Bitcoin Forum
August 22, 2019, 01:04:52 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 [42] 43 44 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action  (Read 38998 times)
darkmule
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005



View Profile
October 30, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
 #821

Eh im sure they have interns who research technical aspects they might not understand.

More likely they have someone reading incoming mail who immediately throws it out the moment they don't understand something.
1566479092
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566479092

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566479092
Reply with quote  #2

1566479092
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
rnaodm
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 61
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 30, 2013, 03:35:35 PM
Last edit: October 30, 2013, 04:25:46 PM by rnaodm
 #822

Quote

More likely they have someone reading incoming mail who immediately throws it out the moment they don't understand something.

Might depend on the news station, but I highly doubt, especially if the topic is something financial, and currently being talked about on other news outlets, that they will completely throw away a story because they don't feel like looking up the definition of a single word.
k9quaint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 30, 2013, 05:10:08 PM
 #823

In case anyone is actually listening to fractal02, here is his account info.

Name:   fractal02
Posts:   192
Activity:   126
Position:   Full Member
Date Registered:   July 18, 2013, 07:59:06 AM
Last Active:   Today at 02:56:22 PM

He showed up in July of this year and immediately started white-knighting for BFL. Sockpuppet? Or just too many chromosomes?

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
m3sSh3aD
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 31, 2013, 01:46:01 AM
 #824

In case anyone is actually listening to fractal02, here is his account info.

Name:   fractal02
Posts:   192
Activity:   126
Position:   Full Member
Date Registered:   July 18, 2013, 07:59:06 AM
Last Active:   Today at 02:56:22 PM

He showed up in July of this year and immediately started white-knighting for BFL. Sockpuppet? Or just too many chromosomes?

Josh then, why you surprised, he as loads of accounts and he didn't admit to inabled cockroach until someone called him out. He's a 1st class scum bag and 1 of my missions is to make that clear.... Until bfl close doors or josh disappears.....
southerngentuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 31, 2013, 06:26:20 AM
 #825

In case anyone is actually listening to fractal02, here is his account info.

Name:   fractal02
Posts:   192
Activity:   126
Position:   Full Member
Date Registered:   July 18, 2013, 07:59:06 AM
Last Active:   Today at 02:56:22 PM

He showed up in July of this year and immediately started white-knighting for BFL. Sockpuppet? Or just too many chromosomes?

Josh then, why you surprised, he as loads of accounts and he didn't admit to inabled cockroach until someone called him out. He's a 1st class scum bag and 1 of my missions is to make that clear.... Until bfl close doors or josh disappears.....

Careful, He has his big boy pants on today.
Fancy banning me from your forum for posting a quote from the FTC.
How low life can you get.
or is the paranoia starting to set in.
Yes Joshie, the community's majority want you to just go away and die with your corrupt company.
 Roll Eyes

Bicknellski
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 31, 2013, 07:15:50 AM
 #826

http://thomsonreuters.com/press-releases/062013/336459

Quote
The free, 30-page white paper, which includes perspectives from an executive-level compliance officer at a regional bank, an enforcement analyst from the National White Collar Crime Center and a strategic analyst from Thomson Reuters, is available to download at http://bit.ly/11yggGW.



Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
reactor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 250



View Profile
October 31, 2013, 10:57:32 AM
 #827

Got my BFL shipping notice.  Nice to see USPS confirm pickup about two hours after I got my notification! 
Bicknellski
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 31, 2013, 12:49:12 PM
 #828

Got my BFL shipping notice.  Nice to see USPS confirm pickup about two hours after I got my notification!  

How many months was it late?

No ROI for you. Now I get why you want people to know mining hardware is a NO ROI zone. Too bad you didn't get your BFL product when it was promised.


Jalapenos, Little Singles and Singles, the Block Erupters of the current era.


Revenue on a Jalapeno that cost $274 with free electricity is $69 by April 2014 then revenue is less than $1 per month so ROI would be achieved in about 400+ months. Unless of course BTC went up to $100,000 then ROI would only be 2 years LOL


Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
reactor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 250



View Profile
October 31, 2013, 03:18:12 PM
 #829

Got my BFL shipping notice.  Nice to see USPS confirm pickup about two hours after I got my notification!  

How many months was it late?

No ROI for you. Now I get why you want people to know mining hardware is a NO ROI zone. Too bad you didn't get your BFL product when it was promised.


