Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action

[Red_Wolf_2]

There is no failure to communicate here.  There are no semantics.  The definition of "screen" in this context is absolutely clear, as there is no other definition of screen that would apply in context.  You asked for exactly what I gave you, here let me post it again:

Josh, would you be so kind as to state which, what and when the screen was passed by the FCC? Us monumental assholes ain't got a clue as to how the FCC site works and desperately need your expertise in helping us find the info.

Your failure to understand what you are asking for is not a failure to communicate.  It's your failure to understand the situation, which has been what you've been doing for the past 3 months.  It is not a failure on my part.  Pay up and shut up, or are you going to weasel out of this commitment, too?

--> http://buttcoin.org/butterfly-labs-mini-rig-is-a-huge-broken-unstable-piece-of-shit

Also, if you didn’t notice, the LCD/Phone thingy in the front has been replaced by … a piece of cardboard spray painted black. Wonderful.

You don't need an FCC cert for a piece of cardboard.

Oh please, buttcoin as a reference? Pass.....

To those yelling about the FCC and CE stuff, keep this in mind. Bring one to the attention of the authorities and you will bring them all to their attention. This would be trouble for ALL ASIC manufacturers, not just BFL.

What happens if one sells or imports non-compliant digital devices?
As explained earlier, the form of authorization that is required for a digital device depends on how the device will be marketed. The FCC rules are designed to control the marketing of digital devices and, to a lesser extent, their use. If someone purchases a non-compliant digital device, uses it, causes interference to authorized radio communications, and is the subject of an FCC interference investigation, the user will be told to stop operating the device until the interference problem is corrected.
However, the person (or company) that sold this non-compliant digital device to the user has violated the FCC marketing rules in Part 2 as well as federal law and may be subject to an enforcement action by the Commission's Field Operations Bureau that could result in one or more of the following:
Section 15.5
Section 2.803
Section 2.805
Section 2.806
Section 2.1203
47 U.S.C. 501
and 503
18 U.S.C. 3571
o forfeiture of all non-compliant equipment
o $100,000/$200,000 criminal penalty for an individual/organization
o a criminal fine totalling twice the gross gain obtained from sales of the non-compliant equipment
o an administrative fine totalling $10,000/day per violation
It is the act of selling or leasing, offering to sell or lease, or importing a digital device that has not gone through the appropriate FCC equipment authorization procedure that is a violation of the Commission's rules and federal law

Now, this aspect of the law is more designed to protect against devices that push out a whole pile of radio noise that interferes with your phones, tvs, radio, GPS devices, etc. Pretty much if a device screws with legitimate services they will get pissed about it. Now as far as I know, the Jalapenos don't seem to emit any RF noise whatsoever when operated in the box. Nothing in the case operates at a particularly high frequency (1ghz+) as far as I could see, instead we've got an MCU clocked at some multiple of 16 MHz, and ASICs clocked at maybe 250-300MHz? The gaps on the fan slots are narrow enough to reflect that kind of RF noise and keep it inside the box.

Anyway, back on topic. If you did want to get one manufacturer taken out by the FCC, all of the others would not be far behind. That would mean no more legal imports or US based manufacturing without the FCC certifications, and the possibility of all US based customers being told to shut their devices down.
Might be a good way to put a huge dent in the US based mining game... Pretty stupid really I think. It certainly won't get anyone their mining gear any faster.

[Red_Wolf_2]

Basically the FCC is there to stop dodgy, crap quality equipment like cordless phones that splatter interference across the band in the wrong frequencies and GPS disruptors/jammers. Things that affect the airwaves.

[Bicknellski]

Status update: my lawyer looked at the case and the evidence. He confirmed my expectations:

• The defendant is in US, same as the court to address with this case.
• The evidence is all in English so there is no need for certified translations.
• I don't need to come personally to the court, but I need an US attorney then.
• The case sounds solid and a beginner-level lawyer should have no problems winning it in the first hearing.

Phase two: I'm looking for an attorney in US.

What BFL gear have you ordered ?

1x Single SC. I know that it nearly is not worth the effort, but I'm fed up of the infamous company bullshit communication and their fraudulent advertising and sales practices.

I feel your pain brother... If only they were reputable.

[mah87]

Status update: my lawyer looked at the case and the evidence. He confirmed my expectations:

• The defendant is in US, same as the court to address with this case.
• The evidence is all in English so there is no need for certified translations.
• I don't need to come personally to the court, but I need an US attorney then.
• The case sounds solid and a beginner-level lawyer should have no problems winning it in the first hearing.

