Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action

[bcp19]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.

Followed by:

BFL: 7PH and rising.

Oops. bcp19 was asked to provide evidence of that 7PH and rising claim, but of course could not.
There are many more examples of bcp19 confusing fact and fan-fiction. 

What you fail to note is that they asked for a GUESTIMATE of how mant TH of preorders each company has.  A guess is a guess.  I never claimed it to be fact, it was, is and always will be a guess.  While you think cutting and pasting little anecdotes is cute and funny, in reality it is rather sad.  Instead fo trying to find REAL proof of anything, you manufacture it and mis-repesent it.  Grow up already.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote BFL forum

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/nachen/307-monarch-issue-group.html

https://groups.google.com/d/forum/monarch-issue

"Monarch issue group

Our problem:
a) On 08/17/2013 BFL announces that 65nm orders can be transferred to 28 nm orders.
If the customer accepts, the selected 65nm order is canceled and the customer must pay the difference for the 28nm order.
b) The website does not prevent or show any warning message about a resulting negative balance.
c) In that situation, the 65nm order is cancelled and the new 28 nm order is pending of pay the upgrade. The customer only has two options within the website:"View order" and "Pay upgrade"
d) Trying to pay the upgrade leads to an error message and the order status continues as described in c)
e) BFL stated the 28 nm products will be shipped respecting the pay order
f) Because of e), people with negative balance are loosing positions in the queue of payed orders

Request:
1.- The status of 28nm orders with negative balance should change from "pending" to "processing".
2.- The payment date of such 28 nm orders should be the ordering date.
3.- The negative balance should be refunded to the affected customers.

To BFL:
We are waiting for an answer. Please, understand our situation. We hope that a friendly solution can be managed. We think this is a bug on the website and we trust you are fixing it. We only ask for our pending orders, for our position in queue and for our negative balance. Please give us an answer. Sorry to be so insistent but it's an important issue for many of us. Understand we are very concerned.

To affected customers:
* Join us in: https://groups.google.com/d/forum/monarch-issue

[DrJoeGrine]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions. I could post my credentials to give my words more meaning but anyone can be anything here as this is the internet. You are probably some teenager with aspirations of getting a free product for your adamant support of BFL.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.  Never mind the available information showing that the twit whining over his July 15th order has over 340 KNOWN orders before his (discounting possible refunds which MAY lower that).

Ask me direct questions and I'll give you honest answers, just like I did for PG in another thread.  Throw BS at me while using smoke and mirrors and I will call you on it every time.

The ball, as they say, is now in your court, are you going to return it or call foul(shill, puppet, fanboi) like you normally do?

Ball still in your court bud. All I keep hearing are assumptions with your interpretations of what is logical in your opinion based on flawed math that you can only assume the variables are accurate. I'm starting to see your angle though. This is purely an assumption but me thinks you got a late order and cant afford to upgrade to the monarch and you don't want to lose your money if the company goes under. Again speculation on my part but your adamant defence of all things BFL stinks of an agenda. BTW I don't think I called you a shill, puppet or fanboi in any of our exchanges. Either way enjoy the koolaid smart guy. ROFL.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote bcp19 BFL forum

"You know, there are so many lawsuit threats going around, I think most of BFL's customers must be Professional Sewers!"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/nachen/307-monarch-issue-group.html#comment7628

[Jaymax]

So , ahh, all of this is just so much crap until someone provides contact info for some US lawfirm they've approached to represent those who have claims against BFL and want to pursue legal action.  Hint - a law firm proximal to BFL HQ is probably a good start.

The one time I've ever had a post deleted on the BFL forums, it was when I was musing about the extraordinary number of day-1 minirig orders, and thinking out loud about how, if it turned out that BFL had provided any kit ahead of the actual payment date for friends and/or staff, it would almost certainly constitute a fraud against their other customers.  I did say that I thought this was highly unlikely - but the post got deleted anyhow.

I guess it's conceivable that someone friendly with BFL could come along late and place an order for a dozen minirigs and formally or in informally make their order conditional on jumping to the front of the queue; but BFL would have to realise how that would put the company at risk, so I'm sure they wouldn't accept such a proposition - still, it's something to ponder.

I converted my order to Monarch within about half an hour of it being available, so I am in no position to demand a refund, and I really don't expect anyone angrily bashing away on their keyboards to actually initiate a legal suit, but even if they did I wouldn't be party to it.  If I get my Monarch in Dec/Jan I'll be delighted, but if BFL were to offer me a refund in the meantime I'd take it.

[Loredo]

I converted my order to Monarch within about half an hour of it being available, so I am in no position to demand a refund...

That's the kind of due diligence that will likely keep BFL in good shape for many, many, layers to come.

