Future Proofing - Mesh Networking As Insurance Against ISP Attack

[td services]

Yes, open source drones have already been programmed with this kind of agility at universities. Videos and a lot of good info on drones and drone nets are available at the John Robb site, http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2013/01/index.html .

[Carlton Banks]

P2P transport is on my radar as well. It will be a critical component for a P2P based alternative economy.

I think the 'killer app' for self driving vehicles currently getting little attention is door to door delivery, even room to room with motorcycle sized electric vehicles which can reconfigure to enter buildings. Eliminating the driver eliminates the need for large vehicles in most cases. P2P transport of single packages eliminates the need for heavy duty packaging to protect contents during handling and stacking. Convoys with 24/7 power generation vehicles can extend the range for long distance transport.

P2P VTOL aerial drone mesh transport networks as Carlton discussed are also a possibility. Drones are the only way I can think of to safely handle automated Bitcoin/Cash exchange. A drone can drop a cash packet from a safe height in exchange for Bitcoin. A deposit in BTC could also insure the safety of the drone during the exchange. A drone could drop a container for cash pick-up, which the customer loads with cash and tosses into the air for the drone to catch to purchase BTC for cash.

I expect that the Dread Pirate Roberts would do himself a big favour to support the availability of these sorts of tech-solutions, then that "we won the war on drugs" rhetoric wouldn't sound quite so over-confident.

[td services]

Oops, caught on now that you were suggesting drones to carry meshnet nodes, not the 'matternet' app. I've considered solar powered lighter-than-air for wireless networking platforms. Use hydrogen instead of helium, replenish lost hydrogen by electrolysis of atmospheric water, electric motors and props for station keeping.

[TheButterZone]

Topical: http://skydrone.aero/

[Rassah]

Oops, caught on now that you were suggesting drones to carry meshnet nodes, not the 'matternet' app. I've considered solar powered lighter-than-air for wireless networking platforms. Use hydrogen instead of helium, replenish lost hydrogen by electrolysis of atmospheric water, electric motors and props for station keeping.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Is this possible? To create a blimp that uses solar top stay in the air indefinitely?

[td services]

Yes, main limit if any would be materials degradation, mostly from UV. Solar cells last at least 10 years, use UV resistant outer skin, maybe aluminum foil. Lithium or metal hydride batteries for night time power will need replacing every few years. Water can be condensed from air for hydrogen replenishment. A small volume of water produces a lot of H2 gas.

[TraderTimm]

It is a heady thought isn't it, combining the need for ubiquitous communications with existing and nearly-in-production technologies to make a physical comms/delivery network.

Seriously, if DPR put a small fraction of his funds into developing such a thing, it would be nearly unstoppable. The real challenge is the design of the physicals, do you go with quality, or just easily replaceable parts? If I can print out most of a drone, do I really care about anything else than it will last for 'n' number of flight hours?

Even better if the flexible solar materials come to production, then you're talking about integrating the cells right into the lifting envelope, using thin films. The only real bulk would come from what your payload is, and the support infrastructure including energy storage.

"Cracking" hydrogen from available water is an excellent idea, and if you could get the efficiency up there - maybe even use that for the motors themselves, retaining power just for periodical hydrogen extraction and transmitter power.

Hell, what about parasitic induction using a conductor and existing RF/Microwave signals? Is it enough to run some minor circuitry while keeping the solar generated power just for 'cracking' hydrogen?

I really wish I had a research space to work on this stuff, along with a 3D printer and a good materials scientist and a electrical/physical engineer.

[td services]

An alternative to batteries would be a fuel cell to convert hydrogen plus atmospheric oxygen to electricity and water, since there is plenty of hydrogen on board any way, and there may be a tank and compressor or lithium hydride for extra H2 for buoyancy control. It's all well developed technology, simpler with batteries, a little more complex but optimized with fuel cells for lower weight and eliminating battery replacement. Biggest challenge I see is getting the service ceiling to 70,000 feet to clear the tallest thunderstorms.

It would be a fun project. I had originally considered it when getting my ham radio licenses for a robotic airship to cruise the world with video for hams to connect to and pilot remotely. It would be a lot easier to do now than it was 20 years ago.

[TraderTimm]

Well, we aren't crazy because Google is trying to do the same thing:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/08/googles-project-loon-flying-internet-coming-to-homes-in-california/

What I want is an open-sourced version that doesn't rely on Google services, obviously. Anybody want to 'catch' one and tear it apart? (Hah, Joking... but if you work at google, consider opening up the project.)

This problem deserves solving.

[Carlton Banks]

Well, we aren't crazy because Google is trying to do the same thing:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/08/googles-project-loon-flying-internet-coming-to-homes-in-california/

What I want is an open-sourced version that doesn't rely on Google services, obviously. Anybody want to 'catch' one and tear it apart? (Hah, Joking... but if you work at google, consider opening up the project.)

This problem deserves solving.

Interesting, as it grants Google the same infrastructural power that we wish for our collective selves. And so Google, and whatever other players in the same space, would have unprecedented powers of controlling information flow, and all in a highly reconfigurable, fault/sabotage tolerant manner. Would such an organisation need to answer to any ground based legislators, both legally or physically? The incentive to put in the resources to keep the network running (....skynet? oh crap) would be high, as without it, information control is out of your hands (we'd perhaps all agree that information is the most desirable of commodities, it seems to preclude the obtaining of any other commodity)

[Elwar]

High altitude airships. I have done some work with these for the military.

http://www.dailywireless.org/2006/05/11/big-brother-blimp/

[td services]

Seriously, if DPR put a small fraction of his funds into developing such a thing, it would be nearly unstoppable. The real challenge is the design of the physicals, do you go with quality, or just easily replaceable parts? If I can print out most of a drone, do I really care about anything else than it will last for 'n' number of flight hours?

