[CLOSED] Hosted-Mining (revenue shares) / BTCT.co

[zif33rs]

Q1: Could you get  a big discount from Alydian?

As I pointed out, if the price is $650000 for 10T, it will not even break even, let alone any profit. If there's a big discount, the investor needs to know about it before give out any money.

Q2: How do you get the another 80TH? Still from Alydian?

If the whole plan all depends on the big discount of Alydian, it only make sense you are part of Alydian. Otherwise, why Alydian does not do this thing themselves?

Alydian are selling at prices where there's little if any profit at all for purchasers.  They won't sell at prices where a decent profit could be made - as it would then be better for them just to borrow the money themselves.  When you take something that will make hardly any profit (if any at all) then add on a further 10% management fee you end up with something that's just not a decent investment.

And that's why he can't post new calcs with reasonable figures - as if you look at them you find that at best it makes a tiny profit and at worst a fairly significant loss for investors.  And that's without even taking into account two layers of CP risk.

@deprived    This is just not true. You are making a lot of assumptions on the price point. The exact figures will be disclosed to shareholders once the contract is signed.

[1714886093]

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[1714886093]

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[LOL]

5,000 BTC is ~17857 shares. That's 14% of the IPO. The prospectus does not indicate what is to happen if this value is reached, yet not all 250,000 shares are sold. The conclusion I'm drawing is that if all 250,000 shares ARE NOT purchased then phase II will never be reached. What is the middle ground?

What is the lead time on the ASIC miners beyond the first 10TH?
How is your guarantee going to be met if the miners are not hashing on August 30th? How is this going to be funded?

"If the equivelent of 5,000 btc worth of shares or more are sold, we will go ahead and sign the contract. We will then start hashing by no later than Aug. 30, 2013.

If all 250,000 shares are sold, we will be working towards obtaining the additional 80+TH  and to prepare for phase II."

"2.) PHASE II - Second Batch Offering

This phase won't start until we have obtained at least the additional 80TH. The expected time for this to happen is around Sept/Oct 2013. Upon reaching this point, the rest of the 250,000 shares will be release to the market.

Before offering batch 2 shares, we will have an announcement notifying all shareholders of the upcoming release."

I don't know if you understand why the prospectus is unclear.

You make promises for 2 landmarks: ~17857 shares, and 250,000 shares. The way it's worded you have no obligation to the shareholder beyond 10TH until all 250,000 shares are sold.

What is going to happen to the shareholders money if the IPO is not completely sold?

And I understand that you expect phase II to start "around Sept/Oct." I'm asking about lead time because we all know how critical 2 weeks can be. Do you have a lead time from the time you put the money down till the time the ASIC is shipped?

[Deprived]

Q1: Could you get  a big discount from Alydian?

As I pointed out, if the price is $650000 for 10T, it will not even break even, let alone any profit. If there's a big discount, the investor needs to know about it before give out any money.

Q2: How do you get the another 80TH? Still from Alydian?

If the whole plan all depends on the big discount of Alydian, it only make sense you are part of Alydian. Otherwise, why Alydian does not do this thing themselves?

Alydian are selling at prices where there's little if any profit at all for purchasers.  They won't sell at prices where a decent profit could be made - as it would then be better for them just to borrow the money themselves.  When you take something that will make hardly any profit (if any at all) then add on a further 10% management fee you end up with something that's just not a decent investment.

And that's why he can't post new calcs with reasonable figures - as if you look at them you find that at best it makes a tiny profit and at worst a fairly significant loss for investors.  And that's without even taking into account two layers of CP risk.

@deprived    This is just not true. You are making a lot of assumptions on the price point. The exact figures will be disclosed to shareholders once the contract is signed.

I simply made the assumption that the price point in the example calc you pasted of $232500 for 5TH was correct.  If that wasn't correct then what was the point of you posting it?

Your OP indicates that potential investors should conduct due diligence and you give a link to a mining calc.  How do you expect them to do that at all without a price?

Given that you posted an entirely incorrect calc yourself maybe you can appreciate why noone is too keen on just taking your word that it's profitable - how are we supposed to know you didn't screw up again?  Or that you're using reasonable projections for future difficulty?

"Give me millions of dollars THEN I'll give you the information to work out whether you'll make a profit" is just the wrong way round.