Phase two: I'm looking for an attorney in US.

What BFL gear have you ordered ?

1x Single SC. I know that it nearly is not worth the effort, but I'm fed up of the infamous company bullshit communication and their fraudulent advertising and sales practices.

I'll join your effort

[Bicknellski]

Nice bit of info for this thread repost it here for those seeking legal route.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279404.msg2985403#msg2985403

Re: Don't buy anything from BUTTERFLY LABS ===> Big SCAMMERS EVER!
Today at 19:54:32
Quote from: CrashX on August 22, 2013, 17:38:38

For those leaving in the States,

If you have purchase a product from BFL and you haven't received it. And you waited at least 2 to 3 months and have requested a refund and you haven't received one.

You could sue for not issuing  refund, there is two type of lawsuits, for small claims I wrote in details the process below.


    File a Small Claim in your county/city court.  Each county has its a limit on how much you could sue a person or company for. Here is Tucson, AZ were I'm from its $2,500 max.

    You don't need an Attorney,

    Just fill the form, [Write in details your claim] you will have to pay a small fee, Here Tucson, AZ is 25.00,
                                   ^^Type out in a computer and just submitted with your claim^^

    Then you need to send them CERTIFIED LETTER with a copy of the lawsuit and copy of your invoice and your full details.
                                               ^^with signature required and returned proof, this will cost you $5 at the USPS

    They will have 3 options
         1. they settle the claim stating that they have issue you a refund and for you to drop the lawsuit and agree to it
         2. Challenge your claim and op to go court...They will respond to court in which they need to send you a copy of there response.
           I. If they want to challenge you, that means they need to travel all the way to your court.
           II. with there response you will know what they are planning.
         3. They don't response, then you go to court by your self and Win the case, because the defendant didn't show up.
           I. If you win by default the Judge will issue you a judgment, in which you could use to make them pay or have the company locked down with everything inside, if they refuse to pay.

Small Claims are pretty easy to do, just make sure do everything required.

I'm pretty good at it will help you out with paper work

[Viceroy]

Basically the FCC is there to stop dodgy, crap quality equipment like cordless phones that splatter interference across the band in the wrong frequencies and GPS disruptors/jammers. Things that affect the airwaves.

And so they MUST be alerted to ALL mining hardware.   When my design is complete I'll be submitting it for review and anyone who does not is a criminal; read BFL.

[Red_Wolf_2]

Basically the FCC is there to stop dodgy, crap quality equipment like cordless phones that splatter interference across the band in the wrong frequencies and GPS disruptors/jammers. Things that affect the airwaves.

And so they MUST be alerted to ALL mining hardware.   When my design is complete I'll be submitting it for review and anyone who does not is a criminal; read BFL.

Hope you've got a spare 10k+ available for the testing, it needs to be done in a proper lab with some very expensive gear

[Bicknellski]

More unrest in the house of BFL?

Code:

Possible fraud or deception by BFL.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4538-possible-fraud-deception-bfl.html#post54449

[Mabsark]

I bring this up, though I know it's pointless:

Can someone point out where I continually said we would definitely ship in two weeks over and over?  I'd like to see evidence of this.  I know the "two weeks" mantra is the rallying cry, but once again, reality and the beliefs of the anti-BFL trolls are two entirely different things.  No sense in arguing about it, as it's immaterial, but I thought I'd just throw that fuel on to the fire... but yeah, another lie from Viceroy et al.  They are just parrots repeating what they heard, as personal research, truth and honesty are something they know very little about.

On another note, I love how anyone who is not critical of BFL is automatically me posting as a sock puppet.  It's totally awesome.  Much like poor Bryan Micon the scam artists "BFL has downvoting bots on reddit!" whine, do you idiots honestly think I care about your pathetic ramblings enough to spend more than a few minutes a day reading and responding to the blatant stupidity, willful ignorance and outright lies that you perpetrate on a daily basis?  The sheer volume of your stupidity would overwhelm ten of me, much less a single me, which is why I stopped caring about you idiots a long time ago.  I do enjoy watching your mindless ramblings, though.  It's a fair bit of entertainment... especially when you get the echo chamber of K9, PL, PG, Bick and Viceroy going in full swing and you are all just responding to each other over and over.  I think the best so far was just over a full page of you nutbags going at it without a single other person chiming in.  I'd love to get you all in the same room and see what happens, it would be like watching a bowl full of retarded kittens try to figure out what yarn is for.  Except the collective intelligence of the kittens would be about sixty points higher.