[bcp19]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions. I could post my credentials to give my words more meaning but anyone can be anything here as this is the internet. You are probably some teenager with aspirations of getting a free product for your adamant support of BFL.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.  Never mind the available information showing that the twit whining over his July 15th order has over 340 KNOWN orders before his (discounting possible refunds which MAY lower that).

Ask me direct questions and I'll give you honest answers, just like I did for PG in another thread.  Throw BS at me while using smoke and mirrors and I will call you on it every time.

The ball, as they say, is now in your court, are you going to return it or call foul(shill, puppet, fanboi) like you normally do?

Ball still in your court bud. All I keep hearing are assumptions with your interpretations of what is logical in your opinion based on flawed math that you can only assume the variables are accurate. I'm starting to see your angle though. This is purely an assumption but me thinks you got a late order and cant afford to upgrade to the monarch and you don't want to lose your money if the company goes under. Again speculation on my part but your adamant defence of all things BFL stinks of an agenda. BTW I don't think I called you a shill, puppet or fanboi in any of our exchanges. Either way enjoy the koolaid smart guy. ROFL.

I could quote a listing of assets, but then I'd just be bragging in your eyes.  I can point to the fact that I have a military retirement coming in and between it and SS when I can apply will allow me to live quite comfortably for the rest of my days, but that would still mean nothing to you.  I can state in full honesty that I have 1 order for 1 Jalapeno placed in early June.  That is SUCH a huge order, yes, I need to clear out the dregs so I get mine sooner and start claiming my fair share of BTC.

Are you unable to think of any questions?  Are you so intent on your delusions that you won't even try to glean a kernal of truth when it's handed to you?  I've played devil's advocate to your narcissistic prattling, yet you can do nothing more than belittle?  C'mon dude, climb down the rabbit hole and see where it leads.

[k9quaint]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.

Followed by:

BFL: 7PH and rising.

Oops. bcp19 was asked to provide evidence of that 7PH and rising claim, but of course could not.
There are many more examples of bcp19 confusing fact and fan-fiction. 

What you fail to note is that they asked for a GUESTIMATE of how mant TH of preorders each company has.  A guess is a guess.  I never claimed it to be fact, it was, is and always will be a guess.  While you think cutting and pasting little anecdotes is cute and funny, in reality it is rather sad.  Instead fo trying to find REAL proof of anything, you manufacture it and mis-repesent it.  Grow up already.

Guesstimate: an estimate based on a mixture of guesswork and calculation.
When asked for your calculation, you could provide none. Of course, you could provide your calculations for the 7PH here. Then we could ridicule them and send you on your way. But I doubt someone with as much pride as you would risk showing your work. 

[polrpaul]

thanks for the head's up - let us know how you make out with this. 

[Jaymax]

I converted my order to Monarch within about half an hour of it being available, so I am in no position to demand a refund...

That's the kind of due diligence that will likely keep BFL in good shape for many, many, layers to come.

Meh, five grand I'd already written off against 100GH/s with delivery well into 2014 at current production rates, if ever, vs five grand written off against 600GH/s - not a difficult decision.  I should have been more diligent back in April, but the move to Monarch was a rational no brainer.

[bcp19]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.

Followed by:

BFL: 7PH and rising.

Oops. bcp19 was asked to provide evidence of that 7PH and rising claim, but of course could not.
There are many more examples of bcp19 confusing fact and fan-fiction. 

What you fail to note is that they asked for a GUESTIMATE of how mant TH of preorders each company has.  A guess is a guess.  I never claimed it to be fact, it was, is and always will be a guess.  While you think cutting and pasting little anecdotes is cute and funny, in reality it is rather sad.  Instead fo trying to find REAL proof of anything, you manufacture it and mis-repesent it.  Grow up already.

Guesstimate: an estimate based on a mixture of guesswork and calculation.
When asked for your calculation, you could provide none. Of course, you could provide your calculations for the 7PH here. Then we could ridicule them and send you on your way. But I doubt someone with as much pride as you would risk showing your work. 

I stated then, as I do now, they were from another post that I looked for and did not find.

Using information from http://bfl.ptz.ro/ as a guide, on average you see .1TH of network speed per order placed.  Since ASIC orders start around 1600 due to upgraded FPGA orders, the then order numbers into the 72,000's indicated over 70,000 potential orders.  Simple math gets you from .1TH * 70,000 = 7PH.  This did not take into account, as I said, cancelled or refunded orders.  It was a guess of the TOTAL ORDERBOOK.

[DrJoeGrine]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions. I could post my credentials to give my words more meaning but anyone can be anything here as this is the internet. You are probably some teenager with aspirations of getting a free product for your adamant support of BFL.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.  Never mind the available information showing that the twit whining over his July 15th order has over 340 KNOWN orders before his (discounting possible refunds which MAY lower that).