If you're going to guarantee you've correctly calculated it - and make good any short-fall yourself - then that's different.

[Deprived]

If you aren't going to provide sufficient information for investors to work out the profitability or otherwise then please:

1.  Make a clear statement that you've calculated it will be profitable.
2.  Make a clear statement that you accept you aren't providing investors with sufficient information to verify the veracity of #1.

Then at least if you're wrong investors have a solid basis for action against you.

You can't on the one hand ask investors to do due diligence then on the other deny them the information to do so.

[zif33rs]

5,000 BTC is ~17857 shares. That's 14% of the IPO. The prospectus does not indicate what is to happen if this value is reached, yet not all 250,000 shares are sold. The conclusion I'm drawing is that if all 250,000 shares ARE NOT purchased then phase II will never be reached. What is the middle ground?

What is the lead time on the ASIC miners beyond the first 10TH?
How is your guarantee going to be met if the miners are not hashing on August 30th? How is this going to be funded?

"If the equivelent of 5,000 btc worth of shares or more are sold, we will go ahead and sign the contract. We will then start hashing by no later than Aug. 30, 2013.

If all 250,000 shares are sold, we will be working towards obtaining the additional 80+TH  and to prepare for phase II."

"2.) PHASE II - Second Batch Offering

This phase won't start until we have obtained at least the additional 80TH. The expected time for this to happen is around Sept/Oct 2013. Upon reaching this point, the rest of the 250,000 shares will be release to the market.

Before offering batch 2 shares, we will have an announcement notifying all shareholders of the upcoming release."

I don't know if you understand why the prospectus is unclear.

You make promises for 2 landmarks: ~17857 shares, and 250,000 shares. The way it's worded you have no obligation to the shareholder beyond 10TH until all 250,000 shares are sold.

What is going to happen to the shareholders money if the IPO is not completely sold?

And I understand that you expect phase II to start "around Sept/Oct." I'm asking about lead time because we all know how critical 2 weeks can be. Do you have a lead time from the time you put the money down till the time the ASIC is shipped?

I apologize if it seems unclear or vague. I think it states whats needed and expected pretty clearly.

We need to hit the 5000 btc threshold...TODAY. Or within a few days at the very latest. These contracts are live and its first come first serve.

If the launch landmark is met and all shares are NOT sold we will make a motion asking that dividends be paid out to only the active shares or something to that effect. The management of the fund will be as simple and as transparent as possible.

@LOL   Your right..2 weeks is along time..especially with other vendors on the verge of rolling out products as well. That is why the Share is trying to gather a larger amount than is strictly needed, so it can leverage that buying power to obtain the best deal available for the investor. Between now and October its hard to say which manufacture is going to be selling the cheapest terahash.

I dont have any of those contracts in hand...I have this one 10TH contract..waiting to be signed. I can guarantee that it will start mining no later than August 30th. If this deadline is not met then additional TH will be provided to cover the difference at NO CHARGE to make up the lost revenue. If we generate more than is needed to lock down this deal and have enough to bid on more terahash that will have to be discussed. I believe if the offer funds fully I can get additional terahash immediately from Alydian but that would involve separate contracts.

If you aren't going to provide sufficient information for investors to work out the profitability or otherwise then please:

1.  Make a clear statement that you've calculated it will be profitable.
2.  Make a clear statement that you accept you aren't providing investors with sufficient information to verify the veracity of #1.

Then at least if you're wrong investors have a solid basis for action against you.

You can't on the one hand ask investors to do due diligence then on the other deny them the information to do so.

1. I personally promise that the numbers we have calculated for this revenue fund are profitable to the best of my knowledge if we obtain the figures to launch phase I.      Is that clear enough?

I also personally promise to show any investor a spreadsheet with those figures once the contract is signed. Further more I give everyone my word this is as a legitimate a deal for the immediate roll out of asic miners as I have seen. I promise to be available to deal with any issues. I also promise to not bail out if it gets rough or there are problems. I am putting my personal and business reputation on the line for this. This plan has long term goals and investment strategies that no one else is even talking about.

All I am asking for is trust, some vision, or "madness" or what ever you want to call it, to get this live and see what the investors say.


 

[torbank]

How soon will this be available on BTCT?

[zif33rs]

How soon will this be available on BTCT?