Jalapenos, Little Singles and Singles, the Block Erupters of the current era.


Revenue on a Jalapeno that cost $274 with free electricity is $69 by April 2014 then revenue is less than $1 per month so ROI would be achieved in about 400+ months. Unless of course BTC went up to $100,000 then ROI would only be 2 years LOL


We placed our order when we did and knew the risks, but rather than complain about it we sunk the cost and are going to use the hand warmer for what it is worth.  Smiley

And the main point of contention right now is people passing off hardware they are selling as worth the price.  Supporting the community is good and great, unfortunately the greed of the mining gold rush is basically pushing the community out.  And if selling items AsicMiner style (above reasonable ROI but close enough people can possibly fool themselves into buying rather than straight buying BTC) is how people feel the need to move forward, they'll find themselves sitting on lots of overpriced hardware for self-mining.  There is a sucker born every minute, but the least we can do is be honest about whether hardware is worth the price or not. 

"Support the network" isn't a valid argument anymore when we're approaching 4PH (or there already?), so there is plenty of network and plenty of folks with hardware and cheap power that will keep it going.  As far as new folks are concerned, mining is a money pit that you can only really dig yourself out of if you are a day-one order person or someone with the technical skills and business acumen gets their head out of their butt and charges over cost but under ROI.  Yes the argument is that they can mine it themselves and make more, but that requires time and electricity.  If you sell in that sweet spot there are hundreds of people itching to buy, ensuring you make your return borderline instantly and then you have happy customers who receive hardware worth the time to buy.
m3sSh3aD
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 31, 2013, 03:57:45 PM
 #830

Got my BFL shipping notice.  Nice to see USPS confirm pickup about two hours after I got my notification!  

How many months was it late?

No ROI for you. Now I get why you want people to know mining hardware is a NO ROI zone. Too bad you didn't get your BFL product when it was promised.


Jalapenos, Little Singles and Singles, the Block Erupters of the current era.


Revenue on a Jalapeno that cost $274 with free electricity is $69 by April 2014 then revenue is less than $1 per month so ROI would be achieved in about 400+ months. Unless of course BTC went up to $100,000 then ROI would only be 2 years LOL


We placed our order when we did and knew the risks, but rather than complain about it we sunk the cost and are going to use the hand warmer for what it is worth.  Smiley

And the main point of contention right now is people passing off hardware they are selling as worth the price.  Supporting the community is good and great, unfortunately the greed of the mining gold rush is basically pushing the community out.  And if selling items AsicMiner style (above reasonable ROI but close enough people can possibly fool themselves into buying rather than straight buying BTC) is how people feel the need to move forward, they'll find themselves sitting on lots of overpriced hardware for self-mining.  There is a sucker born every minute, but the least we can do is be honest about whether hardware is worth the price or not. 

"Support the network" isn't a valid argument anymore when we're approaching 4PH (or there already?), so there is plenty of network and plenty of folks with hardware and cheap power that will keep it going.  As far as new folks are concerned, mining is a money pit that you can only really dig yourself out of if you are a day-one order person or someone with the technical skills and business acumen gets their head out of their butt and charges over cost but under ROI.  Yes the argument is that they can mine it themselves and make more, but that requires time and electricity.  If you sell in that sweet spot there are hundreds of people itching to buy, ensuring you make your return borderline instantly and then you have happy customers who receive hardware worth the time to buy.

Your right, WHEN BTC hits $1000 people will be less dismissive, But that is not my point. My point is the BTC network does not need scum like this or we get what we have today with the rothchilds and co dictating everything. We need to route out the cockroach's of josh and BFL (and others) and stop supporting these low life pieces of scum!

YOur attitude is perfect and i applaud you for that, There is so much greed in BTC from people that there missing the whole purpose of what BTC is. It's an idea thats been put into reality. Human existence as never had a truly free market EVER! We are on a tipping point where everything is combining to lead us into a new era. 2012 was the end of an age and beginning of a new one and i see people waking up to the realities that we face and have allowed ourselves to be lead along. But no more! A new world is beginning to grow out of the old rotten corpse that is the current 'system'.

