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Author Topic: Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action  (Read 39300 times)
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February 08, 2014, 12:01:23 AM
 #841

Just read through his complaint, pretty damning....

http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf

The last one was in small claims court, this one is in a district court.

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February 08, 2014, 01:34:17 AM
 #842

All of the other laughs in this farcical document aside, this one makes me ROFL the most:

Quote
59. If Mr. Meissner had received the Bitcoin Miners in a commercially reasonable timeframe, he would have mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins with them.

Using http://bfl.ptx.ro is can be seen that there are ~185 "known" (known is a loosely used term as this site has no guarantee of accuracy) minirig orders and of these 120 are listed as having been made prior to Mr. Meissner's order.

120 * 5,000 = 600,000 BTC while 120 * 7,500 = 900,000 BTC.  According to http://cryptometer.org/bitcoin_72_month_charts.html, by July 1st 2013, ~11,079,800 BTC had been minted and as of now ~12,347,125 BTC has been minted.  This indicates that ~1,267,325 BTC has been mined between July and today.  According to Mr Meissner;s estimates of his 'losses' he and the 120 other mini-rig purchasers would have mined 50-75% of all of the BTC mined from July until today.  I think we can safely raise the BS flag on this claim.  After all, it's quite likely that more than double this listed 120 mini-rigs were purchased prior to Mr Meissner's which, by his farcical estimate, would indicate that they would have mined more BTC than actually WAS mined in the last 7 months, leaving nothing for the remainder of you to have mined at all.

This lawsuit is so full of BS that it's take a bunch of BTCtalk trolls as jury members to actually force a win for him.

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February 08, 2014, 07:50:29 AM
 #843

All of the other laughs in this farcical document aside, this one makes me ROFL the most:

Quote
59. If Mr. Meissner had received the Bitcoin Miners in a commercially reasonable timeframe, he would have mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins with them.

Using http://bfl.ptx.ro is can be seen that there are ~185 "known" (known is a loosely used term as this site has no guarantee of accuracy) minirig orders and of these 120 are listed as having been made prior to Mr. Meissner's order.

120 * 5,000 = 600,000 BTC while 120 * 7,500 = 900,000 BTC.  According to http://cryptometer.org/bitcoin_72_month_charts.html, by July 1st 2013, ~11,079,800 BTC had been minted and as of now ~12,347,125 BTC has been minted.  This indicates that ~1,267,325 BTC has been mined between July and today.  According to Mr Meissner;s estimates of his 'losses' he and the 120 other mini-rig purchasers would have mined 50-75% of all of the BTC mined from July until today.  I think we can safely raise the BS flag on this claim.  After all, it's quite likely that more than double this listed 120 mini-rigs were purchased prior to Mr Meissner's which, by his farcical estimate, would indicate that they would have mined more BTC than actually WAS mined in the last 7 months, leaving nothing for the remainder of you to have mined at all.

This lawsuit is so full of BS that it's take a bunch of BTCtalk trolls as jury members to actually force a win for him.

Its not full of BS even if he got the correct amount of probable mined coins wrong.

BFL didnt even deliver his mining Rigs. Deceiving him about the shipment time frame. Your post is infact full of BS. It only take an idiot to see you're a BFL employee. What a piece of shit that you are.
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February 08, 2014, 08:01:20 AM
 #844

He lacks the intestinal and ethical fortitude to tell the truth. I suspect like you said he has been paid to obfuscate what are clear facts about how BFL operates. Everyone should simply ignore him as he has been unwilling to accept basic facts about BFL and rarely adds anything relevant to the discussion anyhow. Need to focus people on the merits of suing BFL. Once the precedent is set BFL will likely need to declare bankruptcy so that Josh and others at the top can walk off with proceeds. No one who has watched what BFL is doing in any depth believes BFL is an honest broker in the BitCoin world. I suspect most customers will never buy again and that is telling.

