|
devans (OP)
|
 |
February 12, 2021, 08:54:23 AM |
|
Ultimately just experience and a little trial and error. Unlike the commission rate formula, which actually targets a specific size based on assumptions about the wager volume and returns that investors demand, there's probably no "correct" size for the dilution fee. 2% is high enough to discourage investing/divesting in response to high rollers playing but low enough to not be too big of a barrier for new investors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
SquallLeonhart
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1101
|
|
February 12, 2021, 03:08:45 PM |
|
I do not know if 2% is the right or wrong since I am not expert enough to say it, but we are in a situation where we have 150+ million dollars last I checked, which shows that its not only a good amount but its actually tiny, people are making so much money even with this version that they invested like crazy and instead of making the optimum amount of profit people decided it would be fine making MUCH less money and kept on investing and keeping their money there.
So, 2% rate is not bad at all, it could be 5%+ at this point and I would be fine with the decision, not for my own investment but I would rather see the weak hands get out so that we could start making more profit, devans said 50 million was enough to cover almost all bets ever, so if we had 5% even 10% that would make some people scared and go, and putting new money in would be difficult so we could actually drop to a reasonable level.
|
|
|
|
|
jaberwock
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1073
|
|
February 13, 2021, 03:21:07 PM |
|
Ultimately just experience and a little trial and error. Unlike the commission rate formula, which actually targets a specific size based on assumptions about the wager volume and returns that investors demand, there's probably no "correct" size for the dilution fee. 2% is high enough to discourage investing/divesting in response to high rollers playing but low enough to not be too big of a barrier for new investors.
I do agree that 2% is looking like the perfect spot right now, I haven't seen anything out of 1-5% range ever anyway, no place does more than 5% that gets famous (would be way too high to get interest from people) and no place could survive with under 1% neither, so it was always bound to be between 1-5% levels for sure. A great thing about this in between situation is that as long as people do not really end up with extreme responses to these changes, it should actually end up doing what you wanted. Sometimes it is not about what you do as the owner, it is a bit about how people respond, and if people respond the way they should, you will get success, but sometimes people overreact to some changes and that results with bad things, but here in bustabit people will probably not overreact so it will probably be the perfect situation, I do not remember this place ever being that chaotic ever. |
|
|
|
|
devans (OP)
|
|
February 13, 2021, 04:09:11 PM |
|
To avoid any confusion: 2% is the dilution fee that is only charged once on every investment. The dilution fee has been 2% for a very long time and is not being changed. What is being changed is how the commission–which investors are charged every time the bankroll earns a net profit–is calculated. You can read about it in detail here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2897545.msg56252341#msg56252341 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
RHavar
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2557
Merit: 1886
|
|
February 14, 2021, 03:52:48 PM |
|
Oh wow, thanks for that. That's actually really helpful. Also if anyone needs an easy way to format it, you can copy&paste it into google spreadsheets or even gist.github.com: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/b915276d257175172369e3c8648f051bwhich makes it a bit easier to read  |
Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of. |
|
|
BayAreaCoins
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1242
Owner at AltQuick.com & FreeBitcoins.com
|
|
February 17, 2021, 09:29:33 PM
Last edit: February 18, 2021, 11:38:15 PM by BayAreaCoins |
|
then the commission rate would be about 238% (capped at 100%) as the bankroll is way over the target size at the moment.
Making things so complicated that it basically fucks investors is way worse than just forcing people to devest and withdraw or preventing investment in the first place. "Starting on March 2, 2021 the commission rate is calculated by converting the bankroll to special drawing rights (XDR), then dividing the result by 55,000,000 XDR. The reference exchange rates for Bitcoin and special drawing rights will be fetched once every 24 hours and the data made available publicly."I don't even remotely understand this Special Drawing nonsense and the best I can tell it has nothing to do with your projects except to make them so complicated that people don't understand they are being taken advantage of.   So I google Bretton Wood System and turns out it collapsed just 2 years after this "Special Drawing" stuff.
Right now a new investor would pay a 2% dilution fee + 100% commission? I think it's irresponsible to allow that to happen by design... My understanding is there isn't commission on the dilution fee... so, new investors could only earn back their dilution fee by earning from more dilution fees generated from more new investors. It's a dangerous trend. (sorry if this sentence is hard to read) I am confident that we'll see significant divestments after the new commission rate comes into effect fairly quickly, if not right before.
