Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon

[amencon]

Is there any way to predict what the hash rates will be in January when Cointerra is expected to ship these 1TH/s and 2TH/s units? I'm considering buying one, and I'm looking for reasons to either buy it, or not buy it. Please help me out here, I'm on the fence, and it's pretty painful. Should I expect that it's gonna be worth it? or not?

Cheers.

Unfortunately it's all a guess right now.  We know that KNC's machine works and is shipping in bulk and that they will release another batch come November.  There are some decent threads in mining speculation sub-forum that try to estimate how much hashrate is coming online given the known manufacturers come through with their offerings. 

The problem is there are many factors in play:
- Will the competition release as much hashrate as they claim they will?
- Will Cointerra ship on time and within spec?
- Are there other "dark pools" of hashrate soon to go online?
etc.

Personally I think there is a reasonable chance that Cointerra's machine will not mine as many BTC as they cost.  Add in the opportunity cost involved in a pre-order and all the risks of a physical machine (delivered late, defective etc.) and I think it's a risky investment that should only be made with money you wouldn't mind terribly losing at least a portion of.

I think the hope with Cointerra is that their machine is more efficient than not only the current competition but also medium term future competitors.  Then as mining becomes less profitable there are less orders and global hashrate tapers off it's exponential increase and other machines drop out due to inefficiency and Cointerra is left marginally profitable for a long time before the next gen comes out and finally obsoletes them.  Looking that far in the future with any aspect of Bitcoin is definitely dicey though.

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[maursader]

Thanks for that post. I'd like to hear more on this.

@Cointerra, I'm from Canada. I'd like to come down and visit you guys, check out the scene if possible. If all checks out, I'd like to buy a few.. starting with 5, or more. @Cointerra - Can you please PM me about this? I'm very interested.

[HeRetiK]

Is there any way to predict what the hash rates will be in January when Cointerra is expected to ship these 1TH/s and 2TH/s units? I'm considering buying one, and I'm looking for reasons to either buy it, or not buy it. Please help me out here, I'm on the fence, and it's pretty painful. Should I expect that it's gonna be worth it? or not?

Cheers.

This might give you a raw idea of what to expect the upcoming months:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0

[maursader]

Thanks for that, I'll check it out as well.

[amencon]

Is there any way to predict what the hash rates will be in January when Cointerra is expected to ship these 1TH/s and 2TH/s units? I'm considering buying one, and I'm looking for reasons to either buy it, or not buy it. Please help me out here, I'm on the fence, and it's pretty painful. Should I expect that it's gonna be worth it? or not?

Cheers.

This might give you a raw idea of what to expect the upcoming months:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0

Yup that was primarily the one I was thinking of but was too lazy to find and link it.  Thanks.

[btc_uzr]

2. Without speculating in exact BTC output, it stands to argue that whoever mines with the highest hash-rate/power consumption ratio will see ROI for quite some time as older and less profitable miners leave the network. Of course Diff cannot exponentially increase past what any hardware can profitably mine, as was seen when GPU made CPU mining obsolete and now with ASIC making GPU mining obsolete.

This is true provided the batch "with the highest hash-rate/power consumption ratio" is delivered quickly as a whole, with the batch size being limited to a reasonable quantity.

BFL messed up in this regard in both respects. They delivered their queue slowly, thereby leaving most reward to those at the start of the queue. They also oversold their single batch at two stages of pricing, knowing that those at the end of the queue would never see a return.

Your statement may prove true for some of your customers, but can you guarantee it for all?

It is our belief that offering high hash-rate at lowest possible power consumption will be profitable until 3rd Gen ASIC, due to the fact that at a certain point only the miners with the lowest power consumption per GH/s will be able to provide ROI.

Thus less profitable miners will to a large extent stop mining and difficulty will adjust to a point where just as it was true for CPU/GPU and soon Gen 1 ASIC profitability will be assured only with the latest generation of ASIC miners.

Since the TerraMiner series will lead the Gen 2 ASIC technology race when it comes to hash power per kW/h we believe our customers will enjoy ROI for quite some time.

W per GH/s is indeed the key

I'm considering to buy from you as well, but currently it I'm not sure whether KnC's 2nd Gen devices in march will make it unprofitable as they might beat your W per GH/s value.
As far as I know they were developing all the time in parallel this hardcopy for 1st Gen, as well as tuned custom design for 2nd Gen.
So they likely have started earlier in April/May and spent more time for development/testing/tuning and it will relase it later, therefore it is possible that their next gen might beat your values.