To be fair, when I placed my order in April you were saying it would ship in about 1-2 months. I've waited patiently like others and even defended BFL against trolls claiming that BFL hasn't shipped anything. But now the end of August is approaching and that was always my cut-off point. You failed to provide what you said you would and I would like a refund. Now though, you say you don't do refunds, despite that being completely illegal. You're legally obligated to provide me with a refund up until 7 days after I receive the item, which I can return for any reason whatsoever.

So, I bought a miner from BFL based on your claims that it would ship within 2 months and that I could get a refund if I wanted one. You've failed to live up to your end of the bargain on both counts. I'll be contacting PayPal tomorrow to get the ball rolling due to you illegally refusing my refund request.

[Xian01]

More unrest in the house of BFL?

Code:

Possible fraud or deception by BFL.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4538-possible-fraud-deception-bfl.html#post54449

 Post deletion in 3... 2...

 For posterity.

---

Regards,


In February this year I made an order for a Jalapeno, after two months or so, I requested by email the delivery and was told it would be for June, so that about the beginning of May, I decided to place another order, this rather larger, which divided into two parts.


Send another email by talking of my Jalapeno, and telling them I wanted to do another order, I was told the Jalapeno be delayed a bit but I could place another order and that in principle the delivery would be normal, i also confirmed that if I request that I would make a refund of orders they would do me no problems.


I am requesting a refund of the two large orders that you make.
In the first post I was told all sales were final and not to reimburse the order.
It took over a week to respond, and they responded by talking of themselves told me I would do a refund if requested another week past and I'm still waiting.
I hope not to be cheated, but I use other than to request a refund, to warn other buyers of what can happen. If this is resolved well passeth to delete the thread for doing bad publicity unfounded.


This has been translated with Google Translate, so it may contain some misspelling. Thank you.

I created a mirror thread to this thread, the Bitcointalk forum.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281586.new#new

Also I ordain in the other forums on mining, I find.

[Trupik]

More unrest in the house of BFL?

Code:

Possible fraud or deception by BFL.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4538-possible-fraud-deception-bfl.html#post54449

I also like the message, which I will post bellow, before it will be deleted from BFL forum. The deletion seems inevitable, because I got removed for lot less severe rebellion there. Here is the post I like, by "defcon":

I think its about time we all call the attorney general and our legal counsel, got a few grand set aside for legal fees but my lawyer said he'll do it for free if he has a cut, im sure many others will as well

fuck with my money and its war, already shut down 2 local companies that fucked me over, my patience is about over, this is getting more unacceptable by the day, them not honoring refund practices set by law? And them not shipping when they say they will? Yea we'll see how well that goes for them People have been sued for much less and got far more than what was expected, imagining all the lost funds that can be considered lost business that can be sued for... gives me butterflies inside, just wait until some half decent lawyers take a crack at BFL, time is running out for them. I have my lawyer working on a case not for refund but for ways to sue for lost profits due to delays in shipment, he is getting back to me mid week to friday.

[Viceroy]

red wolf,

Any manufacturer who can't come up with $10k to certify that their product is compliant with the law is not a manufacturer, they are a hobbiest.  BFL has 10k, but I suspect I'll get certified before them because I am a law abiding citizen of the USA.  (BFL is suspected of being a criminal organization).

Basically the FCC is there to stop dodgy, crap quality equipment like cordless phones that splatter interference across the band in the wrong frequencies and GPS disruptors/jammers. Things that affect the airwaves.

And so they MUST be alerted to ALL mining hardware.   When my design is complete I'll be submitting it for review and anyone who does not is a criminal; read BFL.

Hope you've got a spare 10k+ available for the testing, it needs to be done in a proper lab with some very expensive gear

[Inaba]

PG, I knew you would lie and back out of your commit yet (again).  Once again, you've shown yourself to be a thief and a liar.  You asked for a link to the screen FCC documents, I sent you that.  That's what you asked for. 

Too bad we don't give scammer tags anymore.  You are worse than Matthew, as you've now verifably and without question commited twice to sending $200 if I provided information you requested.  I have now done that twice and you are refusing to pay up. 

Now you owe me $200 and you owe a charity of my choice $200.  Not that you'll ever honor your word and commitment, but what can you expect from someone who can't tell the truth and steals from charities?

Pathetic.

