MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[DGulari]

Would anyone from Mastercoin like to comment on http://www.coindesk.com/developers-battle-bitcoin-block-chain/ OP_RETURN issue?

In case Bitcoin developers don't bend, it should be feasible to move Mastercoin to its own blockchain and use some proof of stake system or maybe even some hybrid model. I know this has been considered by Mastercoin before and even has some advantages.

Thoughts?

It is very easy - even trivial to move to its own blockchain.  The problem you have with that is, then it doesn't work.  The entire concept of MSC is that it enhances and improves bitcoin.  Making a DEx for AnyCoin is not interesting.  A DEx (and other cool tricks) which work with THE bitcoin is very cool. 

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[Herp]

Would anyone from Mastercoin like to comment on http://www.coindesk.com/developers-battle-bitcoin-block-chain/ OP_RETURN issue?

In case Bitcoin developers don't bend, it should be feasible to move Mastercoin to its own blockchain and use some proof of stake system or maybe even some hybrid model. I know this has been considered by Mastercoin before and even has some advantages.

Thoughts?

It is very easy - even trivial to move to its own blockchain.  The problem you have with that is, then it doesn't work.  The entire concept of MSC is that it enhances and improves bitcoin.  Making a DEx for AnyCoin is not interesting.  A DEx (and other cool tricks) which work with THE bitcoin is very cool.  

Perhaps moving MSC to say Litecoin could be an interesting alternative, if Litecoin devs prove to be more flexible.

There are advantages, however, to moving to another chain. Less clutter and hybrid pos/pow model could get more community on-board. It would also make listings on all crypto popular exchanges much easier.

BTC is not the main attraction here but what smart property can be created and the list is pretty big.

[jeroenn13]

About OP_RETURN:

http://www.nl.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/21bkrc/is_mastercoin_affected_by_the_40_byte_limit_on_op/

Dacoinminster: We're not currently using OP_RETURN. We may still be able to use it for our tiniest messages.
We're currently fleshing out a more robust and more censorship-resistant way to store our data.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

Calling Counterparty a "copycat" is calling it as it is. They've copied Mastercoin down to smallest details and Mastercoin's idea of using BTC blockchain.

Counterparty is not anonymous.  Everyone knows it is being built by 'Robby' - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102837

You can check precisely from where the whole thing started: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3822194;topicseen#msg3822194  

Robby wanted to join Mastercoin and he started telling everyone how they suck and he is an experienced professional who has done many big projects.  Mastercoin didn't get impressed with Robby's 'big swinging dick' attitude - so they told him "No thanks".  So Robby went off and did his own thing: CounterParty.  Robby built something nice.  However, the Mastercoin infrastructure is much more than Robby's fast programming ability.  Mastercoin is a community of dedicated hard working guys who COOPERATE together.  Robby is a single dominant personality who wants to take over and tell others who don't agree with him - they suck.  

We'll see which holds up.  Robby's work is no doubt nice.  But Robby is not a community of cooperating parts.  Counterparty will copy Mastercoin and every step - in some places, CP will even look better.  But CP will not be able to pass MSC as CP is mere a one man show with loads of coding skill.  

It is a shame really.  Mastercoin could have used contributions from Robby.  But his dumb-ass personality got in the way.   He isn't the kind of guy who cooperates with others.  'My way or the highway'.  So - he took the highway.  Bye-bye robby.

I had to laugh a bit at this post, especially the “big swinging dick” part. Here's the deal, guys: I got involved with Mastercoin because as an investor, I felt that things were in a bit of a rut and my skills could potentially be useful. I had some ideas that I put out there in a way that the Mastercoin team was free to integrate, or not. It was never intended to be a “my way or the highway” kind of thing, and any references to “my business” or “my experience” was simply to help give the ideas context and to establish a relevance to them, *not* to puff me up personally. Moreover, I offered support and resources as well in several proposals (by for instance, promoting the idea of a “mastercoind” as well as developing part of it and offering to finish it, offering development resources, providing some targeted, experience-based tips to the team, and more). My intention and goal there was not to “steamroll” anyone, nor force anything down people's throats, but more to raise an objection and outline a potentially better way of doing things in some regards, and then let the community voice their support or lack of support for it. The best ideas should emerge and thrive, by consensus.