Bitcoin will not last forever, But it will become the first truly free currency and then it will be surpassed in the future by a even better one, That i am sure of. Eventually, we may get rid of the monetary system all together in the distant future but we can all have hopes and dreams Wink

More millionaires were made the year after the great depression.... This ain't no coincidence! There's so much opportunity arriving as the old dies and some people will get left behind in the mayhem that is about to ensue! And chaos is about to happen very soon! But i'm a firm believer in the chaos theory also so i embrace it, As i do death and welcome it into my life as there is only 1 thing guaranteed in life and that is death. Tell the tax man FUCK OFF! Wink
Bicknellski
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000



View Profile
January 02, 2014, 08:42:04 AM
Last edit: January 02, 2014, 09:01:56 AM by Bicknellski
 #831

The time to sue... is now.

1 case won... time to submit more.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1u4v0o/i_sued_bfl_in_kansas_jurisdiction_and_won/

Quote
I sued BFL and won. Since I live in California, I had to hire an attorney in Johnson County KS. I won by default with damages and atty fees awarded, as BFL failed to show at trial.

My case is a matter of public record, case 13LA09619

BFL has now failed to respond to their loss of the suit and we are looking for ways to collect via lien, direct bank account deduction, etc. In addition we will be shortly expanding a second lawsuit based upon the proof of fraud whereby our bitcoins will be returned to us via a court procedure known as 'recession' [where the court orders that you are returned to the same position today that existed before the fraud occurred] and will seek to secure our bitcoins by way of a replevin order.
These processes are time and money consuming, but as BFL continues to ignore the court orders, their fines and fees are increasing from the date of our original judgment.
The chief obstacle for execution of a recession and replevin order is the notion that bitcoins [even though digital] are a type of property that can be 'seized' or returned, by an action provisioned under instructions given to a sheriff acting on orders from the court.

Of course, we crypto-geeks know that this can be easily accomplished, but BTCs are a new "unknown" to the US jurisprudential system, and our attorney has to guide them through the process and allow them to conclude that "this can be done".

If anyone is interested in filing suit against BFL remotely, I have an EXCELLENT attorney-- and since he has already won the first suit, it is a foregone conclusion he can win yours.

Now the caveat: BFL is very skilled at moving its money and its accounts around the various banks in Leawood Kansas. Our investigator has determined that they had accounts in certain banks which are now closed, but we suspect that they are no longer using the registered corp-name BF Labs Inc as the corporate name on the account they use to pay their local employees-- and they DO have to pay their employees somehow.

Speculation is that they have moved to using ADP or another third party payroll system and have masked their accounts.
We are pursuing a subpoena to force a court appearance by Sect/Treasurer Jody Drake to disclose the location of assets.
Anyone wishing information on the progress of the suit and information regarding process and procedures can contact me at info at coinpositive dot com.
This has been an expensive process, but BFL should not be allowed to defraud the public.
If you found this helpful, you can donate mBTCs to this address: 14nu944b3Lpe1yPEAzCoaTyMrs6rsPNbtM
Or mLTCs to this address: LL1LPKCkxJwQpyKphtKqkBoVE7xXi1eZzd
I will try to help as many who ask. God Bless and Happy New Year



Others want to sue. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1u5oqi/want_to_sue_bfl_too_i_purchased_a_1_year_hosting/

Quote
Can I sue Butterfly Labs bitcoin mining hardware company?

I purchased a 1 year hosting contract from BFL, the order is still processing.
A hosting contract is a service where the company, or another company in connection with Butterfly Labs host the mining hardware for you and you earn bitcoins for 1 year.
The problem is that in their FAQ page, they refer to a company, website: kcmocolo.com. However, when you try to go to that website, it redirects to another company, called netsolus.com. I spoke with netsolus.com customer service, they said that they are not going to host for BFL, and that, as the customer care rep said, BFL might be hosting its own miners.

So the question is, will BFL actually host its own miners?
If they are not, then I might just had lost my money, since the 1 year hosting contract is a pre-order.
But, if BFL is being sued by this other guy, then could I still have a way of claim damages if BFL does not deliver service, even though it was a pre-order?
Link to other guy that sue: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1u4v0o/i_sued_bfl_in_kansas_jurisdiction_and_won/
Don't know, and it does not say, whether that person's lawsuit relates to a 1 year hosting contract or the purchase of bitcoin miner.
If I can sue BFL, I want to sue for damages and attorney's fee paid by them, for the incurred lost, that is in the event they don't deliver service.


