Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon

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The hotel room analogy is lolzy, but for slightly different reasons; i'll ftfy:
You call to book a hotel room to find out that there's no hotel yet -- there's only the contractor's kid, who's real clever with tools & swears up & down he'll build the hotel by the time you arrive.  His dad, who has built stuff before (cars, not hotels) promised to help him.
You go ahead and place the reservation -- if the place isn't there when you show up, the CC will cover it.  Death to bankers!

Considering my two main banks are;
[...why your banks are dirtbags...]

Finally we get down to it:  You feel justified in scamming your banks because they deserve it -- they're scammers themselves.  
You're colluding with likely scammers to defraud the scammy banks.  Best of luck, but keep in mind that most confidence tricks rely on the mark believing he's not the mark, but a shrewd & cunning member of the crew  

Ok I know you troll, sometimes as in this thread actually providing substance at points.

But what don't you get about consumer protection and the usarious fees charged upon credit card purchases they encourage you to make?

Let's clear up a few more things:

The usurious fees charged by CC companies are *saintly* compared to percentages charged for bitcoin loans on this very forum.
Further, if you pay your bills on time, there *are no fees to you, the consumer.*  An equivalent to getting a free loan, for a month!  As they say, none better at twice the price.
I'd love to borrow BTC at those usurious rates -- anyone lending?

I do have a huge amount of faith in KnC which is more than superficial as I've met everyone involved, and seen what they are capable of. Is there still inherent risk, of course. There could be a delay, but they will make and produce a chip capable of hashing.

Likewise, as this is the Cointerra thread, on paper these guys are credible, hopefully someone will visit. If I was to consider them I might take a jolly to Austin, sign an NDA (which for all intents and purposes is entirely worthless), and see what they are capable of.

To claim I'm undertaking fraud as I acknowledge there could be a delay is ridiculous, think of all the things you buy ahead of time. Credit cards are specifically marketed at protecting you for such purposes. That's not fraudulent use at all.

You're not undertaking fraud because there's a chance of delays.  You're undertaking fraud because you are investing, rather than pre-ordering, and hedging your bet with chargeback.  You attempt to justify doing this with the following:
1.  Your bankers are scumbags.
2.  That's what buyer protection is for in the first place.

If your banker's scamming justifies your scamming in turn, i have nothing but a sad inkling that they're better at scamming than you -- this all might end in tears.
If you think that buyer protection entitles you to make risky purchases & chargeback if things do not work out, you're simply wrong.  That is not its intended purpose.  
You seem to understand that what you're doing is not strictly legit, hence the "bankers are scumbags, they deserve it" defence (if not, what was your point?).
My point here is relatively benign, i'm not worried about the bankers, they can take care of themselves.  I am worried about the children & the feeble-minded who may believe that your scheme has legitimate merit, and through gullibility lose their money and/or get nailed for fraud.

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[Ytterbium]

I'm still wondering about the actual level of protection under section 75, given the Terms you accepted when you ordered stipulated it was a business sale and you admitted to be a business.

So, one of the two or both is/are acting in bad faith. You're acting in bad faith because you claim to do the trade as an individual (i.e. not a business) to be covered by S75 or a business (which you are not) to be able to buy from them (circumventing the Terms) and they're acting in bad faith because they don't want to offer the necessary security for private customers (and no warranty) - but this is more debatable.

Did you have a lawyer look it over? (apologies if it was mentioned already, TL;DR)

I'm going to look at the same question over here (different laws, different judges).

I doubt it'll be that big of an issue,  KnC's refund policy is that you can ask for a refund at any time until they ship your unit. If they turn out to be a scam and violate their refund policy then it shouldn't be too hard to sue them, as we know who they are and Bitcoinorama and KnC are both in the EU.

[Damnsammit]

Very excited about this!  I'd love to support a Texas-based ASIC company

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I'm still wondering about the actual level of protection under section 75, given the Terms you accepted when you ordered stipulated it was a business sale and you admitted to be a business.

So, one of the two or both is/are acting in bad faith. You're acting in bad faith because you claim to do the trade as an individual (i.e. not a business) to be covered by S75 or a business (which you are not) to be able to buy from them (circumventing the Terms) and they're acting in bad faith because they don't want to offer the necessary security for private customers (and no warranty) - but this is more debatable.

Did you have a lawyer look it over? (apologies if it was mentioned already, TL;DR)

I'm going to look at the same question over here (different laws, different judges).

I doubt it'll be that big of an issue,  KnC's refund policy is that you can ask for a refund at any time until they ship your unit. If they turn out to be a scam and violate their refund policy then it shouldn't be too hard to sue them, as we know who they are and Bitcoinorama and KnC are both in the EU.

