Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action

[ScaryHash]

Please post the PDF link to your class action lawsuit filing here, along with the option to join.

Otherwise, it did not happen and it's a waste of bytes.

Can we have more of these "sue BFL" threads where nothing actually gets done, please?

/sarcasm off

[bcp19]

[Are you so smart that you are mentally retarded
"LONG CON"  Mensa boy .....
So it gets through your UBER brainpower.....This means "NOT" taking the money and running !!!
To reference something simple so you understand MADOFF kept it going for 20+ years
~15%+ delivery and having millions of dollars held hostage ...and wait UPGRADE now for more $$  (and a with a fee) and you can join the new queue of more rich's !!!
Oh wait sorry you missed the express NEW queue but have ended in just the new queue (Plus 2 more months on delivery)
This also has shades of a 419 Nigerian money scam....
Happy REALLY
1) telling all HOW SMART you are
2) Defending the indefensible
3) Basically picking an argument with a large majority of the community who all now think you are a total dick
4) Keep adding all of this extra information about your life as If we are your friends or give a fuck
You sound Sooooo happy !!!
Has retirement left you with no meaning or definition for your life....??
Go play golf I have heard that others find solace in finding some form of mild sporting activity to help fill the void !  

That's the thing, you can only CLAIM long con.  You have no proof.  You can point and point and point, but those are all suppositions and not proof.  The FPGA was supposed to be a long con but then they shipped them all.  Then the Gen 1 was a long con, but they are now shipping.  Now the monarch is a long con... it's a never ending cycle that you have no real shread of proof on.  I could use your exact same analogy and apply it to other businesses out there today... yet they are still running.

Yes, I am happy, I did my research and I made a decision.  It's not my fault you did not do the same.  You can call me names all you like, but since I don't know you, I don't care.  I am happy, healthy, and secure in my life.  I'm sorry if that strikes a nerve with you.  

You say I picked an argument with the majority, I say I pointed out the other side of the coin.  In order to come to any rational conclusion, you MUST look at things from both sides.  Your refusal to consider other things indicates your mind is made up... so why do you feel the need to call me names and try(yet fail) to insult me?  Are you afraid that giving people MORE information is a bad thing?  

<shrug> have a nice day

[DrJoeGrine]

If your intention was to troll then I suppose you were pretty successful, nice job I guess.

With your high ASVAB I assumed they'd have likely assigned you to higher clearance aircraft, there was a guy in basic that was going to do mechanical work on one of the stealth planes and he had a high ASVAB score though maybe there is no correlation.  While some 1N2s do fly with the aircraft most copy mission on the ground far away.

I did know by putting it out there that people would jump all over it, so, yea, kinda to troll.

[off-topic]When I first went to the recruiter, he handed me a test to take and I did.  When he reveiwed my answers, he pulled out a second test and asked me to take it.  Then he gave me a third test.  Then he starting telling me about the Navy's nuclear technician jobs and how they had a $20k signing bonus and all the usual pap they spread.  It sounded challenging so I agreed and he started the paperwork.  After taking the ASVAB and another test, I was taken to see a commander who told me I had done quite well, but, there was a problem.  I had listed having 3 speeding tickets within the last 2 years on my paperwork and I was considered a secruity risk and unable to go into the program.  I then chose to be an Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Technician as they had the fewest number of people in thier field.  Since the P-3 is(well was) an ASW platform, that is where I ended up.  When they combined the ratings I became a simple Aviation Electronics technician.[/offtopic]

And I play basketball with Obama on the weekends. He also asks me for advice on what to do about the middle east and the economic situation as well. These are verifiable facts but I would require you to come to my house so I can prove it. I'm so smart guys, look how hard I'm trying to prove it. My mother is even smarter though and she makes me feel inadequate, so I have to come on these forums of strangers. ROFL.

[bcp19]

Oh yeah, and with 20/20 hindsight we all knew the bitcoin price was going to go to $250+... Suuuure...

No. Incorrect. This is not about exchange rates after you bought your mined BTC. You traded 26 BTC for 8 BTC. There is no single exchange rate that will make 8 BTC be worth more than 26 BTC.

Truth is, people took some risks, and in their opinion it didn't pay off. As much as it seems to be the thing to blame others for mistakes made by people, you really do need to face up to the fact that it was always a risk to do business with BFL.

Yes. Doing business with BFL is very risky. They are shady. They tell you when you will have your product, and when that day comes they fail to deliver. For time sensitive deliveries (like mining equipment) that is very destructive to value.

I did because the risk didn't bother me, in the end it will likely pay off for me.

You traded 26 BTC for 8 BTC. This makes you happy. Some people get their kicks being tortured and beaten. Who am I to judge.
But when you try to convince others to buy BFL to justify your own failures, that is where I will judge.