[k9quaint]

red wolf,

Any manufacturer who can't come up with $10k to certify that their product is compliant with the law is not a manufacturer, they are a hobbiest.  BFL has 10k, but I suspect I'll get certified before them because I am a law abiding citizen of the USA.  (BFL is suspected of being a criminal organization).

Basically the FCC is there to stop dodgy, crap quality equipment like cordless phones that splatter interference across the band in the wrong frequencies and GPS disruptors/jammers. Things that affect the airwaves.

And so they MUST be alerted to ALL mining hardware.   When my design is complete I'll be submitting it for review and anyone who does not is a criminal; read BFL.

Hope you've got a spare 10k+ available for the testing, it needs to be done in a proper lab with some very expensive gear

Mining equipment shouldn't need to be certified in my opinion. The BFL fanbois (who were not around for the early seasons of the BFL drama) don't realize that Josh ridiculed the other ASIC manufacturers for not getting FCC certs and then claimed that BFL was in the process of getting theirs:

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified.  We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

Of course, that "Jalapeno" could not have existed (nor the other devices) because as we found out later the chips had not reached BFL from the fab until Feb 2013. When they did, there were major issues with heat and power and their first board design did not work. The issues were so serious in fact that they could not use the original Jalapeno form factor. They had to put them in the singles cases.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html
Feb 8th 2013 - Chips have shipped from the fab and are on their way to the US. They are expected to arrive early next week (Monday or Tuesday), but since the bumping facility won't be ready until the 14th as the earliest, it isn't quite as critical.

The chips were still in wafer form 3 months after Josh said they had completed units sent to a lab for FCC certification. So there was no way they could have sent devices to a lab for testing, there were no chips to put in them. That is the material misstatement that BFL made about the status of their product. Anyone who wants to demonstrate civil fraud charges can add that statement to their evidence list 

[Red_Wolf_2]

red wolf,

Any manufacturer who can't come up with $10k to certify that their product is compliant with the law is not a manufacturer, they are a hobbiest.  BFL has 10k, but I suspect I'll get certified before them because I am a law abiding citizen of the USA.  (BFL is suspected of being a criminal organization).

Basically the FCC is there to stop dodgy, crap quality equipment like cordless phones that splatter interference across the band in the wrong frequencies and GPS disruptors/jammers. Things that affect the airwaves.

And so they MUST be alerted to ALL mining hardware.   When my design is complete I'll be submitting it for review and anyone who does not is a criminal; read BFL.

Hope you've got a spare 10k+ available for the testing, it needs to be done in a proper lab with some very expensive gear

You've missed part of what I pasted above. Please check the part in bold below:

If someone purchases a non-compliant digital device, uses it, causes interference to authorized radio communications, and is the subject of an FCC interference investigation, the user will be told to stop operating the device until the interference problem is corrected.

Those kind of penalties would apply if it caused interference to authorised radio communications. Note also it says FCC interference investigation, rather than just investigation.

[Red_Wolf_2]

Why don't we finish all this FCC junk by sending one of each unit to a suitable lab for testing, and just be done with it. How about all other manufacturers do the same too.

[fractal02]

Any manufacturer who can't come up with $10k to certify that their product is compliant with the law is not a manufacturer, they are a hobbiest.  BFL has 10k, but I suspect I'll get certified before them because I am a law abiding citizen of the USA.  (BFL is suspected of being a criminal organization).

Show us your work...or STFU.
You have done nothing !

You aren't enable to choose the good FPGA board, the good designer....NOTHING. (and your thread is pathetic...you run everywhere but on the the wall)

You are a failure.

And i'm goin to watch you fail...hard.

[Bicknellski]

PG, I knew you would lie and back out of your commit yet (again).  Once again, you've shown yourself to be a thief and a liar. 

Where is your evidence?

[fractal02]

PG, I knew you would lie and back out of your commit yet (again).  Once again, you've shown yourself to be a thief and a liar. 

Where is your evidence?

Man....read the story...you become boring...

[Viceroy]

Josh which testing lab do you guys use to certify your products?

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/TestFirmSearch.cfm


You probably use this one, the only one in Kansas, right?


Rogers Labs, Inc.   
Louisburg   
06/27/2016   
Scot Rogers   

4405 West 259th Terrace   
Louisburg   Kansas   66053   
United States   
rogers@micoks.net   
913-837-3214   
913-837-3214


See I looked through the 302 tests he's done and I can't seem to find any for "Butterfly Labs".  Did you certify the hardware under a different name??