YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL

[vulgartrendkill]

I've been trying to help my friend through this process, and it has hit a problem I haven't seen before. Paypal sided with my friend and said that BFL needed to refund the money. BFL has marked his order as cancelled in their system. Now Paypal tried to get the money back to send to my friend, but there was no money in the account they were drawing on. This is the letter that Paypal sent to my friend.

Hello *** ******,

The refund sent by Sonny Vleisides (office@butterflylabs.com) did not clear from the sender's bank. You have not received funds for this payment in your PayPal account.

Please contact Sonny Vleisides regarding this refund.




-----------------------------------
Refund details:
-----------------------------------


Amount: $****** USD
Sender: Sonny Vleisides
Sender's email: office@butterflylabs.com
Transaction ID: ********
Transaction date: Oct 11, 2013

Anyone have any ideas on where to go from here? He kind of feel like this is like issuing a bad check and thinks that there might be some kind of attorney general he could go to.

Just as an update to this, sometime last week, the account got money in it and my friend was paid. He said that paypal just kept hitting the account (with the subsequent NSF charges, I'm sure) until there was money there.

Except... none of it ever happened.  Cool story, though, bro!

Josh, what the hell?  You guys still have $500 of my money for an 'upgrade' that no longer exists, and yet here you are defending your company's actions in the most uncalled for manner. 

Do your bit for customer service and refund.

[1713554719]

1713554719

[1713554719]

1713554719

[southerngentuk]

Josh, what the hell?  You guys still have $500 of my money for an 'upgrade' that no longer exists, and yet here you are defending your company's actions in the most uncalled for manner. 

Do your bit for customer service and refund.

Joshie, please tell, how does BFL Intend to resolve such issues.

A) Run off with the guys money.
B) Supply a free miner to attach the upgrade to.
C) Refund

Its a simple question, why don't you answer the guy.. 

[vulgartrendkill]

Josh, what the hell?  You guys still have $500 of my money for an 'upgrade' that no longer exists, and yet here you are defending your company's actions in the most uncalled for manner. 

Do your bit for customer service and refund.

Joshie, please tell, how does BFL Intend to resolve such issues.

A) Run off with the guys money.
B) Supply a free miner to attach the upgrade to.
C) Refund

Its a simple question, why don't you answer the guy.. 

They offered me a 'credit' onto my account for my next order.  However, I pointed out that I do not wish to have a 'credit' or indeed order from them again, and they went silent.

No matter, I have my banks fraud team on the case.

I have it in writing that you have received my money, BFL.  I also have it in writing that you were going to either process me a refund in BTC or bank transfer.  Then, another of your 'colleagues' changed their mind.

Companies don't act the way BFL do.  Fraudsters, however....

You may have a product, and you may have manufacturing difficulties, but that does not excuse you acting like a complete a hole.

[southerngentuk]

Ahhh credit, I see, well thats just damn unlawful.

Do I need to post that FTC guidance again for you Joshie.

 

[m3sSh3aD]

Josssshhhhh the dirty scumbag cockroach! He'd fuck his gran over so why do you think he gives a shit about 'customers' and what kind of company hires someone like this prick as there coo! Seriously, banish this cockroach!

[darkmule]

Josssshhhhh the dirty scumbag cockroach! He'd fuck his gran over so why do you think he gives a shit about 'customers' and what kind of company hires someone like this prick as there coo! Seriously, banish this cockroach!

BFL pays for ads.  That's all this site cares about.

[Lohoris]

BFL pays for ads.  That's all this site cares about.

Wrong.
What if it was the Silk Road paying for ads, that would have been ok?
Sure it bears no risk at all?

[darkmule]

BFL pays for ads.  That's all this site cares about.

Wrong.
What if it was the Silk Road paying for ads, that would have been ok?
Sure it bears no risk at all?

I'd have been totally fine with Silk Road paying for ads.  Unlike BFL, Silk Road vendors actually delivered what they sold.  Taking money for BFL ads is basically stealing.

[Lohoris]

I'd have been totally fine with Silk Road paying for ads.  Unlike BFL, Silk Road vendors actually delivered what they sold.  Taking money for BFL ads is basically stealing.

Oh, I see, we agree here, I misread you.

[m3sSh3aD]

I'd have been totally fine with Silk Road paying for ads.  Unlike BFL, Silk Road vendors actually delivered what they sold.  Taking money for BFL ads is basically stealing.

Oh, I see, we agree here, I misread you.

^^

Josh is just a dirty cockroach, hang him with the Rothschild's!

[Xian01]

BFL pays for ads.  That's all this site cares about.

Wrong.
What if it was the Silk Road paying for ads, that would have been ok?
Sure it bears no risk at all?

I'd have been totally fine with Silk Road paying for ads.

 Is that a damning indictment or what ? Silk Road was more reliable and respected than Butterfly Labs.