Ask me direct questions and I'll give you honest answers, just like I did for PG in another thread.  Throw BS at me while using smoke and mirrors and I will call you on it every time.

The ball, as they say, is now in your court, are you going to return it or call foul(shill, puppet, fanboi) like you normally do?

Ball still in your court bud. All I keep hearing are assumptions with your interpretations of what is logical in your opinion based on flawed math that you can only assume the variables are accurate. I'm starting to see your angle though. This is purely an assumption but me thinks you got a late order and cant afford to upgrade to the monarch and you don't want to lose your money if the company goes under. Again speculation on my part but your adamant defence of all things BFL stinks of an agenda. BTW I don't think I called you a shill, puppet or fanboi in any of our exchanges. Either way enjoy the koolaid smart guy. ROFL.

I could quote a listing of assets, but then I'd just be bragging in your eyes.  I can point to the fact that I have a military retirement coming in and between it and SS when I can apply will allow me to live quite comfortably for the rest of my days, but that would still mean nothing to you.  I can state in full honesty that I have 1 order for 1 Jalapeno placed in early June.  That is SUCH a huge order, yes, I need to clear out the dregs so I get mine sooner and start claiming my fair share of BTC.

Are you unable to think of any questions?  Are you so intent on your delusions that you won't even try to glean a kernal of truth when it's handed to you?  I've played devil's advocate to your narcissistic prattling, yet you can do nothing more than belittle?  C'mon dude, climb down the rabbit hole and see where it leads.

Again you make statements of facts with no proof. Still waiting for you to post substance and not rhetoric.

[DrJoeGrine]

I also like how this guy is trying his hardest to derail this thread with every turn. LOLZ.

[bcp19]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions. I could post my credentials to give my words more meaning but anyone can be anything here as this is the internet. You are probably some teenager with aspirations of getting a free product for your adamant support of BFL.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.  Never mind the available information showing that the twit whining over his July 15th order has over 340 KNOWN orders before his (discounting possible refunds which MAY lower that).

Ask me direct questions and I'll give you honest answers, just like I did for PG in another thread.  Throw BS at me while using smoke and mirrors and I will call you on it every time.

The ball, as they say, is now in your court, are you going to return it or call foul(shill, puppet, fanboi) like you normally do?

Ball still in your court bud. All I keep hearing are assumptions with your interpretations of what is logical in your opinion based on flawed math that you can only assume the variables are accurate. I'm starting to see your angle though. This is purely an assumption but me thinks you got a late order and cant afford to upgrade to the monarch and you don't want to lose your money if the company goes under. Again speculation on my part but your adamant defence of all things BFL stinks of an agenda. BTW I don't think I called you a shill, puppet or fanboi in any of our exchanges. Either way enjoy the koolaid smart guy. ROFL.

I could quote a listing of assets, but then I'd just be bragging in your eyes.  I can point to the fact that I have a military retirement coming in and between it and SS when I can apply will allow me to live quite comfortably for the rest of my days, but that would still mean nothing to you.  I can state in full honesty that I have 1 order for 1 Jalapeno placed in early June.  That is SUCH a huge order, yes, I need to clear out the dregs so I get mine sooner and start claiming my fair share of BTC.

Are you unable to think of any questions?  Are you so intent on your delusions that you won't even try to glean a kernal of truth when it's handed to you?  I've played devil's advocate to your narcissistic prattling, yet you can do nothing more than belittle?  C'mon dude, climb down the rabbit hole and see where it leads.

Again you make statements of facts with no proof. Still waiting for you to post substance and not rhetoric.

I state again, if you want proof, you are more than welcome to come to my house and see it.  Considering the juvenile behavior of people like K9, I will not post anything on here because it is not information for the public to have access to where they can manipulate it and make fun of it.  You insist we play by your rules and I insist we play by mine.  We are at an impasse.  If you are unwilling to compromise, so be it.  You can live with your delusions and I will live with my proof.

[DrJoeGrine]

Actually you are presenting non factual information as Inaba ie Joshua does post here. You are definitely posting like someone whom does not have a high IQ as all you have presented in any post is your assumptions. I could post my credentials to give my words more meaning but anyone can be anything here as this is the internet. You are probably some teenager with aspirations of getting a free product for your adamant support of BFL.

While I have used examples to show things people refuse to believe, I never claimed any of them were fact.  I have said things like "If they shipped 1.5TH a day, this would be the result" and I have performed the calculations based on that IF.  People have made statements that shipping has stalled all because Singles: July 4 appeared 2 days in a row.  From there they make claims that BFL is intentionally NOT shipping to FORCE people to switch orders.  Never mind the available information showing that the twit whining over his July 15th order has over 340 KNOWN orders before his (discounting possible refunds which MAY lower that).