I'm confident that people aren't going to understand, continue to invest and you're going to profit from it. If you want people to divest or not invested more... divest them and/or prevent investments. Don't rob them until they say "fuck this" and bail. That's a dangerous long-term business plan. If you have 5000 BTC, but you only want 2500... Chop everyone invested by 50%, add it to their available balance for withdraw or play (play hopefully), then prevent investments if the BR is >2500 with nice clear understandable static fee that doesn't make your website related to fiat. Dooglus, for example, was one of MoneyPots (Bustabit) first investors... he was divested by the website when his Bitcoins were no longer needed The only reason to make this more complicated than it needs to be is if you want to absolutely milk the people who have trusted you and those previous to you. This stuff isn't rocket appliances. |
|
|
|
RHavar
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2557
Merit: 1886
|
|
February 17, 2021, 11:41:46 PM |
|
I don't even remotely understand this Special Drawing nonsense and the best I can tell it has nothing to do with your projects except to make them so complicated that
The idea of the "special drawing rights" is that it's like a stable version of "fiat money". Right now 1 XDR is (0.58252 USD + 0.38671 EUR + 1.0174 CNY + 11.9 JPY + 0.085946 GBP). Picking a single currency would be simpler, but less stable. I'm confident that people aren't going to understand, continue to invest and you're going to profit from it.
I don't think it is Daniel intention is to obsfucate how it works, like on the "bankroll" page (which you use to invest/divest), it pretty prominently shows:  and he has made a lot of stats available as an .csv which makes it pretty simple for anyone who can use excel to work with |
Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of. |
|
|
BayAreaCoins
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1242
Owner at AltQuick.com & FreeBitcoins.com
|
|
February 17, 2021, 11:46:27 PM
Last edit: February 18, 2021, 12:56:48 AM by BayAreaCoins |
|
I don't think it is Daniel intention is to obsfucate how it works
obfuscate The irony... obfuscate means "render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible".  I think keeping things as simple as possible is a good route or you stand a chance at making things "obsfucated"!  |
|
|
|
RHavar
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2557
Merit: 1886
|
|
February 17, 2021, 11:57:22 PM |
|
obfuscate The irony... obfuscate means "render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible". I think keeping things as simple as possible is a good route or you stand a chance at making things "obsfucated"! I'd like to claim it was some higher-order humor to obfuscate the word obfuscate, but the truth is I never learned the English very well and my browsers spell checker is set to another language. Anyway, thank you for the correction -- I hope I won't make the same spelling mistake again. |
Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of. |
|
|
tygeade
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1058
|
|
February 18, 2021, 08:24:06 PM |
|
I understand that these changes may not be liked by people and that is understandable if you have a good amount of investment here, however I haven't really seen an alternative that was better than the current system we are changing into. If you really do not like the system that bustabit is moving towards, why not provide something much better both for the system, for investors and for bustabit team as well, shouldn't that be the case here if you do not like the setup?
If you can offer something better then you could argue that it should be like that, but so far there is only complaints and things that would hurt the team, that's about it, and devans is a nice person so he is not really saying how it would hurt him neither so it is just staying there like a legit idea. All in all, this is the best method anyone can think of, there hasn't been a better idea, that is why I am 100% in support of it.
|
|
|
|
micky123
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1005
|
|
February 19, 2021, 08:51:52 AM |
|
I haven't really seen significant disinvestment, im useless at math, could someone please let me know how much needs to be disinvested for the commission to go down to an acceptable level? It was a nice touch to add the potential change information to the investment page, i guess many investors have just not seen this announcement as yet.
|
|
|
|
|
devans (OP)
|
|
February 19, 2021, 02:06:09 PM |
|
I wouldn't expect any significant divestment until the changes come into effect or right until before then. Currently we'd need to see a divestment of about 1,400 BTC after the change to bring the commission rate back down to 50%. More will be required eventually if Bitcoin's price remains at this level or continues to increase, but since the calculation uses a 360-day moving average that will happen gradually.
|
|
|
|
|
|
justdimin
|
|
February 19, 2021, 03:34:28 PM |
|
The funny thing is, even with all these complaints about the changes to discourage overinvestment to a point where we shouldn't invest way way more than needed for the bankroll.... there is still overinvestment. I mean nothing took into affect yet and people are still holding their money like crazy. There is really no reason why we should be keeping the old system and not move to new system and even literally cut ALL profits from investors for a while just so they could leave, we need them leaving, and they are still not doing it.
