[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

[klee]

Maybe I missed it, but how do I invest in the xbonds?

I think first thing is to buy them from Havelock - though the rest I am not sure...

[1714894958]

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[btceic]

Maybe I missed it, but how do I invest in the xbonds?

I think first thing is to buy them from Havelock - though the rest I am not sure...

Thanks Klee!

[klee]

So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?

This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!

Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).

[ThickAsThieves]

So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?

This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!

Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).

In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.

For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.

This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.

Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids.

NOTE: We will only consider bids at/above the list price when evaluating total bids on each exchange.  i.e. You couldn't, for example, sling up a huge bid at below official price to ensure maximum allocation to the exchange of your preference to ensure your "real" orders got filled).

[Hardman]

A very interesting IPVO - I'm looking forward to it. Good luck.

Hardman

[Rannasha]

So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?

This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!

Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).

In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.

For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.

This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.

Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids.

I don't have much experience with Bitfunder and Havelock, but can I assume that your post implies that it will be possible to place bids prior to the IPVO on all 3 exchanges? Bids that are then filled up by the big IPVO-sell-order. klee mentioned that Havelock IP(V)Os typically don't have pre-bidding, which would make it impossible to determine a proper share-division-ratio for the three exchanges.

[ThickAsThieves]

So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?

This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!

Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).

In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.

For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.

This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.

Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids.

I don't have much experience with Bitfunder and Havelock, but can I assume that your post implies that it will be possible to place bids prior to the IPVO on all 3 exchanges? Bids that are then filled up by the big IPVO-sell-order. klee mentioned that Havelock IP(V)Os typically don't have pre-bidding, which would make it impossible to determine a proper share-division-ratio for the three exchanges.

This is the intention, yes. I know it is possible with Havelock and I am working on it with them already. I am still waiting to hear back from Ukyo about allowing it on BitFunder, but I'm certain it's possible there. Just a matter of time most likely.

[richard_dein]

Just an opinion.

Bank of Cyprus had a market cap of only two magnitudes above the IPVO price, while having a large market share and dipping into a much larger range of businesses.

The opportunity is the mistrust of the Cypriots against their current banking system, but Bitcoin would sound equally shady to a lot of them. Mass adoption of Bitcoin could also expose Cyprus to external manipulation, so there is a risk that the grand plan would backfire. Moreover, remember Cyprus is a small country with ~1 million people, who are current having trouble spending money - expect much less consumer activity than your "usual" developed country, and note that a large part of this business revolve around consumer services.

Neo & Bee will at best grow just like an average start-up of its kind, probably even slower in its valuation in terms of Bitcoins. Nonetheless this can be seen as a worthwhile venture. If you believe in this startup, you should look away from the Bitcoin share price and focus on how it strengthens the Bitcoin economy. Basically, see it as a donation to help the rest of your Bitcoins rise. Good luck.

[klee]

So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?

This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!

Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).

In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.

For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.

This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.

Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids.

So does that mean that if for example all shares are pre-bided in an exchange, then a higher bid (eg 0.0030001) would by pass the FIFO?

[ThickAsThieves]

So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?

This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!

Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).

In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.

For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.

This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.

Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids.

So does that mean that if for example all shares are pre-bided in an exchange, then a higher bid (eg 0.0030001) would by pass the FIFO?

Correct, this is essentially how all the orderbooks work by default.

[bjack0815]

How can I keep the overview of the total number of shares bought when you can buy shares on the three exchanges?
So it might be challenging to know when the total amount of shares of the IPVO is reached?

Will there be a frequent overview here to see the total amount of shares sold?

[ThickAsThieves]

How can I keep the overview of the total number of shares bought when you can buy shares on the three exchanges?
So it might be challenging to know when the total amount of shares of the IPVO is reached?

Assuming you need to do this at all, you'd need to have each page open on each exchange in your browser. Havelock & BitFunder have mostly live books, and BTCT requires refreshing.

Generally you'll know when it is sold out because there will be no more Ask walls at .003.

[klee]

How can I keep the overview of the total number of shares bought when you can buy shares on the three exchanges?
So it might be challenging to know when the total amount of shares of the IPVO is reached?

3 tabs opened and F5 periodically  

[bjack0815]

How can I keep the overview of the total number of shares bought when you can buy shares on the three exchanges?
So it might be challenging to know when the total amount of shares of the IPVO is reached?

3 tabs opened and F5 periodically  

I already lost so many F5 keys because of Laboin 

[cryptocyprus]

Just an opinion.

Bank of Cyprus had a market cap of only two magnitudes above the IPVO price, while having a large market share and dipping into a much larger range of businesses.

The opportunity is the mistrust of the Cypriots against their current banking system, but Bitcoin would sound equally shady to a lot of them. Mass adoption of Bitcoin could also expose Cyprus to external manipulation, so there is a risk that the grand plan would backfire. Moreover, remember Cyprus is a small country with ~1 million people, who are current having trouble spending money - expect much less consumer activity than your "usual" developed country, and note that a large part of this business revolve around consumer services.

Neo & Bee will at best grow just like an average start-up of its kind, probably even slower in its valuation in terms of Bitcoins. Nonetheless this can be seen as a worthwhile venture. If you believe in this startup, you should look away from the Bitcoin share price and focus on how it strengthens the Bitcoin economy. Basically, see it as a donation to help the rest of your Bitcoins rise. Good luck.

