[Apr 2024] Fees are HIGH, wait for opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs

[LoyceV]

I've updated the title

112!!!! sat/b in the last block, this is a new one.

I was wondering what happened to ordinals, is that possibly part of the cause?

yeah, 100% caused by them.

I didn't follow the ordinals ponzi hype, but are they really paying that much for their huge transactions? If it's 100kb at 100 sat/b, they're paying a thousands of dollars per transaction. Is that madness profitable enough for that kind of money?

[1714468159]

1714468159

[1714468159]

1714468159

[stompix]

I didn't follow the ordinals ponzi hype, but are they really paying that much for their huge transactions? If it's 100kb at 100 sat/b, they're paying a thousands of dollars per transaction. Is that madness profitable enough for that kind of money?

Eh, it's not really ordinals as the previous ones but brc-20 tokens, and everyone is still calling them ordinals so I did the same.
Those are really small in size, almost like any other transaction
https://blockstream.info/tx/bc7d958993ee372c307364db37cd01ba572c67c4db3182c7438c0c16128e5543

We even have services for minting your own tokens, pretty cheap at current rates
Total: ~39221 sats ~$11.23, for a batch of inscribing 10 000 sat at a 137sats/vB fee.

Last 24 hours:
92,159 minted
+14,405,820 JAKE, +18,708,000 fuck, +89,760 subC, +430,100,000,000 sats, +9,552 data, 36,112 other
https://brc-20.io/

Is starting to look like coinmarketcap with that many! Only 9054    right now!

[LoyceV]

brc-20 tokens
~
Last 24 hours:
92,159 minted
+14,405,820 JAKE, +18,708,000 fuck, +89,760 subC, +430,100,000,000 sats, +9,552 data, 36,112 other
https://brc-20.io/

Crazy! I have no other word for it.
I've been wondering for a while what would be next after altcoins, ICOs, Forkcoins, DeFi and NFTs. I guess the next pyramid scheme is making up BS on the Bitcoin blockchain. As usual, a few people will get very rich out of this, and many people will lose money. All I can do is warn against it.
Do people not understand they need some centralized service to "use" their made-up tokens, which goes against everything Bitcoin stands for? So, when they think they have this, in reality they have only Bitcoin dust!

Hey miners, I have an idea: to profit off this madness, how about you only include Taproot transactions if they pay 10 times more than other transactions? Make them pay for it!

[GR Sasa]

wtf... Block reward is 6.25BTC and i saw a block that almost got 2BTC just from fees...

Can anyone explain what's going on? Whats that high insanely demand on the Bitcoin Network??

Who is causing this? A lot of people are selling BTC??

This might be a cause for a crash

[LoyceV]

wtf... Block reward is 6.25BTC and i saw a block that almost got 2BTC just from fees...

I've seen fees around the same level as the total block reward when it was double that amount. It all depends on how many people are willing to pay.

Can anyone explain what's going on? Whats that high insanely demand on the Bitcoin Network??

Read the 2 posts above yours.

This might be a cause for a crash

Everything "might be a cause for a crash". This isn't the place for FUD.

[buwaytress]

Ok, yeah I just read about these BRC-20 thingies. A fungible token... who would have thought? haha. I'm even looking now at some of the prices for these ... text inscriptions... some are going for over 1 BTC, only buyable with taproot addresses. I was wondering when Electrum would support it but it's been a year and I've lost interest.

Who would have though this was going to be taproot's adoption, huh?

On another note, I failed to be patient yesterday and spent 151 sat/byte on my RBF... and that was even RBF'd up from 120 because it didn't confirm in 3 blocks.

Don't recall even spending more than 20 for years.

[serveria.com]

wtf... Block reward is 6.25BTC and i saw a block that almost got 2BTC just from fees...

Can anyone explain what's going on? Whats that high insanely demand on the Bitcoin Network??

Who is causing this? A lot of people are selling BTC??

This might be a cause for a crash

I wonder where have you spent the last several months? On another planet? Have you heard about ordinals? Google it. And stop spreading FUD, nobody is selling Bitcoin. It's amazing when people see something they can explain and panic starts immediately ("we're all gonna die" mode kicks in) without even doing research first... 

[LoyceV]

Ok, yeah I just read about these BRC-20 thingies. A fungible token... who would have thought?

