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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 21, 2013, 08:03:44 PM |
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Your business plan is interesting but:
What incentive will a Cypriot have to deposit money with you when he can just deposit Euros into a real bank where deposits are insured up to 100,000 euros by the state? If he/she owns more than 100,000 euros, can just open multiple 100,000 accounts at several banks to benefit from the insurance.
Keep in mind that no Cypriot holding less than 100,000 euros lost any money so far in those bail-ins. Only those who held more than 100,000 lost money.
It would be more interesting to try and get customers for non-pegged deposits. Those might prove more attractive. Have your bitcoins linked directly to a debit/credit card for daily purchases. I can see the attraction of that but can't see the attraction of your pegged model. Sure, I can see some very wealthy people scared of bail-ins going down this path, but don't see many casual retail customers doing it. Those who know and like Bitcoin will just pick the Bitcoin deposit, not the peg and those who don't know about Bitcoin will just use a regular bank with deposit insurance on <100k euro accounts.
The first proposal was to take a percentage of peoples money whom had €1000+ in their account. It very nearly happened |
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Bitcoin addresses contain a checksum, so it is very unlikely that mistyping an address will cause you to lose money.
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JimiQ84
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September 21, 2013, 08:26:36 PM |
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Your business plan is interesting but:
What incentive will a Cypriot have to deposit money with you when he can just deposit Euros into a real bank where deposits are insured up to 100,000 euros by the state? If he/she owns more than 100,000 euros, can just open multiple 100,000 accounts at several banks to benefit from the insurance.
Keep in mind that no Cypriot holding less than 100,000 euros lost any money so far in those bail-ins. Only those who held more than 100,000 lost money.
It would be more interesting to try and get customers for non-pegged deposits. Those might prove more attractive. Have your bitcoins linked directly to a debit/credit card for daily purchases. I can see the attraction of that but can't see the attraction of your pegged model. Sure, I can see some very wealthy people scared of bail-ins going down this path, but don't see many casual retail customers doing it. Those who know and like Bitcoin will just pick the Bitcoin deposit, not the peg and those who don't know about Bitcoin will just use a regular bank with deposit insurance on <100k euro accounts.
Another reason is the limit of 5000 euros/month for international money transfer (bitcoin doesn't have the limit) |
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Herp
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September 21, 2013, 08:28:13 PM |
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Your business plan is interesting but:
What incentive will a Cypriot have to deposit money with you when he can just deposit Euros into a real bank where deposits are insured up to 100,000 euros by the state? If he/she owns more than 100,000 euros, can just open multiple 100,000 accounts at several banks to benefit from the insurance.
Keep in mind that no Cypriot holding less than 100,000 euros lost any money so far in those bail-ins. Only those who held more than 100,000 lost money.
It would be more interesting to try and get customers for non-pegged deposits. Those might prove more attractive. Have your bitcoins linked directly to a debit/credit card for daily purchases. I can see the attraction of that but can't see the attraction of your pegged model. Sure, I can see some very wealthy people scared of bail-ins going down this path, but don't see many casual retail customers doing it. Those who know and like Bitcoin will just pick the Bitcoin deposit, not the peg and those who don't know about Bitcoin will just use a regular bank with deposit insurance on <100k euro accounts.
The first proposal was to take a percentage of peoples money whom had €1000+ in their account. It very nearly happened First proposal didn't fly and couldn't fly because majority rules. Future bail-ins will apply to accounts above 100,000 Euro across the EU. It was confirmed repeatedly by EU officials that all accounts below 100,000 euros won't be touched by any future bail-ins. I see, however, potential of money being stolen by ECB money printing of Euros as most people are too stupid to realize such move would basically equal a bail-in. Your peg doesn't help with that though. |
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Herp
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September 21, 2013, 08:31:40 PM |
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Your business plan is interesting but:
What incentive will a Cypriot have to deposit money with you when he can just deposit Euros into a real bank where deposits are insured up to 100,000 euros by the state? If he/she owns more than 100,000 euros, can just open multiple 100,000 accounts at several banks to benefit from the insurance.