So, if you think this is excessive and it should not be this punishing to have too much bankroll, think again because even with this excessive looking method, we are still nowhere near the levels we should be, hence I am in 100% support of cutting every single profit until some of them leave.
|
|
|
|
sana54210
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3192
Merit: 1128
|
|
February 20, 2021, 08:08:00 PM |
|
The funny thing is, even with all these complaints about the changes to discourage overinvestment to a point where we shouldn't invest way way more than needed for the bankroll.... there is still overinvestment. I mean nothing took into affect yet and people are still holding their money like crazy. There is really no reason why we should be keeping the old system and not move to new system and even literally cut ALL profits from investors for a while just so they could leave, we need them leaving, and they are still not doing it.
So, if you think this is excessive and it should not be this punishing to have too much bankroll, think again because even with this excessive looking method, we are still nowhere near the levels we should be, hence I am in 100% support of cutting every single profit until some of them leave.
I think it will happen over time and not right now, and when it happens I am sure there will be some divestment gradually and not all at once as well. Like devans said I think it is going to take a while, and he talked about 1400 bitcoin as the point where it drops, and I believe that is not going to be something simple, 1400 bitcoins is about 80 million dollars or so, that is really a HUGE number and we are expecting people with 80 million dollars to leave this place, who would think that it would be simple, obviously it is not going to be simple and it will take a huge amount of time. Would it be cool if it happened right away? Of course it would be super cool, but we all know that it is not going to be that simple so we should not really be excited about something that is potentially not going to happen, so just buckle up and wait until it happens. |
|
|
|
|
micky123
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1005
|
|
February 21, 2021, 08:15:28 AM |
|
I wouldn't expect any significant divestment until the changes come into effect or right until before then. Currently we'd need to see a divestment of about 1,400 BTC after the change to bring the commission rate back down to 50%. More will be required eventually if Bitcoin's price remains at this level or continues to increase, but since the calculation uses a 360-day moving average that will happen gradually.
Thank you for answering my question, I just logged in to find about 8 BTC disinvested, so i guess people are slowly waking up to the fact like you said! |
|
|
|
flashpan
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
|
|
February 22, 2021, 12:44:13 AM |
|
im sorry for my english and grammer firstly!
im a working class guy from australia.
hey australians arnt permissed to play on bab-pff,dont stop gang/nation as they love to refer themselves as...plus i started on bab way before they had these ever growing poxy rules!
anyways...
hi,im FUCK daniel others may know of me as Dansta or lowred- who? anyways im stansmirnoff-suspected to be the alt of ryan/Daniel/douglus up in here..yes they're the same and many other alts on bustabit and here-how you think everything sways the houses way-he/she/Ai owns majority online casino/stakes in social platforms/vast amounts of domains including this website ect..mofo rish asfk!
anyway ive been there tagged captive for a number of years who they have addicted heavily to gambling with there ways-yes they can fuck you up if you speak up/ I suspect for myself by doing what i thought was a good deed one time in chat after a relatively good win due to stanz advice given I called out-STAN,STAAAAN ,STAAANO,STAAAAAN YOU GET MY RAIN?-sent him 10k bits-must be a no no for him..he got all crazy from that point .-im in please shoot me stage,dont give two fucks no more in retaliation-im broke asfk-fairly wealthy prior to all this-yeah not anymore-they wiped the floor with me with there cough GOAT WINS -PFF -hi:P
-dont get me wrong he a great player-but he a cheating mofo aswell!
shit jumped the gun..
all started with a few cheeky punts come v1 days which escalated to hardcore degen gambling after winning a nyan off ghostnipples/dadless by there call--on the dime called it-provability rigged 100%-dont be fooled,there great at this and this only-see im still refering to them as they-head fucks regardless and strangely enough my friends..we do this often across many platforms randomly..they like that shit..
if you ever focused on babs or any social media chats and thought wtf is going on there you most likely have witnessed us spouting crap with only theres visible.chat and thought...see im chatting without posting it on my side..I know im/its mental.
