CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s

[sasadjak]

you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

What diff will be when your manufacturer deliver what he promise (without other competitor).
Many of them make own miner unprofitable if deliver all preordered units.
That is point...

[kendog77]

you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes I can be right on both counts. Most mining manufacturers simply deliver late, making it impossible to calculate ROI with any degree of accuracy.

[reactor]

you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes I can be right on both counts. Most mining manufacturers simply deliver late, making it impossible to calculate ROI with any degree of accuracy.

The larger problem is taking pre-orders for a product that will deliver (hashing) for (price,wattage) when what really matters is difficulty.  A .5TH unit may be the equivalent of a BFL Single by the end of the year if everyone who says they will deliver manages to deliver, plus the 'unknown' factor adds even more doubt. 

No more "pre-orders", either have a product or don't.  If you come out of left field and can deliver next week you will clean up and can retire.

[-Redacted-]

Pretty much my feeling about things.  I think I've got about 100K tied up in "pre-orders" at this point.  I have about an equal budget of $$ to spend still, but I'll be spending somewhere that provides "off the shelf" delivery and Fedex shipping.  I pay today, I get product tomorrow.  Period.  I will not play pre-order games anymore.

[Ytterbium]

If you are ok with discarding your KNC product in a couple of months after purchase, then go for it.

That's going to be mostly true of ANY bitcoin mining product, including yours. It's likely a KnC will mostly pay for itself before your chips get on the network.

I expect my B2 Avalon won't be doing much a few months from now either, but for now it's quite nice.

It would be like AMD saying.

Our 9970 GPU will have a largish amount of transistors and moreish than 5,000 TFLOPS in OpenCL performance and TDP will be 100W to 1,000W or so. Oh and it will be one of* the most powerful GPUs in the world.

Lol

Anyway, I like this guys attitude. Nothing wrong with being confident, they certainly have the resumes to back that up - we'll see if they have the ability to execute as well.

[Ytterbium]

Sure if they are willing to risk millions of their own money, or private equity, which would be mad.

This is where you and I disagree.  While this is probably not the venue for this debate, I'll just say (again) that a fully-funded chip development would provide three avenues of cost recovery and opportunity for either vertically integrating, or pursuing least-crowded-space business planning.

With chip/board in hand, the vendor could either (1) sell retail, thereby eating everyone else's lunch even at a competitive price; (2) offer on-going shared participation in a hashing operation, passing through the BTC to the participants, or (3) mine privately, keeping the fungibility risk and attendant costs of network presence.

Again, I don't think this is the venue for a back and forth on this; we don't want to hijack this thread too badly.

We know each other's positions on pre-order, and will likely have plenty of opportunity to debate as the summer turns to fall.   

ASICMiner, as well as Labcoin and BTCGarden are all funded by a more "traditional" investment style where people buy shares and get a cut of the profit.  The only unusual things about them was that they were done using infrastructure over bitcoin. 

Problem for a U.S. company is that that's highly legally questionable here in the U.S due to laws regulating securities.  We are actually supposed to have a new law that would allow "normal" people to invest some money in startups, but regulators haven't written up the "regulations" dealing with that today.

If Cointerra were to do a Labcoin/BTCGarden style IPO they would probably be able to raise millions of dollars that way.  But it would be legally iffy for all involved.

[eve]

i refuse to pre-order ... no more!

I'm done with pre-orders as well. In a couple of months, a clear ASIC mining hardware leader should emerge and difficulty should stabilize to the point that buyers actually have enough information to calculate ROI with some degree of accuracy.

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes We are All Done with Pre Orders, No More Pre Orders!!

[Begru]

i refuse to pre-order ... no more!

I'm done with pre-orders as well. In a couple of months, a clear ASIC mining hardware leader should emerge and difficulty should stabilize to the point that buyers actually have enough information to calculate ROI with some degree of accuracy.

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes We are All Done with Pre Orders, No More Pre Orders!!

+++1

[Ytterbium]

Yes We are All Done with Pre Orders, No More Pre Orders!!

+++1

Eh, speak for yourselves.  I did a Avalon B2 pre-order and it worked out fine for me.  I also have a KnC on pre-order.

However, at this rate I doubt I'll "invest" much more in mining equipment until the difficulty levels off a little, unless Cointerra is very, very cheap.

[CoinHoarder]

I hope most of you are serious about being done with preorders.

There will be more of these leftover for me. Muhahaha 

Cointerra sounds like a very experienced team, I want to give them my money to make this happen!

[vellen]

Will it be a preorder? (hope not ))
Or will you send the chips immediately(few days) after payment?

[reactor]

I hope most of you are serious about being done with preorders.