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February 08, 2014, 11:41:34 AM
 #845

All of the other laughs in this farcical document aside, this one makes me ROFL the most:

Quote
59. If Mr. Meissner had received the Bitcoin Miners in a commercially reasonable timeframe, he would have mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins with them.

Using http://bfl.ptx.ro is can be seen that there are ~185 "known" (known is a loosely used term as this site has no guarantee of accuracy) minirig orders and of these 120 are listed as having been made prior to Mr. Meissner's order.

120 * 5,000 = 600,000 BTC while 120 * 7,500 = 900,000 BTC.  According to http://cryptometer.org/bitcoin_72_month_charts.html, by July 1st 2013, ~11,079,800 BTC had been minted and as of now ~12,347,125 BTC has been minted.  This indicates that ~1,267,325 BTC has been mined between July and today.  According to Mr Meissner;s estimates of his 'losses' he and the 120 other mini-rig purchasers would have mined 50-75% of all of the BTC mined from July until today.  I think we can safely raise the BS flag on this claim.  After all, it's quite likely that more than double this listed 120 mini-rigs were purchased prior to Mr Meissner's which, by his farcical estimate, would indicate that they would have mined more BTC than actually WAS mined in the last 7 months, leaving nothing for the remainder of you to have mined at all.

This lawsuit is so full of BS that it's take a bunch of BTCtalk trolls as jury members to actually force a win for him.

Its not full of BS even if he got the correct amount of probable mined coins wrong.

BFL didnt even deliver his mining Rigs. Deceiving him about the shipment time frame. Your post is infact full of BS. It only take an idiot to see you're a BFL employee. What a piece of shit that you are.

Even if he got the correct amount of mined coins wrong  That's the basis for his whole arguement dude, he's claiming HE could have mined $5,000,000 worth of BTC.  Since what one of you could have done all of you could have done (ala Unacceptable), every mini-rig owner should also be suing for $5,000,000.  Can you even fathom the fact that 200+ mini-rigs put onto the network back in June would have caused an increase in the network speed of 300TH?  That would have tripled the hash rate and cut the mining income per person across the board by 66%.  Even Bickfailski cannot argue that this would not have happened as this is elementary math.  You are like the other trolls around here, since you are unable to come up with a cogent rationale for your arguements, you resort to name calling and foul language.  Any neanderthal can toss out insults and swear like a sailor, why don't you come up with a reasoned and intelligent response instead of rolling in the gutter filth that you seem to live in?

@Bickfailski:  You still amaze me.  The course of action you propose would only do 1 thing: enrich the lawyers.

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February 08, 2014, 12:40:54 PM
 #846

That's the basis for his whole arguement dude, he's claiming HE could have mined $5,000,000 worth of BTC..

So he should be suing for less. Only 200-300 grand perhaps. Doesn't change the fact he got fucked over with false promises and no delivery, not to mention no refund (which is plainly not according to the law)

Lawsuits are usually "ask a lot, get something". His argument is that he was fucked over, you're arguing about the extent of it, not against the fact that he indeed was.

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February 08, 2014, 12:48:26 PM
 #847

That's the basis for his whole arguement dude, he's claiming HE could have mined $5,000,000 worth of BTC..

So he should be suing for less. Only 200-300 grand perhaps. Doesn't change the fact he got fucked over with false promises and no delivery, not to mention no refund (which is plainly not according to the law)

Lawsuits are usually "ask a lot, get something". His argument is that he was fucked over, you're arguing about the extent of it, not against the fact that he indeed was.

BCP19 is a stone cold troll, he lacks basic common sense and logic when it comes to his beloved BFL.  He came on this forum bragging about his super high genius level IQ and yet can't grasp simple logical arguments, constantly trying to use misdirection to muddy the waters.

This prick has a hidden agenda or he is just a retarded moron with massive blinders.
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February 08, 2014, 01:34:00 PM
 #848

He is a paid agent for BFL. Simple as that. Same techniques employed by any number of BFL types posting here.

1. Misdirect & Lie
2. Ignore Factual Information
3. Attack the Person

BFL is going to have a day of reckoning and then these paid shills will simply disappear.

