YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL

[solitude]

I didn't bother contacting BFL or filing an official dispute through Paypal because I knew the outcome of both

I simply called Paypal and explained how BFL was scamming everyone, was told they couldn't do anything because outside 45 days, I bitched and moaned some more, they opened dispute

BFL had like 11 days to prove they shipped me a miner, and they ignored the claim.  I was refunded afterwards.

Don't give up when they give you the "outside 45 day" nonsense.

And stop buying asic preorders, tehy're all scams 100% guaranteed.

That last line is crap. Sounds like you got your refund through pure bludgeoning Paypal until they conceded, I don't know when you placed your order, but if it was after march this year and in any case if it has taken you this long for a refund, more fool you for not performing any due diligence.

Sure if you consider "bludgeoning" to be on the phone with one single paypal rep telling them how I've been a paypal customer since forever.  I guess I'm just persuasive because I ordered back in Februrary.

Also ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully.  It's not in these cocksuckers best interest to ship you your ASIC anytime soon, and since they don't have to, they won't.

Given the time-sensitive nature of bitcoin miners, pre-ordering them with no honest-to-god guarantee of delivery date is fucking retarded.

The whole situation is disgusting, taking advantage of peoples greed and making empty promises of shipping dates which never happen.

The only thing shipping is some shitty block erupter which won't even make ROI ever, yet people still buy it.

[1715090712]

1715090712

[1715090712]

1715090712

[1715090712]

1715090712

[Xian01]

ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully. 

 I don't understand what you mean by this.

 Bitcoin ASIC's are most definitely not a scam.

 Perhaps some companies are scams, but to say that Bitcoin ASIC's are a scam is not accurate.

[Unacceptable]

ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully.

 I don't understand what you mean by this.

 Bitcoin ASIC's are most definitely not a scam.

 Perhaps some companies are scams, but to say that Bitcoin ASIC's are a scam is not accurate.

In a way they are,the more that is bought by the public,the more YOU need to buy to keep in the game & it will never end  

I've done the math,I'd need to double MY hashrate every 500-750TH .....................

I'm buying myself,when someone can produce in a decent time frame,like buy it now,get it now.......not 6 months to a year or more later  

[Bitcoinorama]

ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully.

 I don't understand what you mean by this.

 Bitcoin ASIC's are most definitely not a scam.

 Perhaps some companies are scams, but to say that Bitcoin ASIC's are a scam is not accurate.

In a way they are,the more that is bought by the public,the more YOU need to buy to keep in the game & it will never end  

I've done the math,I'd need to double MY hashrate every 500-750TH .....................

I'm buying myself,when someone can produce in a decent time frame,like buy it now,get it now.......not 6 months to a year or more later  

Supply and demand, only because human greed outweighs the need to research and make an informed choice.

You either find means for cheap electricity at somepoint or walk away...

[Lohoris]

The whole situation is disgusting, taking advantage of peoples greed and making empty promises of shipping dates which never happen.

Greed make people stupid, and while it is still wrong to exploit that, they are both equally at fault.
The exploiters because they are evil, and the greedy because they shut down their brain and fuck you should never do that, or you at least partly deserve what happens to you.

[ECore]

   I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer.   

[CoinHoarder]

  I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer.   

lol, good point

[dudeofthestick]

Just sent an email to fraud@paypal.com explaining everything.

I asked for a refund to BFL and they rejected. Then I filed a Dispute in PayPal and was rejected because of the 45 days window. Let's try now with the email to fraud.

If I get a refund I will inform you.

[Bitcoinorama]

 I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer.  

I find it ironic that a group of people slate a company for holding their money hostage, when the only person holding their money hostage is themselves.

Truly, it shows the level of research people are willing to do before investing in these companies, or anything of that matter is none. None at all.

Far easier to throw around the word scam over and over and exhaust yourself mentally believing you're funds are being held hostage, than to call your bank and have a reasonable conversation with the last in the fraud dept of your ccard and state this transaction is well overdue from the original anticipated date of delivery and get a refund there. It's what you pay APR of 15+% on the things for!

