Old BFL buyers vs new asicminer prices

[DeathAndTaxes]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20.  The typo seems obvious to me.  1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards.  420 BTC  / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

Originally posted in monarch thread to highlight that good specs mean nothing if while you are still waiting someone a year later undercuts it by 86%.  I guess someone felt it was off topic.  It isn't like the monarch is a new product with good specs and who's ROI is heavily dependent on if it can be delivered on spec and on time by the company who still hasn't delivered rigs that people paid 3,000 BTC a year ago that now have a street value of 420 BTC.  Obviously this wasn't relevant at all.

[bcp19]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1 mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  20 Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

20?  Maximum speed of 12.829GHash/s with overclocking and proper cooling.  20 * 13 = 260.  Are you thinking of Avalon?

[peonminer]

I supposed if BTC value increased significantly more that would change, but in that case you would still be better of just holding the BTC than buying the eruptors.

 You are probably right. Not going to argue the point.

 Either way, I'm having fun

I have an interesting question for you:

We know the price of BTC was ~$6.50-7.00 on July 1, 2012 and that a 1.5TH mini-rig was selling for $29,899.  Let's call the BTC price at $6.50, which would be ~4600 BTC.  Your choices are to either Buy a mini-rig and wait for it to ship a year later or store your 4600 BTC until June 2013 when you can buy 2300 USB block erupters.  We know now the mini-rig order would ship on Aug 5th and the 2300 Block Erupters would be in hand within a week.  If these were your only choices, which do you feel is the better value?

The first hind sight logic i've ever seen from bcp19... oh wait....

It's a very simple question, can't you answer it?  We already know all the answers, so which do you feel was the better value?

How BCP feels when he comments on ANY thread.

[bcp19]

How PEONMINER(me) feels when he comments on ANY thread.

I guess you are correct.

[Inaba]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1 mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  20 Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

3000 BTC value in August 2012 in USD: $30,000
420 BTC value in August 2013 in USD: $54,600

So buy from ASICminer a year later, spend 46% more for 1/6th the hashing power @ 3x the power consumption!  Sounds like a good deal to me!  Not.

Now forgive me, perhaps my information is wrong, but aren't the Eruptor Blades 13 GH/s each?  If, so, how do you get 1500 GH out of 20 * 13?  

FUD much?

[peonminer]

How PEONMINER(me) feels when he comments on ANY thread.

I guess you are correct.

[Jutarul]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1 mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  20 Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

3000 BTC value in August 2012 in USD: $30,000
420 BTC value in August 2013 in USD: $54,600

So buy from ASICminer a year later, spend 46% more for 1/6th the hashing power @ 3x the power consumption!  Sounds like a good deal to me!  Not.

Now forgive me, perhaps my information is wrong, but aren't the Eruptor Blades 13 GH/s each?  If, so, how do you get 1500 GH out of 20 * 13?  

FUD much?

DeathAndTaxes' assessment is accurate. You have to look at the bitcoin price because it accounts for the opportunity cost correctly. Failure to do so leads to forgone profit.

Put another way: Not spending 2580 BTC (3000BTC-420BTC) for a minirig equivalent in August 2012 would have earned you ~ $330k.

[bcp19]

How PEONMINER(me) feels when he comments on ANY thread.

I guess you are correct.

You mean:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvej3gTXAzE

?

[Inaba]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut. 

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1 mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  20 Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

3000 BTC value in August 2012 in USD: $30,000
420 BTC value in August 2013 in USD: $54,600

So buy from ASICminer a year later, spend 46% more for 1/6th the hashing power @ 3x the power consumption!  Sounds like a good deal to me!  Not.

Now forgive me, perhaps my information is wrong, but aren't the Eruptor Blades 13 GH/s each?  If, so, how do you get 1500 GH out of 20 * 13? 

FUD much?

DeathAndTaxes' assessment is accurate. You have to look at the bitcoin price because it accounts for the opportunity cost correctly. Failure to do so leads to forgone profit.

Put another way: Not spending 2580 BTC (3000BTC-420BTC) for a minirig equivalent in August 2012 would have earned you ~ $330k.