[lajz99]

Why hasn't anyone squashed the cockroach?

[southerngentuk]

Why hasn't anyone squashed the cockroach?

If everyone with an outstanding order refuses to accept the package (no big loss these days). Then that cockroach will be gently squeezed, harder and harder as more and more packages are returned.

What will BFL do, keep the money ? that would be fraud.
Keep re-posting and costing them $$$$ ?
All sales are final,   When they have been delivered !

If you have requested a refund, BFL owes you a refund, if they do not, they are acting unlawfully and when the FTC actually get around to them they will deal with them appropriately. I Hope.

[Lohoris]

If you have requested a refund, BFL owes you a refund, if they do not, they are acting unlawfully and when the FTC actually get around to them they will deal with them appropriately. I Hope.

And yet, people keep waiting.
People are stupid

[m3sSh3aD]

If you have requested a refund, BFL owes you a refund, if they do not, they are acting unlawfully and when the FTC actually get around to them they will deal with them appropriately. I Hope.

And yet, people keep waiting.
People are stupid

^^ THIS!

But people are waking up to the shit hole we've made for ourselves and eventually they'll see the emperor as no clothes

[th3joker]

PayPal refused me a refund, usual 45 days rubbish, I did a chargeback for my first order and the credit card company put the money straight back into my account within about 5 days. Bit of a pain to organise but worth it.

I've asked BFL to refund the other orders or I'll have to do the same for them too.

[th3joker]

PayPal refused me a refund, usual 45 days rubbish, I did a chargeback for my first order and the credit card company put the money straight back into my account within about 5 days. Bit of a pain to organise but worth it.

I've asked BFL to refund the other orders or I'll have to do the same for them too.

How do you charge back your order on your credit card company if you payed with your balance? (I ask the question because I payed with my paypal balance)

You have to take paypal to court, difficult but not impossible. It's under £100 in the UK and Paypal invariably settle the day of the case or a few days beforehand. But they like to leave it until the last minute. You can claim expenses and costs via the court so it won't cost anything once they pay up. If they offer less tell them to do one :-)

There are a number of successful cases on other forums if you need addresses for documentation etc. Google taking paypal to court in your country.

[m3sSh3aD]

PayPal refused me a refund, usual 45 days rubbish, I did a chargeback for my first order and the credit card company put the money straight back into my account within about 5 days. Bit of a pain to organise but worth it.

I've asked BFL to refund the other orders or I'll have to do the same for them too.

How do you charge back your order on your credit card company if you payed with your balance? (I ask the question because I payed with my paypal balance)

You have to take paypal to court, difficult but not impossible. It's under £100 in the UK and Paypal invariably settle the day of the case or a few days beforehand. But they like to leave it until the last minute. You can claim expenses and costs via the court so it won't cost anything once they pay up. If they offer less tell them to do one :-)

There are a number of successful cases on other forums if you need addresses for documentation etc. Google taking paypal to court in your country.

Because PayPal use the same tactics as prenda/bailiffs/tax people... All illegal practices and when stood up to using the right legalbe's they all back down. Thee BBC fuck off as soon as you record them when they come knocking., you'd think they were all a pedophile ring or something.... O wait, they are!

The whole 'system' people live in works this way, people just don't wantnto open there eyes to the reality that all monarchs, Rothschild's, Rockefeller's and the rest of them are satanic pedophile whores who sold there beliefs and minds to the so called 'devil' trying not to put religion into it. But they believe in Satan so therefore they believe in son of god and god and all that right?

There real messed up people and there a cult. Bfl & josh are cut from the same clothe! This is why there all cockroaches! Dirty cockroaches! Scum of the earth, plaugue of the earth! That's the one!

[pontiacg5]

PayPal refused me a refund, usual 45 days rubbish, I did a chargeback for my first order and the credit card company put the money straight back into my account within about 5 days. Bit of a pain to organise but worth it.

I've asked BFL to refund the other orders or I'll have to do the same for them too.

How do you charge back your order on your credit card company if you payed with your balance? (I ask the question because I payed with my paypal balance)

You have to take paypal to court, difficult but not impossible. It's under £100 in the UK and Paypal invariably settle the day of the case or a few days beforehand. But they like to leave it until the last minute. You can claim expenses and costs via the court so it won't cost anything once they pay up. If they offer less tell them to do one :-)

There are a number of successful cases on other forums if you need addresses for documentation etc. Google taking paypal to court in your country.

I believe paypal sneakily interjected a forced arbitration into the TOS a while back, if you didn't opt out you probably can't sue paypal at least in the US.

Or you could go through the arbitration, arguing with a lawyer paypal hires and pays. See how far that gets you.

[Lohoris]

I believe paypal sneakily interjected a forced arbitration into the TOS a while back

Please always remember that what's written in a contract is not automatically legal.