“Dominant personalities” do not do a good job building organizations, products, projects, or anything really which involves more than one person – them. My track record points to collaboration, working well with others, and being able to delegate effectively (which is the only way to grow something beyond yourself). Was it always this way? No, and I had to learn some very good, but hard lessons along the “school of hard knocks” path, and am still learning. Like most people, I have more failures than successes in my life, but unlike many people, I really try to learn from each mistake and improve. In fact, all else being equal, I prefer to stay in the background – it's easier that way, and actions should speak for themselves. However, if I see something that is not going too well, and I have the interest, available time, and may have the skills to potentially help, then yes, I may get involved at that point. The only reason I stated my opinions is because I felt that logical, decisive action was lacking at the time in a few targeted areas, and things were not moving quickly enough. It was clear the “storm” that was coming in this space, and that Mastercoin would not be able to enjoy its first-mover advantage for long. In a few short months, this has come to pass.

I am glad to see that Mastercoin is becoming better organized and learning from past mistakes. This is a mark of any good organization. However, the luxury of time is no longer on their side. I am still a Mastercoin investor, and am grateful to the team (especially David, Ron, Taariq at the time, etc) for talking to and getting to know me and the ideas I had around team building and software development. Hopefully it was not a waste of time for them.

Hey Robby,

Thanks for chiming in here, nothing but respect for you, I actually liked all of your ideas and energy you contributed.

I have a question though. Is the counterpartyd that is being used your mastercoind? modified? or your ideas? Cause they are both named similarly, one disappeared at the same time the other one was created, and both are in python.

Thanks

[littleblue]

  JR'wife is so Clever .  we  hold msc ,JR and his wife sold.  Practice has proved： jr'wife is very wise ！today msc：0.05btc 

[Herp]

About OP_RETURN:

http://www.nl.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/21bkrc/is_mastercoin_affected_by_the_40_byte_limit_on_op/

Dacoinminster: We're not currently using OP_RETURN. We may still be able to use it for our tiniest messages.
We're currently fleshing out a more robust and more censorship-resistant way to store our data.

Perhaps MSC should communicate such important matters on all official channels at once (twitter, reddit, forum and so on), instead via some obscure reddit post.

[DGulari]

JR'wife is so Clever .  we  hold msc ,JR and his wife sold.  Practice has proved： jr'wife is very wise ！today msc：0.05btc  

LittleBlue - (aka Viagra)

We have been doing everything possible to drive the price down.  This is not easy.  Many people keep paying to get more MSC.  However, with renewed efforts we were able to finally get the price down to .05.  We continue to try to 'trick' the markets to get it down even further.  But it seems that we are finally at a place where we cannot get it to go lower.  

JR and his wife was very generous to help with the 'redistribution' efforts.  They sold at very undervalued prices in order to make MSC more available to new people.  Now, many new people can join and enjoy the MSC successes.  Before, with JR holding so much, only a few MSC holders would enjoy all the profits.  It was very hard to talk JR into selling for 1/10 of the value that he believed the coins to be worth.  But for the good of fellow man, JR did finally come to his senses and he did 'give away' many coins for an insanely low price of almost nothing.  

Today, still much less than one year from the first day, MSC has increased in value 500%.  This is VERY bad.  We are still trying to get the price down more.  However, greedy people keep buying them and we cannot prevent it.  We are trying to find additional ways to flood the market with other coins.  JR doesn't want to give even more away.  But nobody wants to let their MSC go.  We are able to get the developers to sell their as they need to eat and pay rent.  Thankfully, this drives the price down.  But, that won't last forever.  All the major holders continue to hold and less and less each day are coming into the market.  That is why this is your very last chance to buy them cheap.  