Yes, one approach would be a meshed swarm of redundant, inexpensive units covering an area. Another would be fewer, more expensive units large enough for a phased array of WiFi transmitters like a Vivato panel, http://www.vivato.com/ .

Even better if the flexible solar materials come to production, then you're talking about integrating the cells right into the lifting envelope, using thin films. The only real bulk would come from what your payload is, and the support infrastructure including energy storage.

One possibility is to incorporate reflective dish concentrators into gimballed spherical lifting cells which can track the sun to focus light onto a high efficiency photovoltaic or mechanical system. Catalytic hydrogen production may be an option as well.

"Cracking" hydrogen from available water is an excellent idea, and if you could get the efficiency up there - maybe even use that for the motors themselves, retaining power just for periodical hydrogen extraction and transmitter power.

Hell, what about parasitic induction using a conductor and existing RF/Microwave signals? Is it enough to run some minor circuitry while keeping the solar generated power just for 'cracking' hydrogen?

Too bad spectrum is licensed. Open competition among transmitters with high signal strength might have led to enough wireless power in the air to actually capture. In reality, though, the wireless space would have probably subdivided into smaller and smaller low powered  cells and evolved into an open mesh network in an unregulated environment.

[td services]

Hi Elwar, were you on the Seastead forum? Your nym looks familiar. Like the blimp. Looks like some kind of phased array antenna or sensor array. the evolution driven antenna design is very interesting.

High altitude airships. I have done some work with these for the military.

http://www.dailywireless.org/2006/05/11/big-brother-blimp/

[td services]

For those in the SF Bay Area, there is a meeting Thursday, 8/22, 6-9 pm on a closely related topic, personal clouds. It would be ideal to have personal clouds implemented across an anonymous, encrypted, redundant mesh network connecting mobile devices, personal computers, and bulk storage devices.

http://personalclouds-es2.eventbrite.com/?rank=1

Info on personal clouds is at http://personal-clouds.org/wiki/Main_Page .

[Elwar]

Hi Elwar, were you on the Seastead forum? Your nym looks familiar. Like the blimp. Looks like some kind of phased array antenna or sensor array. the evolution driven antenna design is very interesting.

High altitude airships. I have done some work with these for the military.

http://www.dailywireless.org/2006/05/11/big-brother-blimp/

Yes, I was on the Seastead forum

I worked on mesh radio networks as a contractor for the military for about 7 years. In rough terrains UAVs and blimps are essential. Though my work was all in simulating the network as opposed to any actual hardware.

[TraderTimm]

"Cracking" hydrogen from available water is an excellent idea, and if you could get the efficiency up there - maybe even use that for the motors themselves, retaining power just for periodical hydrogen extraction and transmitter power.

Hell, what about parasitic induction using a conductor and existing RF/Microwave signals? Is it enough to run some minor circuitry while keeping the solar generated power just for 'cracking' hydrogen?

Too bad spectrum is licensed. Open competition among transmitters with high signal strength might have led to enough wireless power in the air to actually capture. In reality, though, the wireless space would have probably subdivided into smaller and smaller low powered  cells and evolved into an open mesh network in an unregulated environment.

I meant in the sense of capturing available RF for low-power consumption, not transmitting on an already crowded band of frequencies.

"Why are all these balloon things in the path of our microwave link?" Haha.

The practicality of such a thing is probably not worth it, or we'd see a lot of things using that method to convert RF to microvolts to get some free power. I'm not an electrical engineer, but passive capture is possible depending on the signal strength and specific frequency you're aiming to "harvest".

Thanks for posting everyone, great reading material.

[td services]

Too bad spectrum is licensed. Open competition among transmitters with high signal strength might have led to enough wireless power in the air to actually capture. In reality, though, the wireless space would have probably subdivided into smaller and smaller low powered  cells and evolved into an open mesh network in an unregulated environment.

I meant in the sense of capturing available RF for low-power consumption, not transmitting on an already crowded band of frequencies.

I was being somewhat facetious, like there being so many transmitters crowding the airwaves trying to beat each other with more power that it could be captured from the air and used for energy.

[TraderTimm]

I meant in the sense of capturing available RF for low-power consumption, not transmitting on an already crowded band of frequencies.

I was being somewhat facetious, like there being so many transmitters crowding the airwaves trying to beat each other with more power that it could be captured from the air and used for energy.

Haha, I see - the "noise floor" would be so high it would be like humidity in the air!

Hopefully not

[TraderTimm]

I'd like to mention Nightweb, a decentralized way to share text and images - which is much in the spirit of Bitcoin. It runs over I2P, and before you go running in horror because you think it will be too "slow", it actually runs decently.

Check it out here - https://nightweb.net

They have a standalone desktop client, which is just an executable .jar and an android app. It is beta software, so there will be changes and such, but so far it seems rather interesting.

There's a reddit for it as well here - http://www.reddit.com/r/Nightweb

[niko]

Don't forget the HAWP.