Thank you for the insightful post, The Bank of Cyprus market cap took some serious damage when they and the bank that was force-ably merged with them, had to levy 47.5% of deposits from the Bank of Cyprus customers that held more than €100k with them and Laiki customers lost everything over €100k, it is not the inability to spend money that is an ongoing issue, it is the broken trust that is of the biggest concern for Cypriot people. We are going to be addressing that broken trust, by telling people to let us gain their trust, we also have respected people in the Media willing to explain the technical aspects of Bitcoin and why we can deliver what we promise to do (Unable to take customers money without their consent) to their readers. Many people have vast sums of money hidden under the mattress because of this broken trust.

We will also be adding more revenue streams in the near future, to ensure that we can grow at a sustainable rate.

[jedunnigan]

Initially the possibility of people withdrawing Bitcoin to the wild is slim because that would entail them understanding how to use Bitcoin in its raw format, we expect that until we open up the possibility for opening accounts from within the wider European Union direct Bitcoin withdrawals will be almost non existent.

The capital controls are under review in the September meeting of the Troika however this is of no concern because we are signing off on a partnership shortly that will enable the physical notes to remain in Cyprus whilst providing us with those funds electronically outside of the traditional Cypriot banking infrastructure.  This ensures that we have zero exposure with our "competitors", ensuring they cannot try and complicate matters with frozen accounts, temporary holds etc.

Ah, so there will probably be a ruling long before your opening. That's good.

We have spent the last 12 months making the necessary contacts with both regulators, government officials and key influential groups such as those now challenging the EU over the bail-ins. The initial lobbying efforts have been very promising, the president himself has spoken about the need for a "Plan B". One of the joys of Cyprus being small is the 2 degrees of separation, in larger countries this would have been a much drawn out process after speaking with personal assistants for months just to ensure a letter is passed onto the relevant person. Here we don't have that problem.

Good to hear you have contacts. Do you have assurances one way or the other? Or are these verbal understandings, where you have consent to operate but not a guarantee of future shutdown (assuming you follow all regulations)?

[cryptocyprus]

Initially the possibility of people withdrawing Bitcoin to the wild is slim because that would entail them understanding how to use Bitcoin in its raw format, we expect that until we open up the possibility for opening accounts from within the wider European Union direct Bitcoin withdrawals will be almost non existent.

The capital controls are under review in the September meeting of the Troika however this is of no concern because we are signing off on a partnership shortly that will enable the physical notes to remain in Cyprus whilst providing us with those funds electronically outside of the traditional Cypriot banking infrastructure.  This ensures that we have zero exposure with our "competitors", ensuring they cannot try and complicate matters with frozen accounts, temporary holds etc.

Ah, so there will probably be a ruling long before your opening. That's good.

We have spent the last 12 months making the necessary contacts with both regulators, government officials and key influential groups such as those now challenging the EU over the bail-ins. The initial lobbying efforts have been very promising, the president himself has spoken about the need for a "Plan B". One of the joys of Cyprus being small is the 2 degrees of separation, in larger countries this would have been a much drawn out process after speaking with personal assistants for months just to ensure a letter is passed onto the relevant person. Here we don't have that problem.

Good to hear you have contacts. Do you have assurances one way or the other? Or are these verbal understandings, where you have consent to operate but not a guarantee of future shutdown (assuming you follow all regulations)?

We have our Lawyers preparing the requests to have regulations placed upon us (specifically to create fitting regulations for a Bitcoin based business), we know that we can operate unregulated but it is not something we want to do. If we are regulated, it will give us a better reputation from the outset.

[btcash]

Can you post any real pictures of your branch and of the Bee debit card? And post the address of your main branch.
I agree with neotrix. Some virtual pictures, a general description of your business without important details and some alleged contracts with several firms is not enough for a multi-million dollar IPO.

I hope the prospectus update can clear the main concerns.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3115282#msg3115282

[cryptocyprus]

Can you post any real pictures of your branch and of the Bee debit card? And post the address of your main branch.
I agree with neotrix. Some virtual pictures, a general description of your business without important details and some alleged contracts with several firms is not enough for a multi-million dollar IPO.

I hope the prospectus update can clear the main concerns.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3115282#msg3115282

Sure, the building has been constructed, the interior renovations start at the end of November the interior designers are providing their 3D walkthroughs 15 days from Thursday for the flagship branch, the offices we take delivery on the 23rd September. The address of both the head offices and the flagship branch is, 7 Stars Tower, Engomi, Nicosia. You can't miss the building!

The Interior



The first floor is our offices (We take delivery on the 23rd September)



The renovations taking place in the offices (This photo was taken several days ago, since the raised floor has been completed throughout all of the offices)



Another picture of the building (You can clearly see the glass wall surrounding the veranda on the first floor, this will be branded as per the image in the prospectus, the full length and width of the building will become signage for us.)



The updated prospectus will include additional scenarios based upon the worst possible cases. We will also make it clearer as to how we operate because some misunderstandings have been made, increasing the concern from some people.

[N_S]

Some virtual pictures, a general description of your business without important details and some alleged contracts with several firms is not enough for a multi-million dollar IPO.

I can't quite say this is an accurate description of what we have here, but I like that people are remaining skeptical.

It's also fun knowing you'll get answers

EDIT: A new standard has been set for picture quality relating to anything around here.