YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL

[Fiyasko]

So it begins. The DA has opened a case against BFL http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1l5oz5/kansas_ag_replied_to_my_consumer_protection/

sic em boy

This took WAY too long, Sonny's probation is almost over, Fucker is going to get off with another tiny fine and warning

[opello]

Of the FTC, KC AG, and KC BBB, the KC BBB was the only organization (so far) to actually service my complaint.

Sadly, today they administratively closed my complaint, citing that they had made a good faith effort to resolve the complaint.  So I called them up, and spoke with the person assigned to my case (Lauren) and she told me that the BBB's investigator had decided that BFL was not doing anything wrong, and that they were going to wait until after September 30 to take further action.  I didn't understand why this was the case, and didn't get a very detailed answer when I asked, other than that September 30 was given to the BBB by BFL.  My first piece of correspondence with BFL through the BBB included that date as well, as the current estimate for most of the backlog to be fulfilled.  But that was the first I'd heard that date.

So I have an open question to the investigator about why BFL is considered to have done everything above board when they didn't give definite shipping dates, and also didn't give another chance to receive a refund after failing to meet "two months" after May 1 (when orders were reconfirmed for the chassis change).

I guess I'll wait for the investigator's reply, but it seems like based on the BBB's response, the AG is the next step.

[BTCscraper]

I had the opportunity to reply to BFL's response to the BBB, and I did state that "2 months or more" is not a definite date according to FTC rules, and that denial of refund requests also runs contrary to FTC rules.  So if BBB closes my complaint, it will be marked as complainant unsatisfied.  Maybe BBB personnel should take a refresher course on the FTC mail order rules.

[Bicknellski]

I had the opportunity to reply to BFL's response to the BBB, and I did state that "2 months or more" is not a definite date according to FTC rules, and that denial of refund requests also runs contrary to FTC rules.  So if BBB closes my complaint, it will be marked as complainant unsatisfied.  Maybe BBB personnel should take a refresher course on the FTC mail order rules.

They should read their own standards for businesses and then really be given all the information including the posts here in this forum where Josh has been abusive. They have failed on many areas of the BBB standards if one were to seek accreditation from the BBB.

Just keep sending in the evidence... it will all be compiled every bit counts.

Given what we have seen from BFL they would fail on each standard outlined.

http://www.bbb.org/us/bbb-accreditation-standards/

[10btc]

Thank you for share those information, hope we can get the money back soon

[scambutterflylabs]

Hi to Bitcoin forum.

This note is for the people out there who want to get a refund from Butterfly Labs.

I just wanted to say that I ordered 2 products from Butterfly Labs last month (August 5, 2013). I had no prior knowledge of their business. I changed my mind about my two orders once I learned more about their backlog of orders and business model.

Two days ago BFL gave me a refund through paypal and my credit card. It was pretty straightforward and extremely simple. It took one phone call, one email to BFL to confirm that they would not give me a refund, a copy and paste of their reply into my paypal dispute, and a waiting period of about 4 days. BFL has been saying all last month that they aren't giving refunds, ....but I got mine.

If you used a credit card and paypal for your orders, and you still want a refund, hopefully you can get the same smooth experience.

Sincerely,
Temuujin

[vulgartrendkill]

I emailed the president of paypal and got a telephone call from a member of the "executive issue resolution team" who assured me they will do all they can to obtain a refund for me on my orders from BFL. Fingers crossed.

[BTCscraper]

I emailed the president of paypal and got a telephone call from a member of the "executive issue resolution team" who assured me they will do all they can to obtain a refund for me on my orders from BFL. Fingers crossed.

You also need to tell them that you're not the only one who paid using Paypal and is asking for a refund.  The other nondelivery reports are being auto-closed by Paypal for being over their 45-day rule, but if they had someone check on those auto-closed reports, they will see so many complaints.

[vulgartrendkill]

I emailed the president of paypal and got a telephone call from a member of the "executive issue resolution team" who assured me they will do all they can to obtain a refund for me on my orders from BFL. Fingers crossed.

You also need to tell them that you're not the only one who paid using Paypal and is asking for a refund.  The other nondelivery reports are being auto-closed by Paypal for being over their 45-day rule, but if they had someone check on those auto-closed reports, they will see so many complaints.

The person did say that although closed, all reports will be looked into.  I did advise him I was by far not the only one.  Should hear back soon!

[polarhei]

I used to order 10Gh/s from them, but they have failed to provide exact date for shipping out .

I place a complain after two weeks as I think the being should be ready within 45 days. If over than the moment, then you will not be able to do anything.

[scambutterflylabs]

One good reason for a refund:

It's even bleaker for BFL now. That comparison is the Bitfury 1st batch pricing. The next batch pricing for Oct delivery is only $20/GH

[darkfriend77]

PayPal claims ... that im out of the 45-day period.

Anyone had success with out starting a CC charge back ... after the 45-day period?