There will be more of these leftover for me. Muhahaha 

Cointerra sounds like a very experienced team, I want to give them my money to make this happen!

The thing is that if you've been in this for a while, or have money to burn, then no biggie on a pre-order to keep up with the arms race.  Some of us are relatively new to the scene.  Take my group, for example, we've got thousands sitting in an account waiting for us to make a hardware decision, however it simply isn't worth investing at this point because there is no clear quasi-safe move.  If we were mining since 2010, had a BTC wallet as fat as a cow, and could pay for all our pre-orders with either BTC direct or by doing a small dump to an exchange, that's a different story.  But people putting fresh cash into pre-orders right now is kinda nuts.

[Ytterbium]

Will it be a preorder? (hope not ))
Or will you send the chips immediately(few days) after payment?

Yes, they are doing a pre-order. It says so on their website.

If they succeed, when they are done their chips will go to the people who pre-ordered.

The thing is that if you've been in this for a while, or have money to burn, then no biggie on a pre-order to keep up with the arms race.  Some of us are relatively new to the scene.  Take my group, for example, we've got thousands sitting in an account waiting for us to make a hardware decision, however it simply isn't worth investing at this point because there is no clear quasi-safe move.  If we were mining since 2010, had a BTC wallet as fat as a cow, and could pay for all our pre-orders with either BTC direct or by doing a small dump to an exchange, that's a different story.  But people putting fresh cash into pre-orders right now is kinda nuts.

That's true, although what sucks for people who pre-ordered from BFL is that they would probably have hoarded their coins if BFL hadn't taken them, and at the time they were worth a lot less.  If you ordered a Jalapeno you probably paid about 20-40btc. If you ordered a mini-rig that would have been maybe 3000BTC. Little chance you'll ever see that again.

On the other hand, it's pretty unlikely that the price of BTC is going to go up by 10x like it did last year around this time.

[San1ty]

The pricing better be darned sweet or december won't be worth it.

[xjack]

What the hell is this "reserved" business?  Is it like ticket scalping or BFL pre-orders that we can sell on ebay?  

For sale:  Post number 7 on CoinTerra's announcement thread.  Buy It Now for 1.5 BTC.  Details at zombo dot com.

reserved.

Reserving that post in the thread for future edits.

Done so the poster can add information to the top of the thread. 

[frankenmint]

Will it be a preorder? (hope not ))
Or will you send the chips immediately(few days) after payment?

Yes, they are doing a pre-order. It says so on their website.

If they succeed, when they are done their chips will go to the people who pre-ordered.

The thing is that if you've been in this for a while, or have money to burn, then no biggie on a pre-order to keep up with the arms race.  Some of us are relatively new to the scene.  Take my group, for example, we've got thousands sitting in an account waiting for us to make a hardware decision, however it simply isn't worth investing at this point because there is no clear quasi-safe move.  If we were mining since 2010, had a BTC wallet as fat as a cow, and could pay for all our pre-orders with either BTC direct or by doing a small dump to an exchange, that's a different story.  But people putting fresh cash into pre-orders right now is kinda nuts.

That's true, although what sucks for people who pre-ordered from BFL is that they would probably have hoarded their coins if BFL hadn't taken them, and at the time they were worth a lot less.  If you ordered a Jalapeno you probably paid about 20-40btc. If you ordered a mini-rig that would have been maybe 3000BTC. Little chance you'll ever see that again.

On the other hand, it's pretty unlikely that the price of BTC is going to go up by 10x like it did last year around this time.

wow if I paid 3K btc and this happened and I still didn't get my unit delivered - I'd need to commit a few 'irreversible' acts in KS. 

[kmtan]

interesting...going to monitoring..

[relm9]

The pricing better be darned sweet or december won't be worth it.

Where'd they say December? Late 2013 could mean Oct - November.

Although I'd agree, by December unless Bitcoin price rises substantially I think there will have to be a pricing shakeup in the ASIC market.

[Loredo]

Reserving that post in the thread for future edits.

Done so the poster can add information to the top of the thread. 

But isn't it usually the original poster, or someone in the announcing team, that "reserves"? 

Don't get me wrong; I'm happy that others are doing so, since I reserved one too.  Matter of fact, I'm raising my price on my reserved post to 1.8 BTC.   

[Tsukene]

Reserving that post in the thread for future edits.

Done so the poster can add information to the top of the thread. 

But isn't it usually the original poster, or someone in the announcing team, that "reserves"? 

Don't get me wrong; I'm happy that others are doing so, since I reserved one too.  Matter of fact, I'm raising my price on my reserved post to 1.8 BTC.   

selling reply #1 for 2 btc