[vcsmith]

Just sent an email to fraud@paypal.com explaining everything.

I asked for a refund to BFL and they rejected. Then I filed a Dispute in PayPal and was rejected because of the 45 days window. Let's try now with the email to fraud.

If I get a refund I will inform you.

Not to tell you what to do, but I also called PayPal's Customer Service and complained about the dispute being closed.  I think the fact that I hit them from every angle helped my case.

Good luck!

[yurtesen]

FWIW, there was one thing in this ordeal that really rubbed me the wrong way...

When Bruce from BFL called, he made the "under review" status sound like a punishment for my complaining to PayPal. He seemed surprised that I didn't care about being taken out of the queue. I think that was the only card they had.

Again, don't take this lying down. If you want your money back, take it.

You should have just said that if they shipped your units right away, you will give up inquiring about the refund

[Xian01]

Truly, it shows the level of research people are willing to do before investing in these companies, or anything of that matter is none. None at all.

 Between this comment, and your unwavering support for KNC, I'm beginning to have a hard time taking anything you say here seriously.

[GodHatesFigs]

Great news; well done!

[millsdmb]

 I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer.  

even more ironic that I just purchased a block erupter in a group buy that only takes paypal. And there, one or two people cried "SCAM!"

As I said in that thread, tho...escrow is what Paypal does best. As a long time seller and buyer, ive gotten both refunds and chargebacks. Geting more involved in bitcoin, it becomes increasingly evident that this is an area that remains in need of some improvement.

[k9quaint]

Truly, it shows the level of research people are willing to do before investing in these companies, or anything of that matter is none. None at all.

 Between this comment, and your unwavering support for KNC, I'm beginning to have a hard time taking anything you say here seriously.

To my knowledge, KNC has not missed a date or performance target yet. Yes, their plan is very audacious and we have very little visibility into their development process (as opposed to an open source project for instance). I am willing to give KNC the benefit of the doubt until they actually fail to deliver on a promise. I am tempted to order KNC gear, however I have not yet because they are not far enough along to satisfy my strict criteria for purchase from a mining equipment vendor.

In short, I think the jury is still out on KNC.

[dhenson]

Just sent an email to fraud@paypal.com explaining everything.

I asked for a refund to BFL and they rejected. Then I filed a Dispute in PayPal and was rejected because of the 45 days window. Let's try now with the email to fraud.

If I get a refund I will inform you.

You'll have better luck with a phone call.  It worked for me.

[millsdmb]

Just sent an email to fraud@paypal.com explaining everything.

I asked for a refund to BFL and they rejected. Then I filed a Dispute in PayPal and was rejected because of the 45 days window. Let's try now with the email to fraud.

If I get a refund I will inform you.

You'll have better luck with a phone call.  It worked for me.

unless they say no, then you need in writing for paypal dispute.

[vcsmith]

FWIW, there was one thing in this ordeal that really rubbed me the wrong way...

When Bruce from BFL called, he made the "under review" status sound like a punishment for my complaining to PayPal. He seemed surprised that I didn't care about being taken out of the queue. I think that was the only card they had.

Again, don't take this lying down. If you want your money back, take it.

You should have just said that if they shipped your units right away, you will give up inquiring about the refund

I appreciate your opinion, but...

At this time I have no further interest in any BFL product. I have no faith in their ability to deliver, and I have no faith in their desire to provide ongoing customer service (i.e. warranty). I was tired of their delay tactics, and sick of watching the way their officers conduct themselves in public. BFL showed me one thing: They are not the type of company that I want to do business with.

I just wanted my money back, plain and simple.

In the end, I got it.

[Xialla]

well, this is win.

[millsdmb]

well, this is win.

Agreed. I think im going to go drop my entire "Bill me Later" available credit on BFL units via Paypal =D