And how?

Thx.

CC charge back isn't possible as it was tooken from paypal funds i had.

[dhenson]

PayPal claims ... that im out of the 45-day period.

Anyone had success with out starting a CC charge back ... after the 45-day period?

And how?

Thx.

CC charge back isn't possible as it was tooken from paypal funds i had.

I got the same story from Paypal using their online dispute system.  I then called and once they saw how old my account was they made an exception and reversed the charge.  The only advice I can give is to be polite but resolute.  If you hit a wall, call back and talk to someone else.

Persistence pays.

[ethought]

I just called Paypal.

The first guy I spoke to was not in the disputes department but he straight out told me that it is possible to get a refund from Paypal outside of the 45 day period.

He then put me through to the disputes department who were not quite as friendly.

At first they told me the usual - disputes are not possible outside the 45 day period. I insisted that others had been getting refunds and so should I. I said many many people had had problems with Paypal and had been requesting and receiving refunds.

They told me they would file a dispute but that it would be automatically closed as it was more than 45 days - I don't see why they do that at all if it just automatically gets cancelled.

I then asked to speak to a supervisor but was told I could not and there was nothing more they could do.

I then played my final card and asked to speak to Aaron (employee id #45731 from Terrahash refund post) - I was then put on hold for several minutes. When the woman finally came back on the phone she said she had spoken to the supervisor and they would review the BF Labs accounts as I said many people had had the same problem - and if they saw a problem I would receive an email with their decision and then hopefully get my refund..

If it doesn't work I am going to be on the phone to them daily until it does.  &%$& BFL!

[darkfriend77]

We need to gather the transactions which where called to be refunded / disputed ... which are refunded through PayPal and the appropriate user, this way each of us can send those


I just called them... after

1. eMail to butterfly labs which got answered by a "No - refund" after 7 days.
2. opened a dispute in PayPal for the appropriate transaction, which got closed because of "45-day" passed.
3. send an other eMail to PayPal trying to get a dispute for that transaction, same answer "your out of 45-day".
4. called PayPal dispute center, got a call center employee which insisted 25 min about the past 45-day period i missed.
5. I asked for a supervisor, which told me after an other 10 min of conversation he is gona put my conflict for a closer look to the an office which checks if there are more of those complaints with this company "BFL".

6. waiting now 

Why we don't just gather all Transaction-ID's which got refunded, opened to dispute ... this list would show how many people really are affected by the BFL fraud ... and would get us something to show to PayPal ... the more we are, the more power we have ! At least we could stop PayPal to work with BFL!

Let's start by this ...

Code:

                                                                             +----------------+------------------------------------------------------+
                                                                             | Butterfly labs |                       PayPal                         |
+--------------------+--------------+----------------------------------------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------------+---------------+--------+
| Unique ID          | Date         | Amount    | Device ordred              | email | Refund | email | phone | Buyer-Prot. | CC ChargeBack | Refund |
+--------------------+--------------+----------------------------------------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------------+---------------+--------+
| #8CU60716HR286741V | 28. May 2013 | $362.00   | 1 x 5 GH/s Bitcoin Miner   | Yes   | No     | Yes   | Yes   | No          | No            | No     |
+--------------------+--------------+----------------------------------------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------------+---------------+--------+
|                    |              |                                        |       |        |       |       |             |               |        |
+--------------------+--------------+----------------------------------------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------------+---------------+--------+

[vulgartrendkill]

update everyone.

I just received this email from paypal:

BF Labs Inc. just sent you a full refund of $2,675.00 USD for your purchase.

It may take 3-5 working days to receive the refund in your PayPal account.

If you have any questions about this refund, please contact BF Labs Inc..

The refund will go to the card you paid with.

To see all the transaction details, please log in to your PayPal account. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Merchant information
BF Labs Inc.
support@butterflylabs.com
http://www.butterflylabs.com
913-271-6744
Note from merchant
None provided

So yeah, don`t lose hope

[zaki]

if I paid with bitcoin, how do I get refund from bfl. I mailed them, they denied my request.

thanks for help.

[Threader]

[vulgartrendkill]

if I paid with bitcoin, how do I get refund from bfl. I mailed them, they denied my request.

thanks for help.

Your best bet is to sell your pre order on. sad but true.

[ipxtreme]

thanks for the info. What is the president's email address for paypal? PM me if you dont want to post it here.

update everyone.

I just received this email from paypal:

BF Labs Inc. just sent you a full refund of $2,675.00 USD for your purchase.

It may take 3-5 working days to receive the refund in your PayPal account.

If you have any questions about this refund, please contact BF Labs Inc..

The refund will go to the card you paid with.

To see all the transaction details, please log in to your PayPal account. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Merchant information
BF Labs Inc.
support@butterflylabs.com
http://www.butterflylabs.com
913-271-6744
Note from merchant
None provided

So yeah, don`t lose hope