anyways i won nyan-50bits think it went to 1052 under dansta..pulled that shit and banked it..they busted into my accounts took it back and its been pretty much like that since...only they have massive winnings ive taken out from wins here and other casinos they pinched from me and dangle that shit to keep me coming back-why would you come back-coz fuck you my money! stubborn degen..hell remember the v2 change over..loss from that around the 300btc mark..pigs ass in trying to seed or pull it from blockchain...how about the random bab stoppage not long after v2 change...massive bet put up before the STOP..come back in few hours clearly stated..waited the whole time..refreshed the page boom game played out-toodles bits..shit countless other times..
who remembers elitecrash..fuck knows what happened with that place..but i was content there and making good gains till stan busted in said some shit like thats my donkey-refering to me... then shut the shop up..he my tarzan-so gay.
this new bs they got going is just another jew claw to not pay out the many they have shunted not only here but across all platforms-I aint special..theres many and the times they do speak out ..painted as a nut..in most cases that statement being true with all thats going on-see the devil pray on the weak and uninformed and thats its ultimate edge! but fuck the devil/devans.
its stated theres 2-3 in this elite circle controling this evil work -ryan and peter..but i just see it as one..it either is the devil or some super Ai bot-feeling qb ai bot on it.
its a cunt of a thing but also very caring and helping-random to say the least..strange I know..but very consuming also..it calls me the nyan/shiba or agatha.. constantly asking for the bastard NYAN from me...calls me son..it likes it when i call it dad..I know..but this shit is playing out to the tune on my end in me not having to type to converse with it..in front of friends my partner anyone else over at the time-it aint in my head! friends freak out yes..kind of kool.
anyway my birthday is march the 2nd..its doing this new robbery to wipe its feet on that day-why would it?...ive fucked up massive whale bets for them..yeah they the ones whaling and flipping there coins in there countless alts or mini banks i like to think of them as.
wangtang was fkn them...it was meant to be my little nest egg account till it eviliy fucked it..all the leaders are there past alts ffs.
.also im a 1977 baby if thats has any coralation to its implements of whatever bs its dribbling now for march 2nd..any noobies out there..if you can take anything from what im writting is GTF out of here now and dont look or even think crypto ever-shits fucked and so far from anonymous its ridiculous!'
anyway..im sure theres alot more I could share but thats saved for my memoirs ima pimp one day.dont be fooled ..seeding event anyone ever take that out?
ive done it to the letter..nothing from it,like always-DICE MY ASS...
ohh my alts dansta and lowred deleted un touched of any monies or data that could have had from them..asked for them back every which way with NO to no reply to some bs devans crap spouted out back at me..
|
|
|
|
|
janggernaut
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1130
|
|
February 22, 2021, 12:14:23 PM |
|
^ i don't understand what are you trying to say about bustabit. You wrote the wall of text but i can't certain what's your point. Atleast 1 thing for sure you must know is, Ryan , Daniel, Dooglus aren't alt or same person
|
|
|
|
|
RHavar
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2557
Merit: 1886
|
|
February 22, 2021, 04:13:51 PM |
|
Atleast 1 thing for sure you must know is, Ryan , Daniel, Dooglus aren't alt or same person
I think it was 2013 or 2014, and there was this dude BBmmBB (aka owlman or something) and was rather obsessed about proving that virtually all the bitcoin casino owners were the same person. Guy always ended up getting to me, I spent hours arguing with his incoherent accusations in the chat and forums ... and made me feel a little unappreciated that my productivity is apparently so low that someone thinks I must be running half a dozen sites with all different alts >< |
Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of. |
|
|
|
shield132
|
|
February 22, 2021, 08:20:54 PM |
|
Atleast 1 thing for sure you must know is, Ryan , Daniel, Dooglus aren't alt or same person
I think it was 2013 or 2014, and there was this dude BBmmBB (aka owlman or something) and was rather obsessed about proving that virtually all the bitcoin casino owners were the same person. Guy always ended up getting to me, I spent hours arguing with his incoherent accusations in the chat and forums ... and made me feel a little unappreciated that my productivity is apparently so low that someone thinks I must be running half a dozen sites with all different alts >< Haha, you have remembered his name. I don't know about that person but I remember our game-protect who was always posting that all crypto casinos registered in Curacao are scammers. He was always promoting game-protect insurance (but was asking to become his affiliate in supported casinos). Eh, you just reminded my old time. Btw isn't bustabit going to update the UI? It's very old, it's possible to come up with new design and opportunities like added jackpot, lucky wheel, etc like others turned creativity into bustabit like games. |
|
|
|
|