It still needs one more shareholder vote to go live. I take it in a very positive light that after this much time there are no negative votes and only 2 who have abstained. I am working on providing everyone with more specific details about phase 2 as well and hope to have that updated on the listing by this evening. Thanks

[Sou]

I for one would like to see it get approved, just to see what happens. Have to be running low on moderators by now though 

[zif33rs]

I for one would like to see it get approved, just to see what happens. Have to be running low on moderators by now though 

Your slightest whim is my greatest desire.     The share is going live within the hour.

[Sou]

I for one would like to see it get approved, just to see what happens. Have to be running low on moderators by now though 

Your slightest whim is my greatest desire.     The share is going live within the hour.

Let the fun begin 

[servicelabs]

Purchased

[VolanicEruptor]

I see a huge problem releasing this many shares with the intention of only raising 5000btc to start..
you're narrowing the interest to only long-term investors.  You need the short term ones too.  Speculators aren't going to buy in just to watch the other 230,000 shares just sit there while the share price does nothing.  
If you needed 5000 BTC to get started, then you should have started with a 20,000 share IPO.  That would have caused some excitement...

Because of this method, we are going to see zero action.  

[Sou]

I see a huge problem releasing this many shares with the intention of only raising 5000btc to start..
you're narrowing the interest to only long-term investors.  You need the short term ones too.  Speculators aren't going to buy in just to watch the other 230,000 shares just sit there while the share price does nothing. 
If you needed 5000 BTC to get started, then you should have started with a 20,000 share IPO.  That would have caused some excitement...

Because of this method, we are going to see zero action. 

Yup, there is a slight lack of incentive for early adoption in the shares. Starting off with a very small offering of shares at a lower price might have worked better. Everyone wants to see the huge returns from early adoption. An IPO of 50,000 shares at 0.1 would have created a mania. You could have always issued the remainder of the shares at the .28 (or higher) at a later date once everything became more established.

[redbeans2012]

I see a huge problem releasing this many shares with the intention of only raising 5000btc to start..
you're narrowing the interest to only long-term investors.  You need the short term ones too.  Speculators aren't going to buy in just to watch the other 230,000 shares just sit there while the share price does nothing.  
If you needed 5000 BTC to get started, then you should have started with a 20,000 share IPO.  That would have caused some excitement...

Because of this method, we are going to see zero action.  

I'm the type to wait till they are almost sold out to buy.  I'm sure alot of others do too.   Since you are on such a short time frame, maybe there is something you can do as an incentive.

[VolanicEruptor]

their goal isn't to "sell out" with these shares before September, it's to sell ~20,000 shares to fund their first 10th/s..
so they would get the funding, and than the rest of the shares would sit there for months before "selling out" for the next phase
this sounds so boring that most investors here are not going to bite.  
No action = no buy.

[redbeans2012]

their goal isn't to "sell out" with these shares before September, it's to sell ~20,000 shares to fund their first 10th/s..
so they would get the funding, and than the rest of the shares would sit there for months before "selling out" for the next phase
this sounds so boring that most investors here are not going to bite.  
No action = no buy.

Truth, I wasn't aware that only the 20,000 shares were necessary for the funding.  If you switch to just 20k shares for the ipo then put the rest at a higher price you will see some fun stuff happen.

[VolanicEruptor]

The only way this method would work is if they get some big whale investors.. but whales like to know more numbers.  Just look at kevin O'Leary  You would never be able to convince him without a full profit projection, or at least show a range of possible profit scenerios..

Good luck getting the whales to bite though.. 

[Sou]

their goal isn't to "sell out" with these shares before September, it's to sell ~20,000 shares to fund their first 10th/s..
so they would get the funding, and than the rest of the shares would sit there for months before "selling out" for the next phase
this sounds so boring that most investors here are not going to bite.  
No action = no buy.

Truth, I wasn't aware that only the 20,000 shares were necessary for the funding.  If you switch to just 20k shares for the ipo then put the rest at a higher price you will see some fun stuff happen.

Everyone sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens would be forced to jump in or miss out.

[VolanicEruptor]

people who miss out will just buy in for a higher price, and this is what drives share prices up.  Then you release the second IPO after.. that's how its done

Unfortunately that's not how it was done

[FloatesMcgoates]

I seriously want to know the thought process that any investor has when he buys in at this IPO that suggests the market value of this company that currently hashes at 0 TH/s is 14 million dollars.