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February 08, 2014, 09:21:21 PM
 #849

I sincerely hope BFL executives go to jail for fraud (again). BFL lied to me and robbed me. I already filed a report with the Kansas AG. This page looks interesting, also...

Kansas city police, fraud department.
http://www.kcmo.org/police/Crime/Fraud/index.htm
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February 08, 2014, 09:26:12 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2014, 02:44:28 AM by LostDutchman
 #850

I sincerely hope BFL executives go to jail for fraud (again). BFL lied to me and robbed me. I already filed a report with the Kansas AG. This page looks interesting, also...

Kansas city police, fraud department.
http://www.kcmo.org/police/Crime/Fraud/index.htm

Uh, dude.............................................................

BFL is physically located in Overland Park, KANSAS.................................................

FYI.

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February 08, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
 #851

That's the basis for his whole arguement dude, he's claiming HE could have mined $5,000,000 worth of BTC..

So he should be suing for less. Only 200-300 grand perhaps. Doesn't change the fact he got fucked over with false promises and no delivery, not to mention no refund (which is plainly not according to the law)

Lawsuits are usually "ask a lot, get something". His argument is that he was fucked over, you're arguing about the extent of it, not against the fact that he indeed was.

BCP19 is a stone cold troll, he lacks basic common sense and logic when it comes to his beloved BFL.  He came on this forum bragging about his super high genius level IQ and yet can't grasp simple logical arguments, constantly trying to use misdirection to muddy the waters.

This prick has a hidden agenda or he is just a retarded moron with massive blinders.
I see you have to resort to name calling and insults as well.  While you view it as bragging, the information I put out when I first started posting here was in truth troolbait.  You and many others jumped all over it, as I expect you to, because you cannot take simple truth as simple truth, you have to belittle it and put labels on it and basically try to shame it out of existence.  Sadly for you, I do not depend on your opinion to know who I am, so your insults are just water off my back as you are just another anonymous troll frothing at the bit because you feel superior to those you consider noobs.

The point you and others fail to see is that it doesn't matter that it's BFL who is getting sued, I would have said the same thing if someone sued Avalon or Hashfast or any other late shipper and made wild and inaccurate claims about what they could have expected.  I deal in cold hard facts, as this guy is using supposition and basically outright lies to obfuscate the truth and make it seem he was wronged to an extent that is not possible.  If he's lying about that, how much of the rest of his story is not also a lie?  You and the rest don't stop to consider that aspect of this, if he's willing to lie about his 'losses' then why would he NOT be willing to lie about the rest?

You bring up 'when I first got here', so let's step back a moment.  Numerous people on this forum told me that I had gotten scammed when I let it be known I had purchased a Jalapeno.  Many of you pointed at ASICMiner and said THAT was the route I should have taken.  So, where would I be today IF I had gone 'the other route'?

I ordered from BFL on June 6th, so let's say I ordered from ASICMiner instead.  2BTC or ~$250 to purchase .333MH VS the $274 to purchase 5GH.  Let's say I received my AM USB in 1 week from purchase and mined continuously until today.  I would have earned .56752BTC if I had gone with AM.  In reality, I had my BFL Jalapeno in hand on Nov 29 and when I plugged it in, it was running right around 10GH.  I'm sure you rabid type will insist that that was some sort of payment for my defense of the company on these forums, but I doubt it, as I would think they'd have shipped it to me early if that were the case.  Anyway, I *have* mined .28504 BTC with my little 10GH, so in this instance the trolls were actually right, I would have been better off if I had bought the USB, but it sure would not have felt right.  I gambled and lost, I knew the risks, as I'm sure Mr. Meissner did as well, and I backed the wrong horse.  Lastly, there's the other trolls that will jump in and accurately point out that I could have just bought BTC and held onto it in a cold wallet and been better off now<shrug> no pain, no gain.