Class Action?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1kzl0p/im_thinking_of_starting_a_class_action_suit_with/

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
Trupik
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 119
Merit: 10



View Profile
January 02, 2014, 01:01:49 PM
 #832

My salutation to the man who endured this. Now that the fraud is proven in the civil case, I hope that the criminal case will follow. It would be nice if the US justice introduced Zerg Joshlan (or what's his name) to the US prison system.
DrG
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778
Merit: 1018



View Profile
January 02, 2014, 02:03:08 PM
 #833

My salutation to the man who endured this. Now that the fraud is proven in the civil case, I hope that the criminal case will follow. It would be nice if the US justice introduced Zerg Joshlan (or what's his name) to the US prison system.

I don't think anything was proven unfortunately.   BFL failed to represent itself at trial (for whatever reason) and the judgement went to plaintiff.

Assuming they're as responsive to legal notices as they are customers they'll see the subpoena sometime around February..... 2015........ or 2 weeks.
Todamont
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 361
Merit: 250


View Profile WWW
January 03, 2014, 11:54:24 AM
 #834

If a class-action lawsuit against BFL is started, I would be interested in signing on as a claimant.
darkmule
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005



View Profile
January 04, 2014, 12:20:32 PM
 #835

The time to sue... is now.

Note, another collection method that is really fun is called a "till tap."  I don't know if that's available in Kansas.  Essentially, what this means is a sheriff's deputy shows up in uniform at their offices and any money that comes in gets immediately seized until the judgment is fully collected.  Plus, the presence of a uniformed law enforcement official seizing money really looks impressive to any visitors of the business.  Also, they have to pay for the cost of having this done.

Defaulting on judgments when money is still coming in is basically an invitation to collect your free money, so contact this reddit guy and find out who he's using.  The guy could probably use the business.

Not legal advice, of course.  I'm just suggesting that I'd find it amusing to watch.
Bicknellski
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000



View Profile
January 14, 2014, 09:41:53 AM
 #836

I converted my order to Monarch within about half an hour of it being available, so I am in no position to demand a refund, and I really don't expect anyone angrily bashing away on their keyboards to actually initiate a legal suit, but even if they did I wouldn't be party to it.  If I get my Monarch in Dec/Jan I'll be delighted, but if BFL were to offer me a refund in the meantime I'd take it.

How'd that Monarch work out for you?

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
andricor
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 03, 2014, 02:13:57 PM
 #837

Nice thread! Smiley
I bought 2 products from them and both died. One within 3 hours, the other within 5 days.
Wrong PSUs, products shipped to China instead of Europe, PSUs that die with electricity outage at home, etc. Very long story...

So far no reply to any of my mails... and my anger is increasing day after day... in the meantime the bitcoin difficulty is going up at supersonic speed and I've clearly lost the time I could have slightly covered the cost of the miners.

LostDutchman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
February 03, 2014, 05:34:58 PM
 #838

You may have missed this one:

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/01/15/leawood-bitcoin-company-faces-lawsuit.html?page=all?betterTitle

"A local company considered to be one of the top producers of Bitcoin mining equipment is headed to court.

Leawood-based BF Labs Inc., better known as Butterfly Labs, has spent the past year defending itself to angry customers who preordered equipment that took months longer to ship than the company promised.

One customer, a man who lives in China and is working with local attorney Robert Flynn of The Flynn Law Firm PC, is alleging that the delay cost him millions in lost revenue and constitutes fraud.

BF Labs produces equipment that allows individuals to harvest Bitcoins.

Bitcoin is a form of digital currency created in 2009 by an anonymous Internet user who goes by the name Satoshi Nakamoto. Instead of a physical coin, each Bitcoin is a long digital string of numbers that makes it identifiable.

Nakamoto "buried" 21 million Bitcoins in a complex mathematical puzzle. They're "mined," or extracted, by solving a block of that mathematical riddle. Each time a new block is unlocked, the miner receives 25 Bitcoins for his work — currently trading for about $25,000.

The riddles were easy to solve at first and could be done using standard computer processing power. But as each new block of Bitcoins is unlocked, the riddle becomes more difficult.

Today, it takes special equipment specifically designed to do nothing but run through possible solutions to unlock Bitcoins. The faster and more advanced the equipment, the more Bitcoins each user can mine.