Nah, shouldn't be that hard to sue them.  We'll do it the same ol' way we handled Pirateat40 -- we'll rant all sorts of vengeance on these boards & wait for our parents the bankers to do something.  
BTW, what does KNC doing in this thread?  Are they on iffy terms with reality too?

[lajz99]

Wow, when you guys start a new thread without all of the BS I may be interested.  This thread is useless at this point.

[S M I L Y]

I am a local Austin resident.  I just shot off an email to them asking for a meetup.

Ill report back what I can if they dont make me sign an NDA.

[Bitcoinorama]

You're not undertaking fraud because there's a chance of delays.  You're undertaking fraud because you are investing, rather than pre-ordering, and hedging your bet with chargeback.  You attempt to justify doing this with the following:
1.  Your bankers are scumbags.
2.  That's what buyer protection is for in the first place.

If your banker's scamming justifies your scamming in turn, i have nothing but a sad inkling that they're better at scamming than you -- this all might end in tears.
If you think that buyer protection entitles you to make risky purchases & chargeback if things do not work out, you're simply wrong.  That is not its intended purpose.  
You seem to understand that what you're doing is not strictly legit, hence the "bankers are scumbags, they deserve it" defence (if not, what was your point?).
My point here is relatively benign, i'm not worried about the bankers, they can take care of themselves.  I am worried about the children & the feeble-minded who may believe that your scheme has legitimate merit, and through gullibility lose their money and/or get nailed for fraud.

No, no, no, and again, no.

You're assuming a hell of a lot there and appear a little unbalanced. Twisting my words and misrepresenting my intention is fraudulent.

My reference to the banks fraud was sarcasm, but substantiated with fact that ironically (I did use that word before), both my main banks have been involved in the most atrocious acts of financial fraud in history.

Back to the point of this, before Cointerra can finally have their thread back;

I have undertaken more research than any typical consumer using a card from one of my banks.

I went in person and saw for myself the company exists and is capable of undertaking what it's claimed which is a hell of a lot more than most consumers do before pre-ordering a holiday with a travel agent etc.

I then rang my bank, explained the type of purchase in detail, the timescale and queried whether than was an acceptable purchase in their eyes and whether I would be eligible for their protection outside of Paypal's 45 days. I was ringing to see whether they would indeed uphold protection as I read that some banks claim indirect third party payment processors, such as Paypal and Amazon, negate their consumer protection policy. I recorded this, I advise others do the same, this is not fraud, it's common sense due diligence.

I'm not advocating fraud. I'm not ditching my purchase on my bank. I have every confidence KnC from what I saw will deliver, whether it is on time or not, then we'll see. I won't be throwing my toys out the pram over any reasonable delay. I haven't risked a huge amount in my eyes. I'm comfortable with then time and money I have spent on this. I would certainly never advocate fraud or getting into debt over this. If you still think any of this is fraudulent again speak to your bank. It's not. I'm a consumer making a purchase for a product to be delivered within a certain period of time. This is entirely legal. Before November is fine by me, afterwards I would feel the contract to deliver by a certain point to be broken. I can then request a refund. if KnC fail me, my bank has my back. I have no unrealistic aspirations. I also don't want to see people get burned, but they have to take responsibility to do their own groundwork, call their issuing bank, they can certainly visit Stockholm if they wish.

The fact that not one customer of Butterfly Labs, out of all that that purchased looked into this and still allow themselves to held hostage is utter madness. Personally I have always wanted to see Butterfly Labs succeed, as miners we deserve choice in products and price to remain competitive. Not one or two dominant centralised manufacturers. It's bad for Bitcoin, and bad for us.

Now let's please let Cointerra have their thread back, no doubt though this talk of consumer protection benefits their future customers as hopefully people will start to make informed choices, that does require them picking up the phone, listening to some generic music, waiting to speak to a knowledgable person in the institution they wish to bank with. This is sensible advise for anyone.

[aerobatic]

There must be a reason that KnC chose to put 4 dies on a chip instead of one big phat chip.  Presumably having one package with 4 dies on it, is cheaper to produce than 4 packages.   Also, if they had smaller chips, each of 25 GH performance... would anyone care?  the marketing impact sure looks good when everyone else has MH chips or at best a 4 GH chip and you come out of nowhere with a 100 GH chip!   that's a HUGE leap!  No comparison.   Would people have been blown away so much if they had only announced a 25 GH chip?  (even if the same total gigahashes were in a Jupiter box, made up of a higher number of lesser chips)

Wonder what cointerra's leap will be?

I think the strategy could still work well.  The KnC chip, for example has four modules with 48 "engine IPs" each, and they are expecting to to use 250W or less.  The heatsink they're planning on using is supposed to be able to dissipate 320W of heat.

But lets say they're wrong and their chip actually ends up putting out 500w.