Obviously my inability to grasp simple logic is the reason behind why I now have well in excess of 100 BTC when I have mined so little over the months.  While playing with you trolls verbally in this forum, I also played with financial trolls in the exchanges and beat them at their own game.  The information I used to amass my coins is available to everyone out there, but I was able to get over a 2,000% return while others lost their shirt.  Now I'm sure you're going to try and pull the "Oh, don't you feel bad...".  Nope, we're all adults here and we all know the risks.  I've made my bonehead trades same as others, but I've made far more intelligent ones.  I'm not one of the lucky ones to have heard about BTC in it's infancy and be sitting on millions of dollars, but I did turn $300 worth of BTC into over $100K, so I can see why you'd think I fail to see simple logic.

Now, before you go on yet another rant about bragging, stop.  This is information, pure and simple. and it is true.  It is also troll-bait, as I know you guys can't help yourselves and I love seeing how posting simple truths makes your eyes pop out and your mouths froth while you try and belittle once again that which you do not understand.  So, now that you know the truth, go ahead, jump in, I need a good laugh now and then.

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February 08, 2014, 09:41:59 PM
 #852



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February 09, 2014, 01:43:10 AM
 #853

I gambled and lost, I knew the risks, as I'm sure Mr. Meissner did as well, and I backed the wrong horse.  

No. You did not "know" the risks. BFL misinformed you. Had BFL been honest and forthright with their issues instead of regurgitating "two more weeks", then you would have known the risks. Mr Meissner has a case, it is up to a judge (and possibly jury) to decide what sort of damages are in order.

Lastly, there's the other trolls that will jump in and accurately point out that I could have just bought BTC and held onto it in a cold wallet and been better off now<shrug> no pain, no gain.
Why are they "trolls" if they accurately point out something? Do you have to ridicule people who present facts inconvenient to your argument?

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February 09, 2014, 02:43:40 AM
Last edit: February 09, 2014, 03:15:35 AM by bcp19
 #854

I gambled and lost, I knew the risks, as I'm sure Mr. Meissner did as well, and I backed the wrong horse.  

No. You did not "know" the risks. BFL misinformed you. Had BFL been honest and forthright with their issues instead of regurgitating "two more weeks", then you would have known the risks. Mr Meissner has a case, it is up to a judge (and possibly jury) to decide what sort of damages are in order.

Lastly, there's the other trolls that will jump in and accurately point out that I could have just bought BTC and held onto it in a cold wallet and been better off now<shrug> no pain, no gain.
Why are they "trolls" if they accurately point out something? Do you have to ridicule people who present facts inconvenient to your argument?

<<Random things that have nothing to do with BFL redacted>>
We also don't care what color your cat is, what kind of car you drive, and if you have erectile dysfunction. However, this being the internet, if any of your lady friends have nice tits, we would appreciate pics.  Grin
<Ding> Thanks for playing!

Yes, I did know the risks, as I had read all the troll posts about how bad BFL was going all the way to through the FPGA days, so I knew quite well that it was unreasonable to expect anything within 2 months, especially as they had only just started shipping in minute quantities and appeared to be going through a rework.  I well knew that with the price spike in Mar/Apr that I was MONTHS behind the curve, but it was more palatable to purchase something that would mine 15x as much as that tinker toy did for roughly the same price.  The funny thing to me in all of this is that you all said BFL was a scam and that my money was GONE, etc, etc, etc.  Here it is, 6-7 months later, all those units you said would never ship have shipped and if you order now you can get it from in stock at TD!  Hellova scam to actually ship things to people who ordered.

Why are they trolls?  Why are you a troll?  Seems the questions have the same answer...

Don't have a cat, you should already know I own a Z-28 as I offered to sell it to you months ago and I'll just recycle those pictures of your sister I found on the net last week.

<edit> Realized I didn't answer your question... I'm not ridiculing it, it's just that you and others harp constantly on buying and holding... buying and holding... Zzzzzzz.. Wha?