At the moment I have to accept a later queue-place for a better risk forecast, alternative in my eyes would be risking my investment for a better queue.

[DPoS]

If you are worried about watts/Gh then you won't be close to getting ROI.   You have to make the lion share of your ROI well before the % of paying for power vs mining returns per month becomes significant

Probably better to figure out how much watts per month you can use if you go solar and then just hunt down and add miners that other's sell on the cheap if you want long term hashing

[maursader]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

[DPoS]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

crickets 

[cointerra]

Thanks for that post. I'd like to hear more on this.

@Cointerra, I'm from Canada. I'd like to come down and visit you guys, check out the scene if possible. If all checks out, I'd like to buy a few.. starting with 5, or more. @Cointerra - Can you please PM me about this? I'm very interested.

Hello maursader,
we would love to have you visit our office and meet the team. I will PM you and we can set up a date for you to visit our offices and the beautiful city of Austin.

[cointerra]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

Of course no one in the ASIC industry can make any guarantees when it comes to ROI times etc. However, looking at diff increases historically and the ROI of CPU/GPU and first gen ASIC we foresee that our miners will indeed have quite a long time of very healthy ROI on arrival.

The basis for this is not primarily diff increase speculation but the fact that diff as a function follows the general rule that people will mine until their miners simply are not profitable any longer. We can see this in the plateau in the technological shifts so far and there really is no reason to expect a different behavior with Gen 2 ASIC. Meaning that when 28nm in this case becomes the 'standard' for Bitcoin mining, both GPU (already happened to a large extent) and Gen 1 ASIC will be forced off the network as a result of no longer being profitable.

What we expect here is that the dominant technology will be the best Gen 2 ASIC from a hash-rate/power consumed standpoint, and until Gen 3 ASIC hits the market these miners will provide ROI.

As CoinTerra produces ASIC with what is currently slated to be the most profitable hash-rate/power consumption calculation, we are confident that our miners will provide ample ROI as the leading technology for mining Bitcoin quickly and with low power consumption.

Sorry for the wall of text.

The CoinTerra Team

[bobsag3]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

Of course no one in the ASIC industry can make any guarantees when it comes to ROI times etc. However, looking at diff increases historically and the ROI of CPU/GPU and first gen ASIC we foresee that our miners will indeed have quite a long time of very healthy ROI on arrival.

The basis for this is not primarily diff increase speculation but the fact that diff as a function follows the general rule that people will mine until their miners simply are not profitable any longer. We can see this in the plateau in the technological shifts so far and there really is no reason to expect a different behavior with Gen 2 ASIC. Meaning that when 28nm in this case becomes the 'standard' for Bitcoin mining, both GPU (already happened to a large extent) and Gen 1 ASIC will be forced off the network as a result of no longer being profitable.

What we expect here is that the dominant technology will be the best Gen 2 ASIC from a hash-rate/power consumed standpoint, and until Gen 3 ASIC hits the market these miners will provide ROI.

As CoinTerra produces ASIC with what is currently slated to be the most profitable hash-rate/power consumption calculation, we are confident that our miners will provide ample ROI as the leading technology for mining Bitcoin quickly and with low power consumption.

Sorry for the wall of text.

The CoinTerra Team

Have yall thought of a hosting option? I am a native of Dallas, travel to austin once in a while, and run a hosting company out of Missouri (Somehow power here is cheaper than deregulated Texas... strange). I would of course be happy to meet in person etc, An excuse to fly home and see family in Dallas and SA.

[Nemesis]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

Of course no one in the ASIC industry can make any guarantees when it comes to ROI times etc. However, looking at diff increases historically and the ROI of CPU/GPU and first gen ASIC we foresee that our miners will indeed have quite a long time of very healthy ROI on arrival.

The basis for this is not primarily diff increase speculation but the fact that diff as a function follows the general rule that people will mine until their miners simply are not profitable any longer. We can see this in the plateau in the technological shifts so far and there really is no reason to expect a different behavior with Gen 2 ASIC. Meaning that when 28nm in this case becomes the 'standard' for Bitcoin mining, both GPU (already happened to a large extent) and Gen 1 ASIC will be forced off the network as a result of no longer being profitable.

What we expect here is that the dominant technology will be the best Gen 2 ASIC from a hash-rate/power consumed standpoint, and until Gen 3 ASIC hits the market these miners will provide ROI.