Me and a few others will continue to do everything we can to make them cheaper and more distributed for now.  But I don't think I'll be able to get them to .03.  I'll keep trying though.  But we can no longer depend upon JR's wife's generosity.  I am told she no longer will allow JR to give away more MSC.  (Seems a little bit greedy to me)

[littleblue]

JR'wife is so Clever .  we  hold msc ,JR and his wife sold.  Practice has proved： jr'wife is very wise ！today msc：0.05btc  

LittleBlue - (aka Viagra)

We have been doing everything possible to drive the price down.  This is not easy.  Many people keep paying to get more MSC.  However, with renewed efforts we were able to finally get the price down to .05.  We continue to try to 'trick' the markets to get it down even further.  But it seems that we are finally at a place where we cannot get it to go lower.  

JR and his wife was very generous to help with the 'redistribution' efforts.  They sold at very undervalued prices in order to make MSC more available to new people.  Now, many new people can join and enjoy the MSC successes.  Before, with JR holding so much, only a few MSC holders would enjoy all the profits.  It was very hard to talk JR into selling for 1/10 of the value that he believed the coins to be worth.  But for the good of fellow man, JR did finally come to his senses and he did 'give away' many coins for an insanely low price of almost nothing.  

Today, still much less than one year from the first day, MSC has increased in value 500%.  This is VERY bad.  We are still trying to get the price down more.  However, greedy people keep buying them and we cannot prevent it.  We are trying to find additional ways to flood the market with other coins.  JR doesn't want to give even more away.  But nobody wants to let their MSC go.  We are able to get the developers to sell their as they need to eat and pay rent.  Thankfully, this drives the price down.  But, that won't last forever.  All the major holders continue to hold and less and less each day are coming into the market.  That is why this is your very last chance to buy them cheap.  

Me and a few others will continue to do everything we can to make them cheaper and more distributed for now.  But I don't think I'll be able to get them to .03.  I'll keep trying though.  But we can no longer depend upon JR's wife's generosity.  I am told she no longer will allow JR to give away more MSC.  (Seems a little bit greedy to me)

  i like you    my name is Viagra , i like this new name! thank you reply to me .

[Herp]

I apologize Herp, this is definitely a very personal topic and I should have made it clear as such.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg5756327#msg5756327

I tend to remember the things that stick out to me and at least these messages and onward were fresh on my mind and the last recent messages bothered me to the point that I felt compelled to say something about it not just to you, but all the other unnecessary mudslinging that takes place on these types of threads.

So what you're saying here is that you're someone with anger issues that has a problem keeping a cool head and you've decided to vent your accumulated frustration over antagonistic discussions in this thread on a single investor who probably helped pay for your involvement. On top of that, you've probably advised Lisa, one of your collaborators not to engage in further talks with me against her better judgement, further proving my point you're biased childish individual with impulse control issues.

To me, hostility is not behavior typical of mature adults, but considering your dog-eat-dog view on this world, I understand that it will exist but it is something we can utilize better than most do.

Thank you for calling me immature. That's quite the compliment coming from a 21 year old fan of the communist Venus project BS.

"When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing."
Ch 5, Art of War

It's funny to see all these quotes from that highly overrated Hollywood movie referenced to death "Art of War" book, coming from pseudo-intellectuals who probably never read a whole book their whole lives.

Also funny to see such display of cognitive dissonance. You claim you don't like hostility and conflict and you come to me with a quote from "Art of war". See the irony in that? You also say you don't like hostility and conflict and say it's immature and yet you lash out, as I've said earlier, in a very hostile and brash manner and make biased judgement calls based on hot head impulses.

[hxmsam]

it is good,the same to the xcp

[airlutely]

I support deleting troll posts.

[littleblue]

We are still trying to get the price down more.  

