Need a PayPal refund for your BFL purchase?

[jpmi1]

After multiple paypal calls, I personally do no think It will be possible to receive a refund from them. I have been and still am working with a manager to resolve this problem and receive a refund. I have mentioned that fact that they have been selling physical goods on a pre-order basis (for delivery later than 20 days) against Paypals terms of service and am asking for a refund. I also mentioned that I request a refund from BF Labs Inc I was refused saying "all orders are final" even though I have still not received delivery of my orders.

Any other help for my call with her tomorrow would be appreciated.

~Jpmi1

[OleOle]

Some advice required please.

I placed an order with BFL in late August 2013 as a result of their promise that they would be up to date and have all orders shipped out by "the end of September". Well, it's now almost the end of September and I've just checked my BFL account and it lists no change in my "processing order" status. I then also checked Jody's shipping blog of 27th September and the upgraded Jalapeno units I ordered are still back-logged to 28th February. That makes them a full seven months behind their 'promise' to deliver by the end of this month.

I was happy to take them on their word that they'd drafted in extra staff and resources and that they'd be able to meet their end of September deadline, however, this has now been shown to be completely unrealistic and yet another attempt to deceive customers and take advantage of their money and goodwill.

I used Paypal and I'll still be within 45 days for both the 5 GH/s unit cost and the additional 2 GH/s upgrade cost, what's the best way in your experience that I go about getting a Paypal refund please? Should I email david.marcus@paypal.com and executiveoffice@paypal.com immediately or should I be doing something else as I'm within the 45 days?

Thanks for any information that you can provide and kudos for helping the community like this, I have to say I was pleased and relieved to see your thread.

Since you're within the 45 days you should still be able to file a standard claim via the website to get your $ back.

Alright, I'm happy to report that I have received a refund from BFL via Paypal and the money has been credited into my bank account this morning. I'd like to thank everyone on this thread who has commented and shared their points of view on the whole process. Reading the thread was very helpful and rather than wait for the 'never never' and BFL to deliver at some unknown point in the future when mining difficulty has increased exponentially, I'm pleased to have taken the time to read this thread and to open a dispute resolution process with Paypal, who, it has to be said, were excellent and thoroughly professional in all my dealings with them.

A couple of remarks for those people who are still reading and still considering how to go about getting a refund. I cannot comment on what it's like to try to get a refund via Paypal after the 45 days from date of order, what I will say though is that there are plenty of examples on this and other threads where people have succeeded, so go for it, it is possible and it's your money. The dispute resolution process is basically you writing the circumstances of the transaction and non-delivery in 2000 words or less. After looking at some of the suggested templates and some of the observations on this thread, I decided that it would be far better me writing my own letter, rather than using any template. The reason for this is that by writing your own unique correspondence, it's obvious that you've taken the time to write your own portrayal of events, you're not forwarding a cut-and-paste response and you're letting Paypal know that the matter is serious and that you take the matter seriously. It's my gut feeling that many of the people being refused refunds by Paypal are those people you are just pumping off any old crappolla and not giving Paypal anything to work with. Tell the truth as you see it, be accurate with your dates, times, provide a link to Jody's shipping blog showing the delays. Be clear, articulate and tell it how it is. Remember you are in the right. Draft your response so that it's worthy of being actioned and if it doesn't get actioned the first time, be happy enough with what you've written so that you can forward it to more senior management in Paypal if necessary. Most people have been very reasonable, it's BFL that have been entirely unreasonable and broken almost every 'promised delivery timeframe' in the last year. Paypal are well aware of the situation, the refund comes from BFL, you'll get the email to prove it. Paypal will not be footing the bill, so your aim is to write clearly enough to provide enough ammunition that Paypal can insist that BFL offer you a refund. That's the task, that's what your letter to Paypal has to achieve. It's doable, so go do it, it will take less than one hour of your time. How many days, weeks, months have you waited?

Anyway, that's my two cents worth, hopefully it might help in some way.

Once again I'd like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, if I didn't see this thread I wouldn't have contacted Paypal and I wouldn't have received my refund, so thanks guys, it feels bloody good to get my money back. You can add AUD$529.10 or USD$462.00 to the running total of refunds received.

And lajz99, thanks for spearheading this initiative, please accept this small donation: c13f6e627477dbc6a87866143a0289b81eaae9ec600de8fd2d7257148d38a2ef

Good luck everyone!

[lajz99]

Thank you, glad it worked out and great advice!  I'm going to quote some of your post in the OP if you don't mind.

[OleOle]

Thank you, glad it worked out and great advice!  I'm going to quote some of your post in the OP if you don't mind.

Sure go for it.

Thanks again for all your help, I know I'm not the only person happy that you're doing this.

 

[colinistheman]

Hi guys,

Could you help me?

I have 2 orders with BFL (paid with PayPal around April 2013) that I would like to refund. One is for $308 and the other is for $1,283.