Again we get back to the paying with bitcoin stuff. That was my decision, and at the time I actually figured there was a good chance bitcoin would go back to the ~$3 range (the price rise already looked like a bubble then). I took that risk, it didn't pay off, but that is life. If I had invested real money rather than gpu time I would only be concerned with ROI on the cash I put in, namely what bitcoin is worth in FIAT today. Now if the price of bitcoin had remained steady but the difficulty had climbed as high as it has, then there would be reason to be pissed off.

Paying with Bitcoin or GBP or EUR or USD or RUS or RMB or HKD doesn't matter. What matters is how much value in Bitcoin you gave away in order to get the Bitcoin from BFL. You gave away 26 Bitcoin worth of value in order to get 8 Bitcoin (maybe less) worth of mining. That is always a bad deal. You will always do better by not making that trade. At the time you made the purchase, BFL promised you that you would get your product in time to make your 26 BTC back and then some.

With the 20/20 hindsight, you may as well say we all got ripped off for not mining more with GPUs when bitcoin first started up, or when OpenCL based mining was developed. It is silly to work on this basis, and the only reason you do so is because you WANT people to feel ripped off, in order to stoke and stroke your ego more. Guess it makes you feel righteous and that you matter in this world a bit?

Is it silly to examine the result of a trade after the fact? Yes, we have 20/20 hindsight and with that hindsight we can now see that BFL ripped you off.  Is the reason you blind yourself is because of pride? We have 20/20 hindsight now that they have finally delivered to you (some people we still don't know how badly they have been scammed). We can see that your trade with BFL was a bad one. What is even worse is that with 20/20 hindsight you cannot see it because of willful blindness.

You gave BFL 26 BTC and they promised to give you back far more BTC in the form of delivering you the hashing power to mine it in Oct 2012. They did not do that. They gave you barely enough mining to get back 8 BTC in Aug 2013. The principal value in mining equipment is in the hashing power and the time you receive it. Your hashing power ordered was 10GH/s, your time to receive was Oct 2012. BFL failed to deliver the value they promised you.

And yet again you miss the obvious. The value of 26 bitcoin in November 2012 was a lot lower than it is now. There is a time component involved, which you only seem to selectively see when it comes to product delivery date, yet completely ignore in the context of what bitcoin were valued at at the time of purchase.
Your argument is false, because it is like saying "You sold bitcoin at $3 a year ago, they're now $130, you got ripped off/scammed!"
It is wrong, there is no way you can twist that around without looking like an idiot.
I'm not blind. I know full well I could have ended up with more cash in hand if I had simply sat on the coin I had and done nothing. I am also not blind to the fact that I made the choice to spend said bitcoin in November 2012. I take responsibility for that decision, which is clearly more than others here. I have not forget all the people who felt mislead because they couldn't get refunds of exactly the same amount of bitcoin they put in before the april price spike. They weren't mislead, they just had buyers remorse and wished instead that they had swapped them for USD.

I think the simplest way to look at it is that buying a machine that makes BTC is essentially buying BTC.  If you want to complicate things and add currency speculation on top of it all then you're right that a time component was involved.  When speculating on currency timing is often everything.  BFL stated an approximate date you'd begin to generate your BTC, by delaying they also threw off any currency speculation their customers were counting on as well as diminishing the amount of BTC they'd generate.  Your tack only makes the argument worse for BFL.  When you buy BTC on an exchange it's important that transactions get executed in a timely manner.  If an exchange held your trade for months on end and you lost a ton of money in the conversion then the exchange would have screwed you, regardless of the potential alternate future where the trade made you money, much in the same way BFL screwed you.

The obvious rebuttal to this is that BFL offered refunds so the second the delays started screwing up customers' potential currency speculations they had the option to refund and buy BTC instead, but this defense is at least partially mitigated by the fact that BFL dangled the imminent completion of their products continuously.  Many customers thought 2 more weeks didn't change their speculative assessment of their potential profits and most ended up like frogs being boiled slowly until it was too late.

Of course I'm not saying that had BFL delivered when promised there wouldn't be customers that miscalculated and made a poor investment necessarily.  However it is peoples' prerogative to make any investment they choose, as long as they are screwing themselves and not other people most here won't care much.  The important thing is to try to hold bitcoin companies to have ethical business practices and keep to promises they make to their customers so that customers have the information needed to make informed buying decisions (whether they end up good or bad).

Bravo!  You can see clearly what so many either cannot or will not.  Keep up the good work!

[bcp19]

If your intention was to troll then I suppose you were pretty successful, nice job I guess.

With your high ASVAB I assumed they'd have likely assigned you to higher clearance aircraft, there was a guy in basic that was going to do mechanical work on one of the stealth planes and he had a high ASVAB score though maybe there is no correlation.  While some 1N2s do fly with the aircraft most copy mission on the ground far away.

I did know by putting it out there that people would jump all over it, so, yea, kinda to troll.