Keep in mind that no Cypriot holding less than 100,000 euros lost any money so far in those bail-ins. Only those who held more than 100,000 lost money.
It would be more interesting to try and get customers for non-pegged deposits. Those might prove more attractive. Have your bitcoins linked directly to a debit/credit card for daily purchases. I can see the attraction of that but can't see the attraction of your pegged model. Sure, I can see some very wealthy people scared of bail-ins going down this path, but don't see many casual retail customers doing it. Those who know and like Bitcoin will just pick the Bitcoin deposit, not the peg and those who don't know about Bitcoin will just use a regular bank with deposit insurance on <100k euro accounts.
Another reason is the limit of 5000 euros/month for international money transfer (bitcoin doesn't have the limit) Well that's interesting but I assume they will have to comply with the currency controls in place or will be forced to do so, especially as rival banks will see them having an unfair advantage in this area. |
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JimiQ84
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September 21, 2013, 08:33:17 PM |
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Well that's interesting but I assume they will have to comply with the currency controls in place or will be forced to do so, especially as rival banks will see them having an unfair advantage in this area.
I'd say this advantage is very fair :-) nothing is stopping rival banks from using bitcoin as means of international money transfer |
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Herp
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September 21, 2013, 08:38:12 PM |
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Well that's interesting but I assume they will have to comply with the currency controls in place or will be forced to do so, especially as rival banks will see them having an unfair advantage in this area.
I'd say this advantage is very fair :-) nothing is stopping rival banks from using bitcoin as means of international money transfer Not when it circumvents the currency controls the country put into place. This creates a conflict of interest with the very country they're trying to get approval from. Doesn't take a genius to figure out it won't be allowed. Also, don't underestimate the power of the banking lobby. |
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kcirazy
Newbie
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Activity: 53
Merit: 0
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September 21, 2013, 08:41:10 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2013, 09:35:56 PM by kcirazy |
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No we don't hold the only private key, this is detailed throughout the thread and in the prospectus.
I'm sorry. I made that assumption because it was mentioned that bitcoin balance was corrected as if pegged to the euro. But then how would you make those corrections to the balance? |
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237
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September 21, 2013, 10:49:15 PM |
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No we don't hold the only private key, this is detailed throughout the thread and in the prospectus.
I'm sorry. I made that assumption because it was mentioned that bitcoin balance was corrected as if pegged to the euro. But then how would you make those corrections to the balance? Please read the prospectus and the whole thread before asking qustions. It's starting to repeat itself, and most questions asked here are already answered in the prospectus. |
Donatioins always welcome  LTC: LL2UDTbQNx9UiP37ZzJ4CLQDWm6JPgZG8t |
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Vbs
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September 21, 2013, 11:14:22 PM
Last edit: September 22, 2013, 01:50:20 AM by Vbs |
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I'd have to say the prospectus looks very thorough and solid, with detailed milestones and expected expenditures. The initial and immediate effort in marketing/PR is laudable, I think it will be key for your long-term success and immediate capture of public attention. Get that snowball going downhill asap!  Did a little digging about the software house you're using, they seem an excellent choice: http://www.pvs.com.cy/index.php/company-profile-software-development-cyprus/ |
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shaft
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
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September 22, 2013, 01:38:59 AM |
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To open a wallet with Neo initially you will need to be a Cypriot resident, we will be opening this up to EU customers once we have ensured no backlogs are created upon start up.
Bee on the other hand will be open to everyone on the island including tourists, you will be able to purchase pre-paid Bee cards (top up with BTC) and or use your smartphone wallet through the POS terminals. The prepaid cards would reduce data roaming fees for existing Bitcoiners who are on their travels in Cyprus.
as a tourist this is fantastic! |
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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 05:04:39 AM |
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By the time we get to market the capital controls will no longer be enforced, the regulators are being made aware that they cannot regulate the protocol too.