Ask me direct questions and I'll give you honest answers, just like I did for PG in another thread.  Throw BS at me while using smoke and mirrors and I will call you on it every time.

The ball, as they say, is now in your court, are you going to return it or call foul(shill, puppet, fanboi) like you normally do?

Ball still in your court bud. All I keep hearing are assumptions with your interpretations of what is logical in your opinion based on flawed math that you can only assume the variables are accurate. I'm starting to see your angle though. This is purely an assumption but me thinks you got a late order and cant afford to upgrade to the monarch and you don't want to lose your money if the company goes under. Again speculation on my part but your adamant defence of all things BFL stinks of an agenda. BTW I don't think I called you a shill, puppet or fanboi in any of our exchanges. Either way enjoy the koolaid smart guy. ROFL.

I could quote a listing of assets, but then I'd just be bragging in your eyes.  I can point to the fact that I have a military retirement coming in and between it and SS when I can apply will allow me to live quite comfortably for the rest of my days, but that would still mean nothing to you.  I can state in full honesty that I have 1 order for 1 Jalapeno placed in early June.  That is SUCH a huge order, yes, I need to clear out the dregs so I get mine sooner and start claiming my fair share of BTC.

Are you unable to think of any questions?  Are you so intent on your delusions that you won't even try to glean a kernal of truth when it's handed to you?  I've played devil's advocate to your narcissistic prattling, yet you can do nothing more than belittle?  C'mon dude, climb down the rabbit hole and see where it leads.

Again you make statements of facts with no proof. Still waiting for you to post substance and not rhetoric.

I state again, if you want proof, you are more than welcome to come to my house and see it.  Considering the juvenile behavior of people like K9, I will not post anything on here because it is not information for the public to have access to where they can manipulate it and make fun of it.  You insist we play by your rules and I insist we play by mine.  We are at an impasse.  If you are unwilling to compromise, so be it.  You can live with your delusions and I will live with my proof.

Yep moving on.

And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

[bcp19]

Yep moving on.

I accept your concession.  Thank you for the dialoge.

[DrJoeGrine]

Yep moving on.

I accept your concession.  Thank you for the dialoge.

Not a concession just have better things to do than argue with a child. I wish you all the best and hope the koolaid is refreshing smart guy. ROFL.

And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0

[PuertoLibre]

Holy crap. BCP19 is the latest BFL sock. Everyone hail to the king of socks!

A sock? Hmm.
IQ: 148
Attended M.I.T. for 4 terms (could not afford to graduate)
worked odd jobs for 2 years
Joined the military.  Scored in the 98th percentile on the ASVAB.
Trained as an Aviation Electronics Technician
Worked and flew on the P-3C, in excess of 3,500 hours of flight time.
Retired after 20 years.
I sure don't see sock puppet in there anywhere, sorry.

Alright, I take that comment back.

- because no one on the Internet lies
- because anyone who feels the need to advertise their IQ has a problem with their ego

The truth as I see it is that 148 isn't in all actually very high.

I have witnessed very intelligent people (with IQ's slightly higher than 148) who are inept in all sorts of ways. Intelligence is just a small part of the equation in a really swell functioning human being.

(No, I am not kidding)

In either case, that IQ should help him in the warped logic being applied at BitCoinTalk. There is never a guarantee that it will help him (as the mods will no doubt be nodding as they read this).

[bcp19]

Yep moving on.

I accept your concession.  Thank you for the dialoge.

Not a concession just have better things to do than argue with a child. I wish you all the best and hope the koolaid is refreshing smart guy. ROFL.

It was a concession.  You were given a way to acess proof and declined to take it.  Posting any of those documents on the internet in any shape or form would require redactions of sensitive information that the public has no need to know, but by the very act of redacting anything from the document would reder it invalid.  The hue and cry of a full page posted with 3 lines of information able to be read after redactions would be inviting more flame wars than when boxxy crashed 4-chan.  These documents will not leave my premises, therefore your refusal to come  is a concession that you do not care about the proof, and would rather live with your deluded conclusions.

[bcp19]

The truth as I see it is that 148 isn't in all actually very high.

I have witnessed very intelligent people (with IQ's slightly higher than 148) who are inept in all sorts of ways. Intelligence is just a small part of the equation in a really swell functioning human being.

(No, I am not kidding)

In either case, that IQ should help him in the warped logic being applied at BitCoinTalk. There is never a guarantee that it will help him (as the mods will no doubt be nodding as they read this).

I completely agree.