[CLOSED] Hosted-Mining (revenue shares) / BTCT.co

[Deprived]

IMHO from now on this is the only option left to small/medium grade miners. Only few will afford mining with their own ASICs. We can only have a piece of the pie like this. Or mine with gpus + free electricity alt coins...

There is so much more truth to this than anyone realizes... we should think about this.


"If we discount the price of $19/GH from KnC delivering end of October back to 8/29/2013, it will be @19*2*2=$76/GH. i.e. 0.69btc/GH.
If we discount the price of $7.8/GH from BFL delivering end of December back to 8/29/2013, it will be @7.8*2*2*2*2=$124.8/GH. i.e. 1.13btc/GH.

In either case, you also have lost the mining revenue that could have been generated during the wait time."

Just NO.

You need to get someone with basic numeracy skills to make any posts relating to numbers.

1.  If you assume difficulty will double in a month it doesn't mean chips a month earlier are worth twice as much - as that would also need to assume that what was mined in that month would equal the total mining in all further months (depending on future changes it could actually be anywhere from be a lot less than further earnings to a bit more).
2.  You can't adjust the price based on difficulty AND treat the mined coins as being an extra loss - as you're counting the same thing twice.  The mined coins ARE the only reason to adjust the value for earlier delivery.

If you want to compare the value of chips shipped now with ones shipped in 2 months then you don't quadruple the price, you simply add on the coins that would be mined in those 2 months - and that gives you the MAXIMUM extra value for earlier delivery (it's a maximum because it assumes zero costs or failures during those 2 months).

Whilst that won't tell you how much the chips are worth, it will give provide a basis for determining whether one or the other of the prices is massively better than the other (and if mined income is being 100% returned to investors then you can also make SOME conclusions about likely ROI - but only to the extent of determining whether one is likely to be significantly better than the other : you can't calculate actual ROIs without projecting income a lot further forward).

[1714042734]

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[creativex]

IMHO from now on this is the only option left to small/medium grade miners. Only few will afford mining with their own ASICs. We can only have a piece of the pie like this. Or mine with gpus + free electricity alt coins...

There is so much more truth to this than anyone realizes... we should think about this.

"If we discount the price of $19/GH from KnC delivering end of October back to 8/29/2013, it will be @19*2*2=$76/GH. i.e. 0.69btc/GH.
If we discount the price of $7.8/GH from BFL delivering end of December back to 8/29/2013, it will be @7.8*2*2*2*2=$124.8/GH. i.e. 1.13btc/GH.

In either case, you also have lost the mining revenue that could have been generated during the wait time."

Just because pre-ordering gear months in advance has proven to be a poor decision does not mean that pre-paying for one year of hashes is a good decision. We don't know where difficulty is going to be several months from now, but we can be fairly certain it will be higher, probably much higher, and that the cost/Gh/s will likely be much lower. The very company that you're negotiating a contract with plans to roll out 1Ph/s contracts in October. What do you think that will do to the value of your locked in contract?

[lklk1986fa]

"Launch day pricing"  

Well...the price has fallen significantly since launch.

Not significantly enough. The term is too long. Half that price for six months may provide a return.

Again, I don't think you are following. The amount of BTC we are paying is for the whole rigs plus the fees for one-year hosting and energy cost. i.e. no matter how long we let them host for us, we own the rigs anyway.

This worth a highlight, not everyone realize that

[klee]

"Launch day pricing"  

Well...the price has fallen significantly since launch.

Not significantly enough. The term is too long. Half that price for six months may provide a return.

Again, I don't think you are following. The amount of BTC we are paying is for the whole rigs plus the fees for one-year hosting and energy cost. i.e. no matter how long we let them host for us, we own the rigs anyway.

This worth a highlight, not everyone realize that

+1

[creativex]

Let me put it another way. .38BTC*$112.56(bitstamp) = $42.7728/Gh/s for September delivery. This is equivalent to a knc Jupiter(400Gh/s) priced at $17109.12 available next week. Does that sound like a good deal? No? Even without the marginal cost of electricity it will not be paying for itself...let alone make a profit for investors. The term of the contract is entirely too long and is a deal breaker in this uncertain environment.

[zif33rs]

UPDATE: 8.25

We will be halting trade at 5:30 pst to allow the details of the motion to be implemented. Trading will resume shortly after.


Cheers,

HOSTED-MINING
 

[KCBitcoin]

Let me put it another way. .38BTC*$112.56(bitstamp) = $42.7728/Gh/s for September delivery. This is equivalent to a knc Jupiter(400Gh/s) priced at $17109.12 available next week. Does that sound like a good deal? No? Even without the marginal cost of electricity it will not be paying for itself...let alone make a profit for investors. The term of the contract is entirely too long and is a deal breaker in this uncertain environment.

lol, but even if you are willing to pay $17,109.12, you wont have a 400GH Jupiter available next week.

Let's go and pay $7,000 for 400GH jupiter now, and wait for it to mine in November?
Does this sound like a good deal?

Difficulty doubles every month, and you want to pay $7000 now to just mine 1/4 of the coins you can mine today in November?

Can you do the math now? The $7,000 you paid will only worth 100GH/s today, so you need $28,000 to be on par with 400GH/s today, if you take into consideration of the difficulty increase and discount the price back to today.

$17,109 vs. $28,000, which one is a good deal?

[creativex]

Let me put it another way. .38BTC*$112.56(bitstamp) = $42.7728/Gh/s for September delivery. This is equivalent to a knc Jupiter(400Gh/s) priced at $17109.12 available next week. Does that sound like a good deal? No? Even without the marginal cost of electricity it will not be paying for itself...let alone make a profit for investors. The term of the contract is entirely too long and is a deal breaker in this uncertain environment.

lol, but even if you are willing to pay $17,109.12, you wont have a 400GH Jupiter available next week.