Yes the power of the banking lobby, don't under estimate the power of the people that put the government into power either, they for some reason currently have a very sour taste in their mouth with regards to the traditional banks. All the politicians are now very concerned about gaining the support of the public following the fiasco.
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kingcrimson
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1000
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September 22, 2013, 05:13:43 AM |
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What % of shares are gone? Are you happy with the sales so far, is it slow or on target?
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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 05:20:58 AM |
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What % of shares are gone? Are you happy with the sales so far, is it slow or on target?
I am happy with the progress so far, never expected it to sell out within 24 hours, it is an extremely large amount of BTC. There will be lots more announcements happening almost every day from now until launch. Just having my first coffee of the day, when I have finished I shall check the percentages. |
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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 06:20:11 AM |
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What % of shares are gone? Are you happy with the sales so far, is it slow or on target?
Roughly 38% of the 9,600,000 shares have already been sold. |
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Herp
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September 22, 2013, 06:47:40 AM
Last edit: September 22, 2013, 07:13:59 AM by Herp |
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By the time we get to market the capital controls will no longer be enforced, the regulators are being made aware that they cannot regulate the protocol too.
Yes the power of the banking lobby, don't under estimate the power of the people that put the government into power either, they for some reason currently have a very sour taste in their mouth with regards to the traditional banks. All the politicians are now very concerned about gaining the support of the public following the fiasco.
Yeah, you may be right about politicians seeking public support to get re-elected. Quite a few people lost their jobs in banking sector there and probably hold a grudge against banks or something. I think your business may succeed with good marketing because most of the people are not rational. In a free market scenario those people holding 100,000 euros or less would have lost 100% of their money due to bank failure, without private insurance. Also, as you won't be operating as a bank, in case you fail people will also lose 100% of their money unless you also sell them some private insurance which won't be cheap. So basically, why choose you when they can get insurance for free from state?! Yes, some depositors over 100,000 lost some of their money because state couldn't provide full insurance due to being insolvent, however, in your case people would have lost everything. To a rational person this is very easy choice: deposit money with you with the risk of losing it all or go with the state insurance of bank accounts that so far worked pretty well. But, as I was saying, most people are not rational so your business might work with some emotional touching marketing. |
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ninjaboon
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1002
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September 22, 2013, 06:55:15 AM |
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What % of shares are gone? Are you happy with the sales so far, is it slow or on target?
I am happy with the progress so far, never expected it to sell out within 24 hours, it is an extremely large amount of BTC. There will be lots more announcements happening almost every day from now until launch. Just having my first coffee of the day, when I have finished I shall check the percentages. Heard your interview on http://letstalkbitcoin.com/speculative/#.Uj0RYT__Giwand then invested some BTC via Bitfunder.com All the best rolling out your services in Cyprus. |
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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 07:18:06 AM |
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By the time we get to market the capital controls will no longer be enforced, the regulators are being made aware that they cannot regulate the protocol too.
Yes the power of the banking lobby, don't under estimate the power of the people that put the government into power either, they for some reason currently have a very sour taste in their mouth with regards to the traditional banks. All the politicians are now very concerned about gaining the support of the public following the fiasco.
Yeah, you may be right about politicians seeking public support to get re-elected. Quite a few people lost their jobs in banking sector there and probably hold a grudge against banks or something. I think your business may succeed with good marketing because most of the people are not rational. In a free market scenario those people holding 100,000 euros or less would have lost 100% of their money due to bank failure, without private insurance. Also, as you won't be operating as a bank, in case you fail people will also lose 100% of their money unless you also sell them some private insurance which won't be cheap. So basically, why choose you when they can get insurance for free from state?! Yes, some depositors over 100,000 lost some of their money because state couldn't provide full insurance due to being insolvent, however, in your case people would have lost everything. To a rational person this is very easy choice: deposit money with you with the risk of losing it all or go with the state insurance of bank accounts that so far worked pretty well. But, as I was saying, most people are not rational so your business might work with some emotional touching marketing. This scenario has already been answered several times, and your vision of what we are offering is incorrect. Those in Laiki who had 100k lost 100% of everything above 100k, those in the Bank of Cyprus lost 47.5% of everything over 100k. Do you think the Central Banks can actually cover every insured deposit? |
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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 07:18:58 AM |
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What % of shares are gone? Are you happy with the sales so far, is it slow or on target?
