YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL

[amencon]

Yes that is simple.  Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware? 

I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.

I'd be surprised if they did.  I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows.  If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up.

One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law.

Yes that is good. We need to take that one step further and work together and push these companies further and expect them to refund when requested or send in official complaints to the relevant authorities. Avalon or BFL both have exposure here legally and that is where we can apply pressure.

BFL = Shady.

I've haven't given BFL or Avalon any money, however I support whatever people can do to get bitcoin companies to behave in better interest of their customers.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Yes that is simple.  Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware? 

I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.

I'd be surprised if they did.  I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows.  If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up.

One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law.

Yes that is good. We need to take that one step further and work together and push these companies further and expect them to refund when requested or send in official complaints to the relevant authorities. Avalon or BFL both have exposure here legally and that is where we can apply pressure.

BFL = Shady.

I've haven't given BFL or Avalon any money, however I support whatever people can do to get bitcoin companies to behave in better interest of their customers.

[Bicknellski]

Spread the word...

As you are doing. Help out the people stuck in this whirlpool just as good.

BFL = Shady.

[jdape]

• I sent an email to fraud@paypal.com in which I listed my transaction and dispute number, and explained how BFL is violating the ToS.

FYI, that email address isn't accepting fraud complaints at this time.  Instead you can send your information/request to aup@paypal.com.

I spent a couple hours on the phone with various 'supervisors' in the paypal business services department.  They will mostly say 'since you are past the 45 day windows, there's nothing we can do' over and over.  But if you keep pointing out how BFL/TerraHash/other naughty ASIC company/ is violating their terms of service, committing mail/wire fraud, violating FTC regulations etc. they will eventually cave and open a case for a refund.

[jdape]

I followed up my phone calls with an email that looked like this:

Code:

My company sent these two payments to TerraHash, Inc. via PayPal
 
 
TXID: ##
 
Invoice ID:	 	WC-###
Date:	 	Jun ##, ####
Time:	 	##:##:## PDT
 
-$#,###.## USD

TXID: ##
Invoice ID:	 	WC-###
Date:	 	Jun ##, ####
Time:	 	##:##:## PDT
-$#,###.## USD
 
 
 
The payments were for pre-sale computer hardware which was to be shipped by August ##th, ####.  The computer hardware has not been shipped and no shipping timeline is known at this time.
 
I have contacted TerraHash and requested refunds on August ##, ####.  TerraHash has not replied to my requests as of August ##, ####.
 
I believe TerraHash is violating the following PayPal Policies:
 
 (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, 
Breach any law, statute, contract, or regulation 
 
#.# b) Breach any law, statute, contract, or regulation .
 
TerraHash is required by the Federal Trade Commission to issue a refund upon request since they have not shipped any product.  No sale has been made.
 
#.# l)
Conduct your business or use the Services in a manner that results in or may result in complaints, Disputes, Claims, Reversals, Chargebacks, fees, fines, penalties and other liability to PayPal, a User, a third party or you;
 
TerraHash has a huge number of people complaining in the BitCoin community and there is going to be a huge rash of chargebacks and complaints very shortly as they are no where near delivering on their promises to their customers.
 
 
TerraHash has violated your terms of service which clearly state that the seller "Guarantees shipment within ## days from the date of purchase".  This applies to pre-sale items.
 
 
Please refund my payments.  
 
Thanks for taking the time to review my request. You can contact me via email or one of the phone numbers below.
 

[Street Jammer]

such a crap guys they wont refund , they wont ship wtf does that mean ?

And gaypal supports it

[PuertoLibre]

What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?

[Flying Hellfish]

What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?

Yifu happened to TH.

[uski]

Hi,

Just got a refund a few days ago.

I started a PayPal dispute at day 44 (I ordered and knew that if they did not ship by 45 days I will start a dispute on time).

I do not consider the rate at which they are shipping to be really shipping, because they lied on their shipping rates.
I don't have ANY problem with getting a refund by any mean under those circumstances.

And it's funny because BFL just announced the Monarch - I won't order from them but there is a shift toward more powerful devices, so I'm glad I got my money back.

I will NEVER AGAIN order from BFL. In 10+ years doing online e-commerce I've never seen people behaving like them.
The people in the BFL forums are like affected by the Stockholm syndrome : every time there is the slightest hope for something positive, they all get happy, and they don't see the big picture.

uski

[Lohoris]

i did that a couple of weeks ago, i got the standard "No" form letter. I really want my equipment more than the money though so i let it ride for now.

And that's why con men never go out of business... there's always some clueless fool.

[Bicknellski]

CrashX Small Claims Court solutions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279404.msg2985403#msg2985403

[PuertoLibre]

What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?

Yifu happened to TH.

Could you be a bit more specific? Link?

[Bicknellski]

What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?

Yifu happened to TH.

Could you be a bit more specific? Link?

He means we are ALL waiting for the million chips to arrive in the mail... still no sign. No ROI and now people are selling off lots of 10K at 50% off... oh that be the issue for any DIY team right now. Most will probably implode in the next week or two as a result. Sad.

Specifically check out any of the DIY thread or group chip buys... it is starting to get ugly.

[bcp19]

What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?

Yifu happened to TH.

Could you be a bit more specific? Link?

He means we are ALL waiting for the million chips to arrive in the mail... still no sign. No ROI and now people are selling off lots of 10K at 50% off... oh that be the issue for any DIY team right now. Most will probably implode in the next week or two as a result. Sad.

Specifically check out any of the DIY thread or group chip buys... it is starting to get ugly.