Me and a few others will continue to do everything we can to make them cheaper and more distributed for now.  

  me too.
LET'S DO IT!

[johnybyo]

Would anyone from Mastercoin like to comment on http://www.coindesk.com/developers-battle-bitcoin-block-chain/ OP_RETURN issue?

In case Bitcoin developers don't bend, it should be feasible to move Mastercoin to its own blockchain and use some proof of stake system or maybe even some hybrid model. I know this has been considered by Mastercoin before and even has some advantages.

Thoughts?

Now you start worry about this when price drop?   Few day ago only counterparty sucks and mastercoin was very under valued coin and development team was perfect and making good job with million dollars of marketing money.   Because they dont comment anything we can expect they are really behind with all work. Its only hype what have made mastercoin price last one year. Im happy i can soon start buy back slowly and hard in ~$20 price.

[prophetx]

About OP_RETURN:

http://www.nl.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/21bkrc/is_mastercoin_affected_by_the_40_byte_limit_on_op/

Dacoinminster: We're not currently using OP_RETURN. We may still be able to use it for our tiniest messages.
We're currently fleshing out a more robust and more censorship-resistant way to store our data.

Perhaps MSC should communicate such important matters on all official channels at once (twitter, reddit, forum and so on), instead via some obscure reddit post.

Craig and Peter are finishing off a post on this, so when it is finished I will use hootsuite and blast it out to all official channels at once like I usually do

[prophetx]

If you want to follow ‪‎Mastercoin‬ and Master Protocol dev efforts and read what JR has to say then "Watch" the MSC GitHub repo https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec

[vokain]

So what you're saying here is that you're someone with anger issues that has a problem keeping a cool head and you've decided to vent your accumulated frustration over antagonistic discussions in this thread on a single investor who probably helped pay for your involvement. On top of that, you've probably advised Lisa, one of your collaborators not to engage in further talks with me against her better judgement, further proving my point you're biased childish individual with impulse control issues.

No sir, not me. Perhaps it was something else that advised such judgement. Anyways, I volunteer my entire time for this project as does everyone else on the board.

To me, hostility is not behavior typical of mature adults, but considering your dog-eat-dog view on this world, I understand that it will exist but it is something we can utilize better than most do.

Thank you for calling me immature. That's quite the compliment coming from a 21 year old fan of the communist Venus project BS.

Ad homina and irrelevant, but alright. To clarify, I am in support of the idea of a counter-economics/agorist based seed community with something like the sustainable and scalable ideas that the Venus Project has tried to develop. I agree their idea of economics can use some work, but it can be done. The type of community this product could "sell" would be modeled to promote a positive feedback loop on creating value, socially and economically. This is in the 5+ year plan for me when the world helps itself figure out a provably fair, multi-layered enforceable programmable wiki-governmental protocol. The Leviticus to our Genesis and Exodus, if you will.

"When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing."
Ch 5, Art of War

It's funny to see all these quotes from that highly overrated Hollywood movie referenced to death "Art of War" book, coming from pseudo-intellectuals who probably never read a whole book their whole lives.

Also funny to see such display of cognitive dissonance. You claim you don't like hostility and conflict and you come to me with a quote from "Art of war". See the irony in that? You also say you don't like hostility and conflict and say it's immature and yet you lash out, as I've said earlier, in a very hostile and brash manner and make biased judgement calls based on hot head impulses.

The problem Herp, is that your communications have most recently originated a lot of unnecessary dissonance within our very own camp and that is just not something we can afford to continue projecting. I agree, I could've advised you in a more cordial manner Herp, I am sorry and I was wrong there. Like I said, this is something I am against, have fought, am fighting, and will fight in the efforts of the greater cohesion.  Even so, us few Masterminds now are the model for those to come and we cannot afford to unfairly and offensively perpetrate hostility against the other efforts in the field when doing so will only propagate more distractions—this is not a us vs them fight as much as it is a bunch of similarly minded people with similar goals with different manners of accomplishing said goals racing.