Really, so you're claiming that 20 * 13 = 1500?  Wow...

But lets go back to the USD assessment.  The only way your figures work out is if you have 100% prediction ability or you use hindsight, neither of which are considered acceptable investing methodologies. 

Once again, your entire premise is flawed.  If you (or anyone) were so good at predicting the bitcoin price back then, why are you not a multi-billionaire?  If you knew BTC was going to go up, especially as much as it did, why were you not mortgaging the house, selling your mother and pimping out your cats and dogs to buy BTC?  You'd be an @#$%@% idiot not to... yet you didn't, why? 

Hindsight investing is great, except it's a bunch of shit, which is why comparing the price in BTC of anything in August 2012 to something in 2013 is a bunch of shit.

[PuertoLibre]

It's truly sad to see members with higher reputations and post count bunting poor Inaba on logic and math.

For some strange reason, my tears won't come. I suspect there is shock involved.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Wow.  Over reaction much, it was a typo. 120 block eruptors.  It has been fixed.

[Bicknellski]

It be better if there were a section or subforum where standards are important.

Where information is unbiased and to the point this will further degrade into a shouting match and the original information will be lost again but I guess that is what is supposed to happen... no can get the information because with the right information the consumer can make an informed choice.

Maybe it is time we held everyone to a set of standards so that the community can be served in these forums as opposed to be shouted at with a stream of confusion.

[Carlton Banks]

Isn't it a common truism that those that are obsessed with insulting and belittling others are just reflecting how insecure they are? It's like constantly confirming to themselves and other observers that they're the smart and virtuous person, by over-exaggerating other people's flaws by way of contrast.

Just saying  

[Bicknellski]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20.  The typo seems obvious to me.  1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards.  420 BTC  / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

This information is valuable to a buyer. Death and Taxes can you start a new thread to point this out... self moderated and keep the trolls off it.

[PuertoLibre]

How do we make a thread self moderated? Where are the options for that?

[DeathAndTaxes]

This information is valuable to a buyer. Death and Taxes can you start a new thread to point this out... self moderated and keep the trolls off it.

No.  That sounds like a full time job.   However someone can quote it if they like.

[Bicknellski]

I follow most of your posts particularly the analyses you have done and they do allow a buyer to gauge what is actually important.  Wish we had subform for this information... as well as place where the makers of hardware and buyers of hardware could communicate more effectively. Obvious shouting people down does not help it just causes more confusion. It is really time people stop doing that.

Thanks for the valuable info D&T.

[tbcoin]

.....

But lets go back to the USD assessment.  The only way your figures work out is if you have 100% prediction ability or you use hindsight, neither of which are considered acceptable investing methodologies. 

Once again, your entire premise is flawed.  If you (or anyone) were so good at predicting the bitcoin price back then, why are you not a multi-billionaire?  If you knew BTC was going to go up, especially as much as it did, why were you not mortgaging the house, selling your mother and pimping out your cats and dogs to buy BTC?  You'd be an @#$%@% idiot not to... yet you didn't, why? 

Hindsight investing is great, except it's a bunch of shit, which is why comparing the price in BTC of anything in August 2012 to something in 2013 is a bunch of shit.

I'm not a BFL hater, but I recognize that many of us buy your equipment (in addition to buy bitcoin obviously) precisely because we expected this fast revaluation and your initial delivery date was in an acceptable margin to take advantage of it. You have failed and of course that every dollar we spend on your equipment instead of buying bitcoin represents a great loss.

[xstr8guy]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20.  The typo seems obvious to me.  1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards.  420 BTC  / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

Why is this even posted in this thread?  Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

[Bicknellski]

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.  

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013.  120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.  Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20.  The typo seems obvious to me.  1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards.  420 BTC  / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

Why is this even posted in this thread?  Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

I suppose it needs it's own thread as I suggested since it is quite valuable information about the current market vs. the past market purchases. That should play into your decision when making any NEW PURCHASES like the BFL Monarch... ergo this is maybe a good place to point out the failures of BFL delivery. Would it not? To protect people possibly making the wrong choice when purchasing? Or should we all ignore this analysis?