Tor relays

    SharedMiles (smiles) ride-sharing
    (This is also the team that won the Tel Aviv Hackathon)

    Coinvance – bounty management for Bitcoin 2.0 workforces

    BlockAuth – on-blockchain identify verification

    GoxCoin -  purpose of which will be to help out MtGox users recover some of what they've lost.
    More here about GoxCoin http://www.humint.is/goxcoin/

[bitexch]

Counterparty vs. Mastercoin: I am invested in both, and I think the space is big enough that we don't have to pick sides. But calling Counterparty a "copycat" isn't a good criticism, since Mastercoin is open-source (which is very important!) and it's not really about who came up with the ideas first, but who is implementing them more quickly and effectively.

I agree it's very good that Mastercoin has institutional investors, but it's not only about how much money you have backing the project, it's also how many features you have, and Counterparty objectively has more features right now. Actually, you don't want the money to get too far ahead of the project, or else there will be a more drastic reaction if the project fails to make good on what it promises.

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

I agree that space is big enough to allow for more competitors to emerge and competition is healthy.

Please name these specific features Counterparty has right now.

With Counterparty you can create assets, make bets and contracts for difference, and you can trade all assets, not only XCP and BTC, on the distributed exchange. According to Mastercoin's timeline, they only expect to have user-created assets by the end of Q2, and I don't know when they plan to have bets and contracts for difference implemented.

https://www.counterparty.co/faqs/how-do-i-issue-an-asset/ This is how you create an asset. Command prompt style. Not many will bother to use this for quite some time, trust me.

Also check their bounty list https://www.counterparty.co/wiki/bounties-2/ It's empty. They don't have any resources. No cash at hand, just a very small team of guys who bit more than they could chew.

 Now go check Mastercoin's bounty list. It's overloaded with bounties many devs working at many different things at once not to mention the recently held hackathlon that will bring some very interesting apps to Mastercoin.

Mastercoin ecosystem is a luxurious exotic garden with many varieties while Counterparty pretty much resembles a desert wasteland. Some of the things in the works at the moment:

    Storj – distributed dropbox

    Toroken – incentivizing Tor relays

    SharedMiles (smiles) ride-sharing
    (This is also the team that won the Tel Aviv Hackathon)

    Coinvance – bounty management for Bitcoin 2.0 workforces

    BlockAuth – on-blockchain identify verification

    GoxCoin -  purpose of which will be to help out MtGox users recover some of what they've lost.
    More here about GoxCoin http://www.humint.is/goxcoin/

I was not saying that Counterparty has more ideas in the works than Mastercoin does, but rather that you can do more with Counterparty today, than you will be able to do with Mastercoin for the next 3-6 months *according to Mastercoin's timeline*. I am not sure why you say the Counterparty devs have bitten off more than they could chew, since they're the ones who've implemented what so far Mastercoin has only talked about.

There are actually two Desktop GUIs for Counterparty: BoottleXCP and pyrpcwallet. pyrpcwallet is actually a lightweight wallet, so you don't have to download the entire blockchain.

What everyone is really excited for though is Counterwallet, a web wallet that looks really slick and will be available for testing this week. You can find screenshots here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/738w1f3kgqik1za/ymr1VCWUv6 (and more info about Counterwallet here: https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,79.0.html.

[BenAnh]

So this in basic terms is the P2P exchange for BTC/MSC? I have to have BTC to start with? What about other currencies, kindly let me know as I'm still trying to figure this out!

[Herp]

So this in basic terms is the P2P exchange for BTC/MSC? I have to have BTC to start with? What about other currencies, kindly let me know as I'm still trying to figure this out!

Other coins will be accepted soon as you can see here https://test.omniwallet.org/

[Herp]

There are actually two Desktop GUIs for Counterparty: BoottleXCP and pyrpcwallet. pyrpcwallet is actually a lightweight wallet, so you don't have to download the entire blockchain.

What everyone is really excited for though is Counterwallet, a web wallet that looks really slick and will be available for testing this week. You can find screenshots here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/738w1f3kgqik1za/ymr1VCWUv6 (and more info about Counterwallet here: https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,79.0.html.

Mastercoin already has such wallet you can try out https://test.omniwallet.org/ not just screenshots, but I have to admit those screenshots look promising.

[dexX7]

So this in basic terms is the P2P exchange for BTC/MSC? I have to have BTC to start with? What about other currencies, kindly let me know as I'm still trying to figure this out!

Yes, that's correct!

You can currently trade Mastercoins and Test Mastercoins. To buy, sell or whatever you need a few Bitcoins for the fees, because Mastercoin is build on top of Bitcoin and uses Bitcoin transactions to facilitate Mastercoin transactions. You may get a small amout of Mastercoins and Test Mastercoins via http://mastercoin-faucet.com to start.