Let's go and pay $7,000 for 400GH jupiter now, and wait for it to mine in November?
Does this sound like a good deal?

Nope...and that's why I haven't ordered any.

Difficulty doubles every month, and you want to pay $7000 now to just mine 1/4 of the coins you can mine today in November?

Who leaps out...of the rabbit? Perhaps if we build a large wooden badgah...

What do you mean by "and you want to pay $7000 now to just mine 1/4 of the coins you can mine today in November?" Who's "you" in this instance? Do you recall back when I said "Just because pre-ordering gear months in advance has proven to be a poor decision..."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=271475.msg3005648#msg3005648

Can you do the math now? The $7,000 you paid will only worth 100GH/s today, so you need $28,000 to be on par with 400GH/s today, if you take into consideration of the difficulty increase and discount the price back to today.

Another instance of stray "yous".

$17,109 vs. $28,000, which one is a good deal?

Umm...neither?

[KCBitcoin]

Let me put it another way. .38BTC*$112.56(bitstamp) = $42.7728/Gh/s for September delivery. This is equivalent to a knc Jupiter(400Gh/s) priced at $17109.12 available next week. Does that sound like a good deal? No? Even without the marginal cost of electricity it will not be paying for itself...let alone make a profit for investors. The term of the contract is entirely too long and is a deal breaker in this uncertain environment.

lol, but even if you are willing to pay $17,109.12, you wont have a 400GH Jupiter available next week.

Let's go and pay $7,000 for 400GH jupiter now, and wait for it to mine in November?
Does this sound like a good deal?

Nope...and that's why I haven't ordered any.

Difficulty doubles every month, and you want to pay $7000 now to just mine 1/4 of the coins you can mine today in November?

Who leaps out...of the rabbit? Perhaps if we build a large wooden badgah...

What do you mean by "and you want to pay $7000 now to just mine 1/4 of the coins you can mine today in November?" Who's "you" in this instance? Do you recall back when I said "Just because pre-ordering gear months in advance has proven to be a poor decision..."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=271475.msg3005648#msg3005648

Can you do the math now? The $7,000 you paid will only worth 100GH/s today, so you need $28,000 to be on par with 400GH/s today, if you take into consideration of the difficulty increase and discount the price back to today.

Another instance of stray "yous".

$17,109 vs. $28,000, which one is a good deal?

Umm...neither?

No offence, i didn't mean to refer to 'you'.
But yea, my point has been made, there is no better deal at this point of time if we do a mathematical comparison among all the suppliers.

[lklk1986fa]

Man, creativex invested nothing basic mining, he is simply another troll.

[creativex]

Troll = someone you disagree with? Someone that doesn't share your favorable opinion of this particular investment? Are you suggesting that I'm not authorized to ask questions or offer my opinion unless I've purchased shares?

[lklk1986fa]

Troll = someone you disagree with? Someone that doesn't share your favorable opinion of this particular investment? Are you suggesting that I'm not authorized to ask questions or offer my opinion unless I've purchased shares?

Your questions have been explained, if you still unsatisfied, try ask the same question to basic mining, and if you can came with some numbers better than this, I am willing to hear.

[zif33rs]

We still have trading halted. We do not see that the split has occurred. We will turn on trade again once we hear back from Burnside and/or see that the split has happened as planned.

Once we see that, we will have some more information for you as well.

Thanks

H-M

[creativex]

Troll = someone you disagree with? Someone that doesn't share your favorable opinion of this particular investment? Are you suggesting that I'm not authorized to ask questions or offer my opinion unless I've purchased shares?

Your questions have been explained, if you still unsatisfied, try ask the same question to basic mining, and if you can came with some numbers better than this, I am willing to hear.

bASIC-Mining is not engaging in pre-order madness for precisely the reasons I've stated above. Hashes have been added by making select purchases in the secondary market until lead times and unrealistic price tags drop. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, I'm just discussing the topic at hand because I find it interesting.

Cheers.

[redbeans2012]

Troll = someone you disagree with? Someone that doesn't share your favorable opinion of this particular investment? Are you suggesting that I'm not authorized to ask questions or offer my opinion unless I've purchased shares?

Your questions have been explained, if you still unsatisfied, try ask the same question to basic mining, and if you can came with some numbers better than this, I am willing to hear.

bASIC-Mining is not engaging in pre-order madness for precisely the reasons I've stated above. Hashes have been added by making select purchases in the secondary market until lead times and unrealistic price tags drop. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, I'm just discussing the topic at hand because I find it interesting.

Cheers.

If everything goes according to plan here, who has the best BTC / GH ratio? Basic or Hostedmining?

I dont see how there is much to lose investing here.  OP lives across the bay from the place he's getting the miners from.  He has an established btc business already.  The place he's buying hashing power from is run by some known names in the Bitcoin world.  If IPO fails he gives the $$ back.
 

[creativex]

Hi redbeans2012. This is not a competition against any one particular mining company, this is a struggle to obtain and hold a small piece of the global bitcoin network in the face of rapidly rising difficulty. It's my contention that overpaying for hashes and/or locking in a fixed hashrate at a relatively high price for a lengthy term is a net net loser. Why do you suppose Alydian offers contracts with such a lengthy term in an environment as fluid as this? Pay as you go for 1 - 3 months even at .38/Gh would likely be a great deal, but that's not the deal offered.

[Street Jammer]

@creativex

What would be the best price / GH  in your calcs ?

[burnside]

100x split completed.  Sorry about the holdup.

Cheers.

[zif33rs]

100x split completed.  Sorry about the holdup.

Cheers.

Thank you sir. 



Trade has resumed.

 

[damiano]

If volume picks up I might jump in, but it looks like a ghost town right now :/