Buying something and waiting is a snoozefest, and if that is all you have to advocate on this forum then all you are is pathetic.  Spending hard earned cash to purchase Bitcoin means that it then has intrinsic value and becomes harder to work with.  I mined all my original Bitcoins and therefore I truly have virtually nothing invested in them, so I play with them and end up making more of them.  I have freedom now that I wouldn't have if I had spent money to buy them.  Personally I think my purchase was one of the best things I ever did, cause it led me here and led me to alt coins and led me to exchanges and led me to the investments I made and led me to where I am today.  I am richer because of BFL and these forums, but I have not received a dime for anything I have posted on here. 

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February 09, 2014, 07:07:06 AM
 #855

Hey bcp, that's all well and good, but the fact of the matter is that a US company, paid in US dollars, has no legal right to deny a refund before a delivery has taken place. If you ask for your money back, you're supposed to get it. They don't give it to you, you can sue them. How hard is this to understand?

If one was ordering goods from a shack somewhere in a shady part of Asia and paid in BTC I'd agree with the notion "win some, lose some" but the whole point of ordering from a US company and their huge price premium over other companies is some peace of mind that, if necessary, they can be held to account.

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February 09, 2014, 03:05:25 PM
 #856

Hey bcp, that's all well and good, but the fact of the matter is that a US company, paid in US dollars, has no legal right to deny a refund before a delivery has taken place. If you ask for your money back, you're supposed to get it. They don't give it to you, you can sue them. How hard is this to understand?

If one was ordering goods from a shack somewhere in a shady part of Asia and paid in BTC I'd agree with the notion "win some, lose some" but the whole point of ordering from a US company and their huge price premium over other companies is some peace of mind that, if necessary, they can be held to account.
I've already been down this road and none of you like the answers I give you.  There was a chance at getting a refund back in May 2013, at that point they had initial chips in hand, were re-working the board design to accomodate the increased power and heat issues and were committing to the acquisition of the main component of these devices, the ASICs as well as commissioning the other items needed to produce thee units.  Personally, I think they should have just attached chips to boards like so many other 'companies' and let you all figure out how to power and cool them and be done with it.

Maybe they took the wrong route, maybe they should have offerred a refund like so many store do with a restocking fee for the items refunded.  They had already comitted funds to purchase items based on orders, basically just like if you goto a parts store and order a specialty item and then decide you don't want it, they charge you the restocking fee in order to offset the costs you just caused them to incur by purchasing and shipping this item in. 

When they offeres the chips for sale they did this... 50% non-refundable up front, 50% paid to receive shipment once the chips were in hand.

The problem to me is that you are referring to 'normal' companies and this is a niche market.  A lot of time and effort went into the creation of these devices targetted at a small fraction of the population and that means the normal rules do not always work well.  I had a custom 3" exhaust built for my Z28 after I had modified the motor to pull 400+HP and I paid a premium for it as it was a 'niche' market.  I had to pay up front and if I didn't like his design I couldn't exactly demand my money back in full as he had already committed a good portion of that to materials and in his effort.  It's not like he could say "no big deal, I'll just sell it sooner or later' when it might be a year or more before someone wanted a similar setup.

Like it or not, Mr Meissner is the woman who sued McDonalds because the coffee was hot and is probably not telling the whole story.  Personally I would have asked the woman 2 questions: Was this your first cup of coffee ever? and if no, "Do you make a habit of buying cold coffee?"

The problem here is that there are a lot of complexities and variables in the mix.  1) Can Mr Meissner show he has had a 100% up time with current equipment during the time he is claiming he lost money?  2) Can Mr Meissner show he has never spent a single BTC in that time frame as well, as he is asking for damages based on current prices and the total amount he 'could' have mined.  3) Can Mr Meissner prove he would have made the income he claims (ie did he ACTUALLY have that much online at that time, as anything else is speculation)?

I'd be willing to bet there is a lot to this that is not being told.  Let's take a look at his complaint:

Quote
24. Two weeks later, on March 25, Mr. Meissner placed his order, requesting express shipping, for two “1,500 GH/s Bitcoin Miners.”