If each of the 4 engines was on a separate die, and putting out 125W each they'd have a much easier time figuring out a way to keep them cool.

If they split the chip up even more, putting, say 12 "engine IPs" on a chip, if they were twice their expected power output they'd only need to remove 30W of heat per physical package.

[Ytterbium]

No, no, no, and again, no.

You're assuming a hell of a lot there and appear a little unbalanced. Twisting my words and misrepresenting my intention is fraudulent.

Hit the ignore button dude, that guy's not just stupid he's actively trolling.

[gateway]

I know various ASIC is coming out towards the end of the year but keep in mind it has to really make sense to buy these and get ROI if not more, what is 5k today for 400Gh/s, wont be great if you spend 5k in nov/dec for the same amount, these devices/products/chips really need to start coming down.. ..

[ProfMac]

No, no, no, and again, no.

You're assuming a hell of a lot there and appear a little unbalanced. Twisting my words and misrepresenting my intention is fraudulent.

Hit the ignore button dude, that guy's not just stupid he's actively trolling.

I replied to him a time or two in the FastHash announcement thread.  He earned the distinction of being the 2nd person I have ignored.

[erk]

There must be a reason that KnC chose to put 4 dies on a chip instead of one big phat chip.  Presumably having one package with 4 dies on it, is cheaper to produce than 4 packages.   Also, if they had smaller chips, each of 25 GH performance... would anyone care?  the marketing impact sure looks good when everyone else has MH chips or at best a 4 GH chip and you come out of nowhere with a 100 GH chip!   that's a HUGE leap!  No comparison.   Would people have been blown away so much if they had only announced a 25 GH chip?  (even if the same total gigahashes were in a Jupiter box, made up of a higher number of lesser chips)

KNCminer do not put 4 dies on a chip, it's a single die, I suggest you look at their R&D diagram properly at the grey area labeled die.

@Ytterbium: WTF are you?  You've been here all of two weeks, how about some STFU?

Just add him to your ignore list.


Lets try and get this thread back on track.

[San1ty]

Interesting, following!

[aerobatic]

ok.. I looked at the diagram again and they refer to them as quads and diagrammatically theyre slightly separated, but each quad has its own power and clock...  and is controlled separately from the fpga...

so... I dont think it matters whether its four separate dies, or one big die split into 4 'quads' (or even a multi chip reticle).. im not really sure now... however, im pretty sure that four separate identical dies would be cheaper to make and have a higher yield than one big one...  and the nature of bitcoin hashing is that theres an awful lot of replication in the asic of identical hasher units so it does lend itself to that approach..

KNCminer do not put 4 dies on a chip, it's a single die, I suggest you look at their R&D diagram properly at the grey area labeled die.

[Loredo]

He earned the distinction of being the 2nd person I have ignored.

Assuming I'm not the one sharing that distinction, I meant to ask you earlier:  based on something you wrote, might the phrase "hook 'em" have some meaning to you?

[ProfMac]

He earned the distinction of being the 2nd person I have ignored.

Assuming I'm not the one sharing that distinction, I meant to ask you earlier:  based on something you wrote, might the phrase "hook 'em" have some meaning to you?

Can you find my photo at The Hole in the Wall?

[Loredo]

Can you find my photo at The Hole in the Wall?

We're back next month; I'll check then.

If you frequent such places, and find yourself in Denver for a conference or because you slept past your bus stop, check out the Satire Lounge on Colfax.

[iCEBREAKER]

Thanks for rooting for Cointerra! We will make all Texans proud

Most real Texans aren't proud of anything that goes on in Austin, with the possible exception of football.  And then, only some years.   

What about the time Texas Governor Rick Perry shot a man dead, just to watch him die?  That was very popular.   

[Loredo]

What about the time Texas Governor Rick Perry shot a man dead, just to watch him die?  That was very popular.  

  No, no, no.  While I do have a photo of the Gov holding his 44 magnum Ruger over his head walking in downtown Austin, I'm fairly sure what you cite is an urban myth.  

He did shoot a coyote one morning while jogging, but in self defense.  

[iCEBREAKER]

What about the time Texas Governor Rick Perry shot a man dead, just to watch him die?  That was very popular.  

  No, no, no.  While I do have a photo of the Gov holding his 44 magnum Ruger over his head walking in downtown Austin, I'm fairly sure what you cite is an urban myth.  

He did shoot a coyote one morning while jogging, but in self defense.  

"Coyote" is slang for a human smuggler who helps Mexcan wetbacks invade our Blessed Amercan Homeland.



^I believe that's Gov Perry on the left.  Can't tell for sure with that cap hiding his Good Hair.

That coyote deserved its fate.  Rick Perry For Presdent 2016!