This is what I love most.  Start-up after start-up fails yet people cling to the next new thing out there and denounce everything else.  Everybody uses the LONG CON example on BFL.  Ok, so maybe they are a long con, does that make every other company legit?  ASICMiner shares have plummeted over 30% of their value in a week... what do the shareholder know we don't?  At this monent in time they have mined 8% of the current blocks in the last 24 hours.  8% of 3825 or 306 BTC which is ~30k not bad... untill you consider 210k per week divided among 400k shares = less than .0057 BTC per share BEFORE expenses, yet somehow they paid out .0123BTC per share.  Maybe this is the beginning of the deathknell and they are scraping every last dime from thier USB sticks, maybe not.  Avalon... B1 YAY... B2 YAY... B3... ok, maybe yea... Chips... WTF DUDE?  Now Labcoin... IPO and poof it appears,  Terrahash appears screwed by Avalon.  Liquid Synergy is screwed cause of Avalon.  BPM is screwed cause of Avalon.  KnC - Sept shipping.  Hashfast - October shipping.  Cointerra - December shipping.  That pretty much leaves BitFury.  They're supposed to have 90+TH on their network pool, 50TH of that in 5 days and now https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=280375.0  2 month delay.

I guess at this moment the only TRUE option is ASICMiner, and with their prices, they got you by the balls.

[k9quaint]

This is what I love most.  Start-up after start-up fails yet people cling to the next new thing out there and denounce everything else.  Everybody uses the LONG CON example on BFL.  Ok, so maybe they are a long con, does that make every other company legit?  

No, but BFL has been giving new schedules and then failing to meet them for months on end now. Also, they are insulting and dismissive of any and all complaints. Those are two very serious red flags for scams, so many people think BFL is a scam.

The 100TH/s mining pool delay was due to their boards that they designed having issues, not Bitfury chips having issues. There are several deployments of Bitfury that are successful.
Avalon has failed to get their chips into the hands of developers of a lot of the English speaking DIY. There have been photos of Avalon chip batches arriving from multiple sources but there is no getting around the fact that a large chunk of DIY projects are ruined by the delay. It is impossible to know the cause of the delay at this time, but eventually more evidence will come to light and then we can start speculating. Right now, all that I am aware of is the chips supposedly left Yifu's hands but never arrived in the customers.

[bcp19]

This is what I love most.  Start-up after start-up fails yet people cling to the next new thing out there and denounce everything else.  Everybody uses the LONG CON example on BFL.  Ok, so maybe they are a long con, does that make every other company legit?  

No, but BFL has been giving new schedules and then failing to meet them for months on end now. Also, they are insulting and dismissive of any and all complaints. Those are two very serious red flags for scams, so many people think BFL is a scam.

The 100TH/s mining pool delay was due to their boards that they designed having issues, not Bitfury chips having issues. There are several deployments of Bitfury that are successful.
Avalon has failed to get their chips into the hands of developers of a lot of the English speaking DIY. There have been photos of Avalon chip batches arriving from multiple sources but there is no getting around the fact that a large chunk of DIY projects are ruined by the delay. It is impossible to know the cause of the delay at this time, but eventually more evidence will come to light and then we can start speculating. Right now, all that I am aware of is the chips supposedly left Yifu's hands but never arrived in the customers.

Yet 150TH of those chips are on the network.

[k9quaint]

This is what I love most.  Start-up after start-up fails yet people cling to the next new thing out there and denounce everything else.  Everybody uses the LONG CON example on BFL.  Ok, so maybe they are a long con, does that make every other company legit?  

No, but BFL has been giving new schedules and then failing to meet them for months on end now. Also, they are insulting and dismissive of any and all complaints. Those are two very serious red flags for scams, so many people think BFL is a scam.

The 100TH/s mining pool delay was due to their boards that they designed having issues, not Bitfury chips having issues. There are several deployments of Bitfury that are successful.
Avalon has failed to get their chips into the hands of developers of a lot of the English speaking DIY. There have been photos of Avalon chip batches arriving from multiple sources but there is no getting around the fact that a large chunk of DIY projects are ruined by the delay. It is impossible to know the cause of the delay at this time, but eventually more evidence will come to light and then we can start speculating. Right now, all that I am aware of is the chips supposedly left Yifu's hands but never arrived in the customers.

Yet 150TH of those chips are on the network.

Which chips?

[bcp19]

This is what I love most.  Start-up after start-up fails yet people cling to the next new thing out there and denounce everything else.  Everybody uses the LONG CON example on BFL.  Ok, so maybe they are a long con, does that make every other company legit?  

No, but BFL has been giving new schedules and then failing to meet them for months on end now. Also, they are insulting and dismissive of any and all complaints. Those are two very serious red flags for scams, so many people think BFL is a scam.

The 100TH/s mining pool delay was due to their boards that they designed having issues, not Bitfury chips having issues. There are several deployments of Bitfury that are successful.
Avalon has failed to get their chips into the hands of developers of a lot of the English speaking DIY. There have been photos of Avalon chip batches arriving from multiple sources but there is no getting around the fact that a large chunk of DIY projects are ruined by the delay. It is impossible to know the cause of the delay at this time, but eventually more evidence will come to light and then we can start speculating. Right now, all that I am aware of is the chips supposedly left Yifu's hands but never arrived in the customers.

Yet 150TH of those chips are on the network.

Which chips?

[PuertoLibre]

What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?

Yifu happened to TH.

Could you be a bit more specific? Link?

He means we are ALL waiting for the million chips to arrive in the mail... still no sign. No ROI and now people are selling off lots of 10K at 50% off... oh that be the issue for any DIY team right now. Most will probably implode in the next week or two as a result. Sad.

Specifically check out any of the DIY thread or group chip buys... it is starting to get ugly.

Oh sorry about that, I didn't notice that TerraHash was a DIY based on Avalon.

Only 50% reduction? Buyers should hold out for alot less.

I will go check out the Group Buys.

[PuertoLibre]

What has happened with BFL chips? Were they on time?