27. Mr. Meissner wire-transferred payment of US$62,598 to BF Labs via the bank of his company, TradeMost Enterprises Ltd., a few weeks later.

33. Having not received confirmation of the wire transfer, Mr. Meissner contacted BF Labs on May 2, asking for the status of his order.

34. On May 5, “Jody” on behalf of BF Labs responded:
We received your money but the bank tells us only “Trademost Enterprises Ltd” so we were not able to match your payment to your order until we got your email. I have received your payment and sent a copy of your invoice for your records. Your order is processing (paid).

From this it is obvious that he sent the money, but without any identifying information.  BFL was receiving hundreds if not thousands of orders in Mar/Apr due to the spike in the price of BTC.  Personally, if I sent that much money via a bank wire, I'd immediately follow it up with an email stating "I sent this from here" and provide whatever tracking information to speed up the process, not wait a week or more later and then ask why it hadn't shown up.

In addition, by his own statements, he placed his order on Mar 25th, but did not pay for his order for a few weeks.  So he 'ordered', the price went up and then he 'paid' at the old price after debating for "a few weeks" on the merits of his purchase?

Personally I find these statements to be lawerish double-speak:
Quote
38. At one point, BF Labs informed Mr. Meissner that it wouldn’t be shipping the two MRG015Ts Bitcoin Miners (1500GH/s) at all, but that, instead, BF Labs unilaterally decided it would substitute six (6) 500 GH/s machines.

50. In no way, shape, or form did Mr. Meissner ever agree to BF Labs’ unreasonable 6-plus-month delay.

53. Now, more than 8 months after Mr. Meissner placed his order, and more than 7 months after his payment, BF Labs still has not transferred title and possession to the two MRG015Ts Bitcoin Miners.

Wow... 'Unilaterally decided' to substitute... rofl... Gee, doesn't EVERYONE have access to a 90 amp circuit in their house to power a single 1500GH unit?  Why refer to a 6-month plus delay then change to 8 months from order and 7 months from payment?  Also, why state the change to 6 500's and then revert to 2 1500's?  All through this document the lawyer switches from exact dates to statements that leave you hanging.  "A few weeks later"  "6 months plus"  "mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins"

Then there's the Catch-22... since Inaba frequents these forums, everything I postulate becomes fodder for use by BFL all thanks to you questioning me.  How does it feel to be directly helping BFL?

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February 09, 2014, 04:34:23 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2014, 04:48:09 PM by darkmule
 #857


Quote
59. If Mr. Meissner had received the Bitcoin Miners in a commercially reasonable timeframe, he would have mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins with them.

[Troll garbage snipped]

Its not full of BS even if he got the correct amount of probable mined coins wrong.

BFL didnt even deliver his mining Rigs. Deceiving him about the shipment time frame. Your post is infact full of BS. It only take an idiot to see you're a BFL employee. What a piece of shit that you are.


It is rather tricky to prove something like expectation damages, that is, a form of damages caused as an incidence or consequence of one party's failure to carry out a contract.  Unlike explicit terms in a contract, though, these are damages resulting from what both parties could reasonably expect to be the result of a failure to carry out the contract.  Like all contractual damages, they are meant to put the party breached against in the position he would have been in had the contract been carried out.

In this case, this is likely to require expert testimony to prove.  The plaintiff would probably want to argue from historical data, because this is likely to give the best numbers.  BFL would, presumably, argue that you can't just assume that it would have been only the plaintiff who would have got mining equipment had they shipped on time, but that in fact, had they shipped on time, the difficulty rate would have spiked a lot sooner and the plaintiff would have made less.

While expectation damages are a well established principle of law, it is also a fact that courts often do not like awarding them, because they require a lot of speculation and argument.

It might even allow for a larger award to argue, simply, that had the contract never been entered and the plaintiff simply kept the Bitcoins, or purchased comparably expensive equipment from a less scummy operation that delivered closer to their stated ship-by date, they would have made X, but that they reasonably relied on BFL's promises.  That's a detrimental reliance claim.