<off-topic deleted>

Please open another topic "My awesome life", we seriously don't care here...

Really? Yet you cared enough to respond.  Funny that.

[bcp19]

And I play basketball with Obama on the weekends. He also asks me for advice on what to do about the middle east and the economic situation as well. These are verifiable facts but I would require you to come to my house so I can prove it. I'm so smart guys, look how hard I'm trying to prove it. My mother is even smarter though and she makes me feel inadequate, so I have to come on these forums of strangers. ROFL.

Congratulations.  I hope you and the president enjoy your outings.

 I'm afraid I cannot come to your house, I have this "stranger danger" vibe going off in my head since you seem to think I am a child.

I'm really sorry your mother makes you feel that way.  Maybe you can see a therapist and discuss that in private and maybe.. I dunno.. grow a pair?

[DrJoeGrine]

And I play basketball with Obama on the weekends. He also asks me for advice on what to do about the middle east and the economic situation as well. These are verifiable facts but I would require you to come to my house so I can prove it. I'm so smart guys, look how hard I'm trying to prove it. My mother is even smarter though and she makes me feel inadequate, so I have to come on these forums of strangers. ROFL.

Congratulations.  I hope you and the president enjoy your outings.

 I'm afraid I cannot come to your house, I have this "stranger danger" vibe going off in my head since you seem to think I am a child.

I'm really sorry your mother makes you feel that way.  Maybe you can see a therapist and discuss that in private and maybe.. I dunno.. grow a pair?

You should try to be original in your retorts. LOLZ

[bcp19]

And I play basketball with Obama on the weekends. He also asks me for advice on what to do about the middle east and the economic situation as well. These are verifiable facts but I would require you to come to my house so I can prove it. I'm so smart guys, look how hard I'm trying to prove it. My mother is even smarter though and she makes me feel inadequate, so I have to come on these forums of strangers. ROFL.

Congratulations.  I hope you and the president enjoy your outings.

 I'm afraid I cannot come to your house, I have this "stranger danger" vibe going off in my head since you seem to think I am a child.

I'm really sorry your mother makes you feel that way.  Maybe you can see a therapist and discuss that in private and maybe.. I dunno.. grow a pair?

You should try to be original in your retorts. LOLZ

Really?  You were the first person to ever call another a child?  I must have missed that, can you link your post please?

[fractal02]

And I play basketball with Obama on the weekends. He also asks me for advice on what to do about the middle east and the economic situation as well. These are verifiable facts but I would require you to come to my house so I can prove it. I'm so smart guys, look how hard I'm trying to prove it. My mother is even smarter though and she makes me feel inadequate, so I have to come on these forums of strangers. ROFL.

Congratulations.  I hope you and the president enjoy your outings.

 I'm afraid I cannot come to your house, I have this "stranger danger" vibe going off in my head since you seem to think I am a child.

I'm really sorry your mother makes you feel that way.  Maybe you can see a therapist and discuss that in private and maybe.. I dunno.. grow a pair?

You should try to be original in your retorts. LOLZ

Please...grow a pair...

[LostDutchman]

Just as a thought, if a number of people were to file individual lawsuits against BFL those lawsuits would begin to rack up a legal bill from Hell for BFL.

Much easier than trying to put together a class action and would get things started a whole lot faster.

If BFL had to deal with fifty or sixty lawsuits at once, it would certainly begin figuriing out how to get ot of the situation in a hurry.

My $.02.

:0

[bcp19]

Just as a thought, if a number of people were to file individual lawsuits against BFL those lawsuits would begin to rack up a legal bill from Hell for BFL.

Much easier than trying to put together a class action and would get things started a whole lot faster.

If BFL had to deal with fifty or sixty lawsuits at once, it would certainly begin figuriing out how to get ot of the situation in a hurry.

My $.02.

:0

Sounds like a good plan.  Let's overload BFL with lawsuits and make them spend more and more money until we cause them to go bankrupt.  Then the customers waiting could get back pennies on the dollar once the lawyers took their cut.  That is a MUCH better plan than letting them ship and have the customers use the equipment.


LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT!

C'mon people! Take up the chant!!!!

[Bicknellski]

If your intention was to troll then I suppose you were pretty successful, nice job I guess.

With your high ASVAB I assumed they'd have likely assigned you to higher clearance aircraft, there was a guy in basic that was going to do mechanical work on one of the stealth planes and he had a high ASVAB score though maybe there is no correlation.  While some 1N2s do fly with the aircraft most copy mission on the ground far away.

I did know by putting it out there that people would jump all over it, so, yea, kinda to troll.