The more I think about it, the less I get it. It just doesn't make sense! Those "tokens" have nothing to do with Bitcoin:

think they have this, in reality they have only Bitcoin dust!

And if it's meaningless to Bitcoin, why do this on an expensive blockchain? Couldn't they make up some shitcoin to use, like they've been doing in the past? It makes me think they're only using Bitcoin to profit off it's popularity. And the people who are throwing their money at it have no idea what they're buying.

[tranthidung]

And if it's meaningless to Bitcoin, why do this on an expensive blockchain?

Bitcoin blockchain is less expensive than Ethereum blockchain. It usually gives cheaper transaction fee than Ethereum blockchain. It is very far since a last time I saw people complained that they had to spend $50 or $100 in transaction fee for their Bitcoin transactions. However, it was repeatedly reported with transactions on Ethereum blockchain.

Comparison in their average transaction fees: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-eth.html#alltime

It makes me think they're only using Bitcoin to profit off it's popularity.

I agree with this point. Those shit BRC-20 meme coins try to exploit the popularity of Bitcoin.

And the people who are throwing their money at it have no idea what they're buying.

It is true too. They simply look for quick rich train and hope on BRC-20 meme train without knowing basics about Bitcoin and short lifespans of meme coins.

[hZti]

2 Bitcoins just as fees per block make me wonder who is stupid enough to pay this, at the other side it however makes me optimistic that there will be enough mining reward also in the future when the standard block rewards go down.

Generally I think to many exchanges simply rip off their customers by charging high withdrawal fees and the spam the network with high fee transactions. Maybe it would be wise if everyone will try to do transactions at the most economical rate, because I hope the network is growing and fees are already at a point where I feel they should not rise more.

[philipma1957]

You guys don't understand the problem is BTC has a fee structure that is ripe to exploit.



I wrote a thread on one way a major pool can do it years ago. You are watching it in action disguised as ordinals.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2634505.0


you are seeing a variation of my thread above.


If I am a major pool getting 30% of the blocks I can boost the fees and profit by it.

fees were about 0.15 btc a block

they are now 10x 1.50 a block.



foundry and ant pool can do it and make a profit .  

They pull 50% of the blocks.

so pay coins to jack fees and collect the higher fees.

if fees were .15
and fees are now 1.5

you went from .15 x 144 = 21.6 coins in fees
to 1.5 x 144 = 216 coins in fees

every day

of which they collect 50% of those extra fees forcing the other people to pay more.

best of all they do not need to spend  a lot to crowd out other transactions.

they cut a deal and allow a deal to someone to pay say 1 sat per byte  to fill blocks

they shut some of their  own miners down and boom 1-2 coin fees per blocks.

They actually turn a profit doing it.

Fee structure is still flawed and no good effort has happen to fix it yet.

And here is a clue banning ordinals and nfts will not fix the issue.

[LoyceV]

2 Bitcoins just as fees per block make me wonder who is stupid enough to pay this, at the other side it however makes me optimistic that there will be enough mining reward also in the future when the standard block rewards go down.

We've seen much worse, see loyce.club/other/fees_sorted.txt:

Code:

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504496,514145529
494672,514025624
500152,514024186
503140,514014606
502636,513934304
502764,513898961
504144,513886999
503929,513854128
502767,513688442
402518,513528411
475897,513510988
503047,513468131
504850,513404039
504700,513339692
503962,513258111
502947,513229979
498266,513213518
498972,513146127
502647,513120947
184323,513095000
494291,513077862
503765,513058561
503592,513051599
503857,513030978
503825,513020516
498243,513016094
502309,512995293
467937,512968602
469925,512945386
481918,512916349
504727,512728199
502589,512684149
503566,512595902
502861,512551761
502544,512529200
502892,512442953
494518,512408448
503105,512294819
502425,512242017
502662,512220195
503864,512212038
503494,512192952
482321,512103026
494456,512099447
502477,512099361
494899,512071878
469607,512055400
501327,512003547
501658,511969381
504926,511960753
503998,511914322
494611,511890437
502431,511865518
498427,511864716
498251,511795301
502626,511781321
502601,511709711
482294,511697098
504775,511688162
503565,511486704
502337,511401132
494599,511393426
504338,511365619
503225,511264802
503250,511235581
469594,511205161
469620,511197446
470100,511193387
482800,511094678
501550,511063091
503299,511044106
501426,511028851
500664,510998066
503371,510881176
468648,510845307
504813,510843944
482524,510555462
503823,510458994
502972,510427905
503077,510361664
502602,510276735
501202,510262475
503344,510239575
503192,510196752
236968,510088477
468942,510034988
502530,510028469
504740,510024444
470089,510020312
502499,510005370
504713,509982166
502079,509979520
502521,509869042
502963,509714951
502950,509678295
503980,509615667
504732,509569734
501347,509527826
482112,509439542
502778,509391678
494833,509351665
504728,509343264
502582,509273827
501224,509081869
494425,509041240
502566,509035300
494317,509018542
482095,508989584
482017,508954127
504601,508914649
502715,508855396
501043,508678107
502756,508617145
503582,508525472
470134,508504283
502911,508468322
482870,508466300
504878,508459856
502970,508448595
494727,508441252
501160,508440810
501704,508399423
502468,508388551
503730,508387496
503477,508379486
482098,508375683
503738,508358262
502365,508336506
502706,508224124
503617,508206864
504680,508091479
503950,508062458
502666,507961813
504102,507897202
502959,507882326
502938,507862490
494035,507826062
502906,507731221
503395,507653541
504520,507626826
499797,507622074
481985,507572076
502438,507492527
504725,507485190
470418,507477006
469720,507427878
482005,507423506
504337,507390789
482402,507208362
239898,507206000
494028,507161110
498252,507153213
482696,507147734
503399,507015763
470506,506981597
500973,506827044
500258,506816854
502709,506759872
502368,506576882
494462,506546134
481984,506540116
502681,506527514
503579,506504788
494197,506475807
494881,506448003
469892,506430564
469775,506224034
503312,506168033
502478,506131603
504096,506009586
502549,505942671
503015,505940375
468268,505916506
502161,505898042
503110,505777334
503149,505732277
503726,505666210
498213,505657835
503590,505491777
502540,505417659
503137,505409119
481620,505321252
498254,505194550
503949,505131990
503769,505080775
494230,505079046
471145,504972478
503177,504941524
469630,504904146
503824,504854918
481780,504818874
502965,504794657
503214,504776432
470043,504755640
502921,504723521
501833,504705313
504892,504702079
500127,504548971
494387,504482377
500848,504462972
500240,504408283
187257,504405000
502469,504384911
504991,504355695
503222,504350779
500134,504274110
501401,504267689
503771,504150903
504671,504059784
500143,504020281
481958,504012917
470292,504002049
470091,503905418
502452,503856120
322622,503829379
240432,503816043
481626,503806535
503284,503686154
481618,503629016
501148,503606969
502239,503587222
502967,503570222
502392,503515046
494156,503510316
470743,503430069
498203,503146029
504205,503094837
502664,503009597
503508,502868293
469608,502846774
503292,502808479
503571,502687781
495293,502646474
505022,502576431
500184,502474745
502323,502435747
481721,502435132
481899,502396536
502678,502230038
469769,502229856
469629,502191104
482865,502123433
482129,502109784
180695,502085498
503097,501998421
482501,501938559
494037,501867348
502908,501838709
475870,501776924
503356,501638713
503193,501625458
504646,501487238
481807,501464353
500160,501463390
500262,501372574
504197,501357782
499415,501005073
481825,501000297
502858,500959717
482509,500834837
502546,500830601

Some of those high fees are caused by mistakes (and some were actually paid back by the mining pool), some happened a long time ago at much lower Bitcoin prices, and some (especially around block 500000) happened at the end op 2017 when fees were the highest ever:
block 500521: 13.7 BTC in fees.

[LoyceV]

I haven't seen fees this high in a very long time! Usually fees are lowest on a Sunday, now they've been going up continuously for the past 2 weeks:


I checked the lastest block:

Those 546 sat dust transactions all go to the same address. People are paying several Bitcoin per block now to spam their pump and dump token. That means they pay millions of dollars per day in fees, just because of FOMO and greed for a token someone created out of thin air? Have they learned nothing in the past 6 years? It's the exact same thing over and over again, just with a different name.

[Cuenta Alternativa]

That means they pay millions of dollars per day in fees, just because of FOMO and greed for a token someone created out of thin air? Have they learned nothing in the past 6 years? It's the exact same thing over and over again, just with a different name.