IMO, BFL has a scummy, but interesting defense (at least to a detrimental reliance claim).  They could argue that even by the point in time the plaintiff purchased, BFL were such notorious liars that nobody could possibly *reasonably* rely on anything they said.  Cheeky but it might work.  (Usually, though, you aren't allowed to prevail with a legal argument based on your own misconduct.)
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February 09, 2014, 07:31:49 PM
 #858

Having read the complaint in speed read mode, one thing jumps out that may make it a dud.

Quote
20. Mr. Meissner wrote again on March 10: “Delivery time: How long would the shipping to this destination take by express delivery? The delivery time is crucial for the planned investment . . . .” (Emphasis added.)

21. Mr. Meissner’s communications put BF Labs on notice that time was “of the essence.”

So far, so good.  They set up that they made it clear from the outset that time was a critical consideration for them.

Quote
22. Dave M. responded on March 11:
Because we have not gotten our production team up to speed, it is impossible to know exactly when your machine will ship from our facilities. If you want that kind of assurance. You may want to wait until we have machines “in stock” to make your order. Unfortunately, it may be this summer before we achieve that status. But our goal is to be able to ship an order either the same day or the next day after an order is placed.
 [Emphasis added by me.]

The only way I can read this is the BFL representative explicitly disclaiming any guarantee of delivery date.

The complaint also cites a number of advertisements and other to the public communications of BFL which are, indeed, deceptive.  However, I would think a person-to-person communication with the company in the course of establishing an agreement would supersede anything said in advertisements, especially when even the advertisements essentially are stating aspirational goals, and not making explicit promises.

I'm not saying the whole suit is a dud, but they certainly led with a dud.

Also, a simple style complaint.  I don't like the use of "on information and belief" in factual allegations that should have been fairly easy to determine before filing suit.  Federal court does not require verified complaints (except in a few specific instances), but saying "on information and belief" is almost outright saying you doubt the fact yourself.  Yes, it's used a lot.  And this is just a personal opinion, I think it looks weaselly and should be avoided wherever possible.  Make sure your facts are correct to the best of your ability, and then if you can do that, say it loud and proud and without qualification.
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February 10, 2014, 02:21:04 AM
 #859

All of the other laughs in this farcical document aside, this one makes me ROFL the most:

Quote
59. If Mr. Meissner had received the Bitcoin Miners in a commercially reasonable timeframe, he would have mined approximately 5,000 to 7,500 Bitcoins with them.

Using http://bfl.ptx.ro is can be seen that there are ~185 "known" (known is a loosely used term as this site has no guarantee of accuracy) minirig orders and of these 120 are listed as having been made prior to Mr. Meissner's order.

120 * 5,000 = 600,000 BTC while 120 * 7,500 = 900,000 BTC.  According to http://cryptometer.org/bitcoin_72_month_charts.html, by July 1st 2013, ~11,079,800 BTC had been minted and as of now ~12,347,125 BTC has been minted.  This indicates that ~1,267,325 BTC has been mined between July and today.  According to Mr Meissner;s estimates of his 'losses' he and the 120 other mini-rig purchasers would have mined 50-75% of all of the BTC mined from July until today.  I think we can safely raise the BS flag on this claim.  After all, it's quite likely that more than double this listed 120 mini-rigs were purchased prior to Mr Meissner's which, by his farcical estimate, would indicate that they would have mined more BTC than actually WAS mined in the last 7 months, leaving nothing for the remainder of you to have mined at all.

This lawsuit is so full of BS that it's take a bunch of BTCtalk trolls as jury members to actually force a win for him.

The defendant will prevail (not for their $5m in damages) but a full refund of their purchase price due to the fact that a refund cannot be denied. No way, no how. Even the document proves that "All sales are final" does not apply because a sale never took place.
In that regard its an open and shut case.

As for damages, there will be some.

Guaranteed.
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February 10, 2014, 04:15:09 AM
 #860

First of many lawsuits that will bury BFL hopefully.

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