[off-topic]When I first went to the recruiter, he handed me a test to take and I did.  When he reveiwed my answers, he pulled out a second test and asked me to take it.  Then he gave me a third test.  Then he starting telling me about the Navy's nuclear technician jobs and how they had a $20k signing bonus and all the usual pap they spread.  It sounded challenging so I agreed and he started the paperwork.  After taking the ASVAB and another test, I was taken to see a commander who told me I had done quite well, but, there was a problem.  I had listed having 3 speeding tickets within the last 2 years on my paperwork and I was considered a secruity risk and unable to go into the program.  I then chose to be an Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Technician as they had the fewest number of people in thier field.  Since the P-3 is(well was) an ASW platform, that is where I ended up.  When they combined the ratings I became a simple Aviation Electronics technician.[/offtopic]

And I play basketball with Obama on the weekends. He also asks me for advice on what to do about the middle east and the economic situation as well. These are verifiable facts but I would require you to come to my house so I can prove it. I'm so smart guys, look how hard I'm trying to prove it. My mother is even smarter though and she makes me feel inadequate, so I have to come on these forums of strangers. ROFL.

Brilliant.

[Viceroy]

Sounds like a good plan.  Let's overload BFL with lawsuits and make them spend more and more money until we cause them to go bankrupt.  Then the customers waiting could get back pennies on the dollar once the lawyers took their cut.  That is a MUCH better plan than letting them ship and have the customers use the equipment.


LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT!

C'mon people! Take up the chant!!!!

Dear BFL Fanboi,

They are going to go bankrupt one way or another.  Whether challenged by 50 lawsuits today or one giant class action suit next year they ONLY WAY OUT for BFL will be to declare bankruptcy. 

GET YOUR REFUND TODAY BEFORE THE COMPANY FAILS!

[fractal02]

Just as a thought, if a number of people were to file individual lawsuits against BFL those lawsuits would begin to rack up a legal bill from Hell for BFL.

Much easier than trying to put together a class action and would get things started a whole lot faster.

If BFL had to deal with fifty or sixty lawsuits at once, it would certainly begin figuriing out how to get ot of the situation in a hurry.

My $.02.

:0

Seriously

All i see here is only " I'm goin' to tell it to my daddddyyy  !!! "" threats.

No one have the balls.
Only losers whining like childs.
No acts....nothing.

It's really laughable...what a shame for this "community".

[Bicknellski]

Sounds like a good plan.  Let's overload BFL with lawsuits and make them spend more and more money until we cause them to go bankrupt.  Then the customers waiting could get back pennies on the dollar once the lawyers took their cut.  That is a MUCH better plan than letting them ship and have the customers use the equipment.


LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT!

C'mon people! Take up the chant!!!!

Dear BFL Fanboi,

They are going to go bankrupt one way or another.  Whether challenged by 50 lawsuits today or one giant class action suit next year they ONLY WAY OUT for BFL will be to declare bankruptcy. 

GET YOUR REFUND TODAY BEFORE THE COMPANY FAILS!

Deaf ears hear no pleas for sanity.

[Inaba]

IF BFL had delivered in January as I had thought,I/we would have made out like 1st batch Avalons did,almost

This is why you don't understand how bitcoin works and why your arguments are laughable.  Do you seriously believe you would be the only person receiving a unit?  Because that is the only scenario where this statement would be true, otherwise, it's just plain false.

[DrJoeGrine]

There is a concerted effort to derail this thread. The below will try to avoid this effort.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=280997.0

[Bicknellski]

IF BFL had delivered in January as I had thought,I/we would have made out like 1st batch Avalons did,almost

This is why you don't understand how bitcoin works and why your arguments are laughable.  Do you seriously believe you would be the only person receiving a unit?  Because that is the only scenario where this statement would be true, otherwise, it's just plain false.

Have your miners received FCC approval yet?

[Bicknellski]

IF BFL had delivered in January as I had thought,I/we would have made out like 1st batch Avalons did,almost

This is why you don't understand how bitcoin works and why your arguments are laughable.  Do you seriously believe you would be the only person receiving a unit?  Because that is the only scenario where this statement would be true, otherwise, it's just plain false.

When did you know that your company would not be able to ship your products on time to everyone?

[Bicknellski]

IF BFL had delivered in January as I had thought,I/we would have made out like 1st batch Avalons did,almost

This is why you don't understand how bitcoin works and why your arguments are laughable.  Do you seriously believe you would be the only person receiving a unit?  Because that is the only scenario where this statement would be true, otherwise, it's just plain false.

Why are you not refunding everyone according to FTC regulations?

Why did you lie to your customers about refund policies on your own forums?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-13.html

LE;PR - Long Enough; Please Read!
Quote Originally Posted by BFL_Josh  View Post
... "All sales are final" has been on the website since day 1. It wasn't hidden in fine print, it wasn't in unintelligible language. It was clear, concise and very visible. ...
LIE. You've stated this several times. Why? Us early customers know exactly what is going on. Let's take another trip, fall, and faceplant down memory lane...