As CoinTerra produces ASIC with what is currently slated to be the most profitable hash-rate/power consumption calculation, we are confident that our miners will provide ample ROI as the leading technology for mining Bitcoin quickly and with low power consumption.

Sorry for the wall of text.

The CoinTerra Team

The problem is.... you see.... your customers will be COMPETING with YOU/YOUR TEAM in mining as well (so being the most efficient hardware is pointless) Guess who will have the upper hand?

If anyone here dont see this, they deserve to lose their bet.

[ralree]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

crickets 

Sorry for the wall of text.

The CoinTerra Team

bitchslapped. 

[Dagger75]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

Of course no one in the ASIC industry can make any guarantees when it comes to ROI times etc. However, looking at diff increases historically and the ROI of CPU/GPU and first gen ASIC we foresee that our miners will indeed have quite a long time of very healthy ROI on arrival.

The basis for this is not primarily diff increase speculation but the fact that diff as a function follows the general rule that people will mine until their miners simply are not profitable any longer. We can see this in the plateau in the technological shifts so far and there really is no reason to expect a different behavior with Gen 2 ASIC. Meaning that when 28nm in this case becomes the 'standard' for Bitcoin mining, both GPU (already happened to a large extent) and Gen 1 ASIC will be forced off the network as a result of no longer being profitable.

What we expect here is that the dominant technology will be the best Gen 2 ASIC from a hash-rate/power consumed standpoint, and until Gen 3 ASIC hits the market these miners will provide ROI.

As CoinTerra produces ASIC with what is currently slated to be the most profitable hash-rate/power consumption calculation, we are confident that our miners will provide ample ROI as the leading technology for mining Bitcoin quickly and with low power consumption.

Sorry for the wall of text.

The CoinTerra Team

The problem is.... you see.... your customers will be COMPETING with YOU/YOUR TEAM in mining as well (so being the most efficient hardware is pointless) Guess who will have the upper hand?

If anyone here dont see this, they deserve to lose their bet.

Exactly, the miners buying equipment will always be the ones losing in this scenario.  Just look at Bitfury, https://ghash.io/ they just added another 100TH/s Today so up to 625TH/s now!!  Meanwhile October orders for the V3 Bitfury Hash boards are still asking Dave where there gear is since it's running later than Promised...it looks like the answer to that question is Right here https://ghash.io/ once again.

We're gonna keep losing big until we make our stand and demand Gear that is priced much cheaper so as to be able to ROI before the Miner no longer pays for Electricity.

I just don't understand how anyone is still getting any Pre-order business anymore either.  Some must just have alot of money to blow...

[DPoS]

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

crickets 

Sorry for the wall of text.

The CoinTerra Team

bitchslapped. 

lol how>?>  by them saying a big good luck?

[DPoS]

I just don't understand how anyone is still getting any Pre-order business anymore either.  Some must just have alot of money to blow...

problem is you are still in the old gpu miner mentality ...  with the stakes raised people can play 'cost basis' tricks on the old ledger.. etc

[Dagger75]

I just don't understand how anyone is still getting any Pre-order business anymore either.  Some must just have alot of money to blow...

problem is you are still in the old gpu miner mentality ...  with the stakes raised people can play 'cost basis' tricks on the old ledger.. etc

I hear what you're saying, but I think very few have that opportunity available to them.  It's gonna really suck having to watch this from the "outside" once my current Asics cost more to run then they earn.

I hope come Summer of 2014 things start to look alittle more clear for us miners and the whole network doesn't consist just 6-12 Large Corporate Miners mining using the ASIC design that our pre-orders paid for to milk to Network for all it's worth.     Keeping my fingers crossed that they understand Bitcoin enough to realize a Centralized Network will ruin Bitcoin so no more $200,000+ a Day for 25% of the network.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Going off topic a bit here... But in 2014, the bulk of the sales of bitcoin hardware will be those products that are low cost, high performance and low power.  Ie: Complete Systems (not chips) selling for <$3/GH in early 2014, <$2/GH in mid 2014, and probably even <$1/GH by end of 2014 (assuming a die shrink to hit that figure).

There will be no die shrink in 2014 and probably not in 2015. 

[ralree]

lol how>?>  by them saying a big good luck?

Just thought it was funny that you were implying they weren't going to comment, when they commented just a few hours later.  No ill will, my friend .