Those two videos are probably also helpful:

http://masterprotocoleducation.org/how-to-send-mastercoins-from-masterchain-info/
http://masterprotocoleducation.org/how-to-sell-and-buy-mastercoins-through-the-decentralized-exchange-and-masterchain-info/

[BenAnh]

So this in basic terms is the P2P exchange for BTC/MSC? I have to have BTC to start with? What about other currencies, kindly let me know as I'm still trying to figure this out!

Yes, that's correct!

You can currently trade Mastercoins and Test Mastercoins. To buy, sell or whatever you need a few Bitcoins for the fees, because Mastercoin is build on top of Bitcoin and uses Bitcoin transactions to facilitate Mastercoin transactions. You may get a small amout of Mastercoins and Test Mastercoins via http://mastercoin-faucet.com to start.

Those two videos are probably also helpful:

http://masterprotocoleducation.org/how-to-send-mastercoins-from-masterchain-info/
http://masterprotocoleducation.org/how-to-sell-and-buy-mastercoins-through-the-decentralized-exchange-and-masterchain-info/

Thx bud, I just hate the fact of copying and pasting the private key! This will never work for me

[LightedLamp]

If you research a bit more, you will find Counterparty has not copied Mastercoin. Instead, Counterparty has created a project in the *same space* using a *different* approach. If Counterparty simply copied Mastercoin, why did Counterparty's development surpass that of Mastercoin's with a team of two core developers and no external funding in only half the time?

Because the Mastercoin dev's are incompetent?

[nakaone]

Regarding UI:

Yes, you need to read the instructions (tutorial) to use Masterchain web wallet. Sorry, it simply works differently than what you may be used to. This is mostly because Masterchain chose an unusual security model. However, within a few minutes, you'll have an "a ha!" moment and be off to the races. I have personally found it to be quite usable once I understood what was going on.

Please DO open issues on each of the github repos. We're devoting the remainder of March to making these wallets easier to use. Like Ron, I hope that omniwallet will be easier for casual users to use (won't require you to skim a tutorial before you can get started).

Regarding dEX:

Bitcoin/MSC trading is one-sided because posting a MSC buy order means nothing (it is unenforceable at best, spam at worst). Sure, you can signal your intention to buy MSC with BTC, but nobody can actually make you do it.

Once you are in the MSC ecosystem, order books are two-sided, and are automatically matched as you would hope.

Regarding speed of progress:

We've chosen to be more decentralized, with more implementations, and that means more time. Consequently we have a lot of beneficial cross-checking and redundancy (both technical and legal redundancy). However, we are narrowing down our number of officially supported implementations as we go forward to one PC wallet and one web wallet, as we have realized that the time sink of maintaining all these implementations is just too high.

I'm personally very happy with our progress. I realize it looks slow from the outside, but we are simply doing more, and our final product will be better for it.

You all know (or should know) that venture capital groups have lined up millions of dollars to pour into MSC-based initiatives. The Houstan hack-a-thon was completely dominated by Mastercoin projects. Probably 90% of the projects being worked on were targeted at MSC. Our competitors consist of several systems which have a long way to go to catch up with us, and one knock-off which literally forked our spec and rushed some half-baked stuff out the door.

I'm not saying that our project can rest on our laurels, but rather that we have the momentum right now, and we don't intend to lose it.

I am interested in the long term success of both xcp and msc, but to call counterparty a half-baked project running out of money is like a joke. they hired two of the most well-known experts (lerner and todd) to audit the protocol.

you guys even paid a bounty to get to know at which state of developtment counterparty is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=509616.0 .

I am completely with you that the door needs to be open for institutional investors, and I believe that this metacoins/ bitcoin2.0 have a huge potential to make cryptocurrency really really superior to normal money - the idea of programmable money becomes reality here.

anyway I also think that this was bad and unneccessary regarding pr.

[Herp]

Lots of counterparty fanboys and trolls here, judging by your posting history, who most likely overpaid for Counterparty.

We'll see where this goes 3-4 months from now. No hard feelings.

[jeroenn13]

Lots of counterparty fanboys and trolls here, judging by your posting history, who most likely overpaid for Counterparty.

We'll see where this goes 3-4 months from now. No hard feelings.

I agree on this, have you seen the downvotes at the Master Protocol reddit topics?

[Herp]

Lots of counterparty fanboys and trolls here, judging by your posting history, who most likely overpaid for Counterparty.

We'll see where this goes 3-4 months from now. No hard feelings.

I agree on this, have you seen the downvotes at the Master Protocol reddit topics?

Guess the very same people promoting "brotherly love" and "world peace".

[BldSwtTrs]

About Counterparty vs Mastercoin, can some of you guys explain what is the difference between the scope of the two protocol?

Are they are trying to do the very same thing in a slightly different way, or is there an overlap but also some differences? For example will Mastercoin be able to do some stuff that Counterparty won't?