I am happy with the progress so far, never expected it to sell out within 24 hours, it is an extremely large amount of BTC. There will be lots more announcements happening almost every day from now until launch. Just having my first coffee of the day, when I have finished I shall check the percentages. Heard your interview on http://letstalkbitcoin.com/speculative/#.Uj0RYT__Giwand then invested some BTC via Bitfunder.com All the best rolling out your services in Cyprus. Thanks, if you have any questions, I will answer them  |
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Herp
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September 22, 2013, 08:03:15 AM |
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By the time we get to market the capital controls will no longer be enforced, the regulators are being made aware that they cannot regulate the protocol too.
Yes the power of the banking lobby, don't under estimate the power of the people that put the government into power either, they for some reason currently have a very sour taste in their mouth with regards to the traditional banks. All the politicians are now very concerned about gaining the support of the public following the fiasco.
Yeah, you may be right about politicians seeking public support to get re-elected. Quite a few people lost their jobs in banking sector there and probably hold a grudge against banks or something. I think your business may succeed with good marketing because most of the people are not rational. In a free market scenario those people holding 100,000 euros or less would have lost 100% of their money due to bank failure, without private insurance. Also, as you won't be operating as a bank, in case you fail people will also lose 100% of their money unless you also sell them some private insurance which won't be cheap. So basically, why choose you when they can get insurance for free from state?! Yes, some depositors over 100,000 lost some of their money because state couldn't provide full insurance due to being insolvent, however, in your case people would have lost everything. To a rational person this is very easy choice: deposit money with you with the risk of losing it all or go with the state insurance of bank accounts that so far worked pretty well. But, as I was saying, most people are not rational so your business might work with some emotional touching marketing. This scenario has already been answered several times, and your vision of what we are offering is incorrect. Those in Laiki who had 100k lost 100% of everything above 100k, those in the Bank of Cyprus lost 47.5% of everything over 100k. Do you think the Central Banks can actually cover every insured deposit? Bottom line here is that Laiki depositors with savings below 100,000 didn't lose one dime. Probably 98 or 99% of mid-low income Cypriots fall in this category. I know what you're offering. You are basically offering Euro pegged deposits held in Bitcoin not backed by government or by a private insurance company(unless probably customer buys that as extra product). This will be your main source of revenue according to your statements. Had depositors made one 100,000 euro Laiki deposit and another 100,000 euro Bank of Cyprus deposit, they would have had a combined 200,000 euro in deposits safely insured for free by government. By using same method with other banks, many could have achieved even higher insured deposits. Everyone knew deposits above 100,000 weren't insured and yet in some cases like Bank of Crypus they actually were to some degree. The 62.5% of deposited amount was actually a gift to Bank of Cyprus depositors. As I was saying, though, your business may be a success because most people are highly emotional. I'm even considering buying some of your shares. I hope, though, you'll try to get more revenue from actual Bitcoin deposits linked to debit/credit cards and not from pegged accounts. Getting greedy on the pegged side of the business might backfire. |
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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 22, 2013, 08:20:27 AM |
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No, but they were 2 hours away from it becoming a reality, irregardless of the "insurance", the church had also offered up their assets to stop the €1k+ deposits being haircut. Please remember that what is reported in the global media and what is actually happening/happened locally is generally vastly different.
They still have to complete the restructuring of the credit-unions, which is going to cause another mess.
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