So I understand this is a bubble that will end up like all bubbles: bursting. The bad thing is that until it bursts, which you never know when, you can no longer make small transactions, like $10 or $20, unless you want to pay $5 to transfer $10.

What happened 6 years ago? Remind me please.

[LoyceV]

So I understand this is a bubble that will end up like all bubbles: bursting. The bad thing is that until it bursts, which you never know when, you can no longer make small transactions, like $10 or $20, unless you want to pay $5 to transfer $10.

Correct. Either use LN (but funding a channel is expensive too) or some low-fee altcoin for small transactions.

What happened 6 years ago? Remind me please.

ICOs (Initial Coin Offering). Before that we had altcoins, after that came Forks, NFT, DeFi and other get-rich-quick-schemes. Most of them have disappeared by now.

[Cuenta Alternativa]

Correct. Either use LN (but funding a channel is expensive too) or some low-fee altcoin for small transactions.

Well, precisely thanks to you and others in a thread I opened (with my main account) about LN I learned that it is not necessary to open channels.

It's kinda like using an exchange for sending transactions: they take care of everything. Except for fees on LN are much lower, and in general people entrust LN-wallets with much lower amounts than exchanges.
That's why I don't really worry about using custodial LN wallets: it's supposed to be used for small amounts only, and it's much more convenient than opening my own channels.

ICOs (Initial Coin Offering). Before that we had altcoins, after that came Forks, NFT, DeFi and other get-rich-quick-schemes. Most of them have disappeared by now.

LMAO, yes, it was around that time that I registered on the forum.

[apogio]

Well, precisely thanks to you and others in a thread I opened (with my main account) about LN I learned that it is not necessary to open channels.

You mean not necessary to open channels on your own? This is true, but in general, channels are mandatory in LN as far as I know

[Pmalek]

Well, precisely thanks to you and others in a thread I opened (with my main account) about LN I learned that it is not necessary to open channels.

It's kinda like using an exchange for sending transactions: they take care of everything. Except for fees on LN are much lower, and in general people entrust LN-wallets with much lower amounts than exchanges.
That's why I don't really worry about using custodial LN wallets: it's supposed to be used for small amounts only, and it's much more convenient than opening my own channels.

LoyceV is talking about custodial services where it's possible to use the channels those wallets created, instead of creating and operating your own. I think he used Blue Wallet which had a custodial LN service in the past. But that's no longer the case, and if you want to continue using Blue Wallet, you'll have to run your own node now. The custodial service is or has already shut down.

Looking at the mempool as we speak. This is awful. 400.000 unconfirmed transactions, and you need to pay around 200 sat/vByte to get into the next block.   

[NotATether]

brc-20 tokens
~
Last 24 hours:
92,159 minted
+14,405,820 JAKE, +18,708,000 fuck, +89,760 subC, +430,100,000,000 sats, +9,552 data, 36,112 other
https://brc-20.io/

Crazy! I have no other word for it.
I've been wondering for a while what would be next after altcoins, ICOs, Forkcoins, DeFi and NFTs. I guess the next pyramid scheme is making up BS on the Bitcoin blockchain. As usual, a few people will get very rich out of this, and many people will lose money. All I can do is warn against it.
Do people not understand they need some centralized service to "use" their made-up tokens, which goes against everything Bitcoin stands for? So, when they think they have this, in reality they have only Bitcoin dust!

Hey miners, I have an idea: to profit off this madness, how about you only include Taproot transactions if they pay 10 times more than other transactions? Make them pay for it!

You already have an obscene amount of merit  but this is so freaking on the point that I decided to drop you +20.

An alternative would be to set up a mining pool that only mines Bitcoin transactions.

No Ordinals, no BRC-20, counterparty, RGB, nothing. No way to force the pool to accept these transactions as they should just be mined by some greedy pool instead.

Said pool will miss out tons on transaction fees will will be able to take pride in knowing that they are not screwing over the entire network that their business has been set up to serve.

[Volgastallion]

The community and the developers of Bitcoin needs to move fast agains this shit.

We cant give them this freedom to do this so easily.


Maybe we can put a more higher fee if weight more than XXXX but i dont really know how to implement this.

I also think they are exploting the "non censoring" politics of the BTC. they use this in their favour.

So they are giving a bad use not only at the BTC blockchain itself, but also they are making a really shit in community.

Its like BTC blockchain/community give you a opportunity to make something good and you use that to make the worst.