In March 2013, Martin Meissner preordered equipment worth more than $60,000 with the expectation that it would ship by June or July at the latest. He never received the equipment and eventually asked for a refund — which he says he also never received.

The equipment that Meissner bought initially would allow him to mine 150 Bitcoins every day, netting him roughly $150,000 a day. But as it becomes harder to unlock the Bitcoin blocks, it takes longer for the equipment to find the answer, thereby unlocking fewer Bitcoins.

That same equipment today would net Meissner only about one Bitcoin a day, the lawsuit alleges.

It's a massively diminished return on his investment, Flynn said. It also means that Meissner has missed out on months' worth of mining. Flynn calculates the loss to be closer to $5 million.

The suit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in Kansas, alleges fraud, violations of the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, negligent misrepresentation and breach of contract.

But perhaps the most serious allegation made in the case is that not only did BF Labs fail to meet the terms of its contracts, but company executives potentially used clients' money to manufacture equipment that they kept for themselves instead of shipping to customers.

"Mr. Meissner anticipates that discovery may bear out that the reason behind BF Labs' commercially unreasonable shipping practices is that BF Labs utilized the earliest Bitcoin Miners off the manufacturing line for its own Bitcoin mining endeavors, to its clients' detriment, which would be unreasonable, wanton and reckless," the petition said.

Flynn said that even if BF Labs kept each piece of equipment for one day longer, plugged it in and mined Bitcoins before shipping it out, it could net, in today's trade value, between $80,000 and $100,000 worth of Bitcoins.

"There are more than enough rumblings," Flynn said. "It's naïve to believe everything you read, not to mention everything you read on the Internet, but there are enough rumblings out there that I truly believe where there's smoke there's fire. ... Right now, we have no hard evidence, but I have every faith in the federal court system that we're going to get to the bottom of it, and I really suspect that our greatest fears — and the fears of these thousands of other miners out there — will be confirmed."

The company said those claims in particular were "irresponsible and false."

A judge in the case initially issued an entry of default, which BF Labs now seeks to have vacated.

"The focus is on customer satisfaction with BF Labs and our products," the company said in a statement through its attorney, Jim Humphrey of Polsinelli PC. "And we are disappointed in the filing of the lawsuit. We are taking this issue very seriously, and once we were notified of the lawsuit, we took steps to defend our interests, and we will continue to do so vigorously as we dispute the claims"

Corporations For Crypto
Protect Your Assets and Reduce Your Tax Liability With A Kansas Corporation!
We Demand Justice From BFL
LostDutchman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
February 03, 2014, 05:39:00 PM
 #839

for those of you searching for BFL bank accounts, you may want to look under the name of the actual incorporation terms:

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

Name:    BF Labs Inc.    Status:    Active
Filing ID:    2011-000606261    Sub Status:    Current
Type:    Profit Corporation - Domestic    Standing - Tax:    Good
Old Name:       Standing - RA:    Good
Fictitious Name:       Standing - Other:    Good
Sub Type:       
Formed in:    Wyoming    Initial Filing:    08/02/2011
Term of Duration:    Perpetual    Delayed Effective Date:    
Purpose Code:       Inactive Date:    
Principal Office:    10770 El Monte St #101
Leawood, KS 66211 USA    Mailing Address:    10770 El Monte St #101
Leawood, KS 66211 USA

Wink

Corporations For Crypto
Protect Your Assets and Reduce Your Tax Liability With A Kansas Corporation!
We Demand Justice From BFL
darkmule
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005



View Profile
February 04, 2014, 05:28:16 PM
 #840

One customer, a man who lives in China and is working with local attorney Robert Flynn of The Flynn Law Firm PC, is alleging that the delay cost him millions in lost revenue and constitutes fraud.

This is what basically needed to happen before someone would bring a case.  Because the stakes really do have to be in the millions before it makes sense to try to prosecute a case based on unprecedented legal claims and highly technical factual claims requiring expert testimony.

Hey, some lucky expert witnesses stand to make a load of bucks on this whatever way it goes.

I just hope they make sure that there are actually assets to collect from the scam operation BFL.  If they aren't total idiots, they have already absconded with them.  But look at them on this thread, Josh and the rest.  They certainly look like total idiots to me.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 [42] 43 44 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!