[bitwhizz]

SORRY TO POST THIS HERE

However the mastercoin buyer/seller thread is locked,
so this is the only place i might get a seller
i am looking to buy MSC at market value, and lots of it
PM ME

[jeroenn13]

SORRY TO POST THIS HERE

However the mastercoin buyer/seller thread is locked,
so this is the only place i might get a seller
i am looking to buy MSC at market value, and lots of it
PM ME

I just made a specific board to buy Mastercoins.
http://mastercointalk.org/index.php?board=54.0

Could you please post this here and remove this one?
Thank you.

[BldSwtTrs]

If you want to follow ‪‎Mastercoin‬ and Master Protocol dev efforts and read what JR has to say then "Watch" the MSC GitHub repo https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec

That's the problem. There are so few communications efforts that one should go to GitHub to understand what's going on.

That's a very poor way to treat your investors. And don't talk to me about the blog, I follow every 2.0 projects and Mastercoin is definitly the worst at speaking to its investors.

[Herp]

Ad homina and irrelevant

You mean ad hominem. But no that wasn't an ad hominem, was just a reply your "immaturity" insults.

The problem Herp, is that your communications have most recently originated a lot of unnecessary dissonance within our very own camp and that is just not something we can afford to continue projecting. I agree, I could've advised you in a more cordial manner Herp, I am sorry and I was wrong there. Like I said, this is something I am against, have fought, am fighting, and will fight in the efforts of the greater cohesion.  Even so, us few Masterminds now are the model for those to come and we cannot afford to unfairly and offensively perpetrate hostility against the other efforts in the field when doing so will only propagate more distractions—this is not a us vs them fight as much as it is a bunch of similarly minded people with similar goals with different manners of accomplishing said goals racing.

"Your camp" did a great job so far at pissing investor money away. While this project has a lot of potential it was greatly mismanaged. Starting many wallets, including Linux wallet and dumping them (which was right call but not the point) wasting development time on that while having it all go to shit in the end. Also, losing 2 talented developers that went on and started their own projects (Counterparty and Ethereum), turning into competition for Mastercoin is also very much a proof of mismanaged operation. You were incapable of persuading them to stay. Someone like Vitalik, for example, shouldn't have been the hardest person in the world to persuade.

Speaking of which, you should stay clear of IR/PR as it's clearly not your strong suit let someone else handle this area. Just stick to coding. Do your "Art of war" fighting in there.

Other "efforts" should be fully exposed for what they are, because you have a responsibility to the community and investors. Most of the other efforts suffer from "the emperor has no clothes" syndrome and would be unfair to let people be duped in such a manner by empty promises and quick rich schemes. It was a respectable high profile Mastercoin developer that said Counterparty ripped off Mastercoin and that it's a cheap copy, not me. Now it has come to light this guy parted ways and used all of Mastercoin ideas as inspiration for a new project to enrich himself, as he was an insider, part of the Mastercoin development team, working on a project that ended up in the Counterparty camp. Instead of calling him out, you openly kiss his ass in a pretty shameful display of weird man love and you couldn't even do that properly, as you've managed to piss him off by revealing his last name.

You are clearly not on the same page with other developers, which is also a problem. Mastercoin developers said Ethereum model is way less sustainable than it looks at first glance because of the many security issues they will have to face. Most investors that put money at work with these "efforts" are mostly unaware of all these facts and they need to be made aware to see Mastercoin as the only real option in this space.

Even though mismanaged, Mastercoin is the only game in town in the 2.0 space, considering all the Mastercoin smart apps which are on their way. That's the message that needs to get out, not some pampering and hand holding with all the cloned rip-offs, which sucked precious knowledge from Mastercoin, on Mastercoin investor money, like a bunch of leeches before parting ways.

All you guys need to step away and let Ron call the shots. He's by far the most capable of the whole bunch.