I have a few questions before I proceed.

1. Is it still possible to get a refund? Is it likely or unlikely right now?

2. Will I harm anything with my orders if I fail to get the refund?

3. And lastly, I have a Monarch order that I want to be unaffected despite my refunds on these other orders. Will it be?

[klondike_bar]

Hi guys,

Could you help me?

I have 2 orders with BFL (paid with PayPal around April 2013) that I would like to refund. One is for $308 and the other is for $1,283.

I have a few questions before I proceed.

1. Is it still possible to get a refund? Is it likely or unlikely right now?

2. Will I harm anything with my orders if I fail to get the refund?

3. And lastly, I have a Monarch order that I want to be unaffected despite my refunds on these other orders. Will it be?

1) yes. now more then ever, since BFL cannot keep a single promise. Most of the equipment now delivering is about 2-7 months later than expected. (I ordered in april expecting a jally mid-september, but based on schedule looks like mid-november would have been likely if i didnt get my refund)

2) good chance youll be banned from thier forums (lol)

3) refund your monarch. There is absolutely no reason to beleive that the production and shipping of the vaporware monarch device will be any different from the current failure, and by the expected delivery date (plus or minus 'two weeks') there will be many other options available immediately for similar pricing or less. The monarch pre-orders are an elaborate money-grab to cover the current failure and resulting costs of refunding orders

[dairy100]

Ok,
I have submitted the PayPal disputes. Both were closed within a minute due to being over 45 days. However, I then emailed three email addresses that I gathered from these forums with a well-written message asking for an escalation of my claims. I included these facts:

• the goods were sold on a pre-order basis for delivery in around 2 months
• you have not yet received delivery of the goods you ordered and it's been months
• they have continuously failed to meet delivery deadlines
• they have refused you a refund

The three email addresses I emailed are: david.marcus@paypal.com, executiveoffice@paypal.com, fraud@paypal.com

Did I do it right?

Sincerely,
Colin

there's a phone number you can try too: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Help/general/TopQuestion10-outside

[colinistheman]

Thank you

[yamancool63]

So I tried this method 8? days ago, and my dispute, emails, and phone calls with PayPal all resulted in me not getting my money back. I have gone through my bank, and a "conditional credit" showed up in my account yesterday after contacting them on the 3rd and explaining the entire situation.

Success? We'll have to see. But I have my money back as of now. We'll see if those bastards try and ship to me.

[androsyn]

Contact someone @ phishing@commercebank.com.

Ask them about how to report (what you suspect is fraud) at commerce bank.



1) Tell them you paid for an item 1 (or more) months ago and you have not received the item you paid for.

2) Tell them you paid with a wire transfer (for those who paid with a wire transfer only) and that BFL has not sent you the miner you paid for within a [very] reasonable period of time.

3) Add notes about your transaction ID, dates, amounts sent, purpose for contacting them about your wire transfer. Let them know you have already contacted BFL and they have refused offering a refund for their poor business practice.

4) Let them know about the PayPal merchant account situation and that it was one of the Payment Processors that shut them down for ....well I don't know the official reason...

5) Let them know of the sheer number of complaints at the Kansas AG (Attorney General), the Local Police Department and District Attorney has on file.

Report back and let the community know if they give you an email or phone number which is not listed.

thank you so much, I forgot about calling BFL bank..Contacted today! Will let you know soon

They replied my mail today. They basically avoid to be involved and declare they have nothing to do with BFL business. Not so cooperative as I hoped.
They cannot help me get refunds from BFL and can take no action for me.

[mamutin]

I am in trouble with getting a refund.

I tried the Normal way with PayPal, but that did not help. After that i tried to to get the money back from the credit card company. This not completed til now.

Butterfly Labs now says:
> “It has been sent to the hosting company.”
http://s17.postimg.org/eh2ma5chb/bestaetigung_No_Name.png

If I ask at the Hosting Company they say:

> “I currently do not have your gear, ..”

I assume, that Bfl is acting in pure intention to defraud.

My Order was in July, but the current deliver date is Februay – March. That is what you can see at https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/

[colinistheman]

I am in trouble with getting a refund.

I tried the Normal way with PayPal, but that did not help. After that i tried to to get the money back from the credit card company. This not completed til now.

Butterfly Labs now says:
> “It has been sent to the hosting company.”


If I ask at the Hosting Company they say:

> “I currently do not have your gear, ..”

I assume, that Bfl is acting in pure intention to defraud.

My Order was in July, but the current deliver date is Februay – March. That is what you can see at https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/

wow, that sounds like a pure and simple lie, since they obviously have not gotten to July orders yet.

You could ask BFL for the tracking number they used to send it to the hosting company... but they probably would lie and use some other tracking number or something.

[mamutin]

wow, that sounds like a pure and simple lie, since they obviously have not gotten to July orders yet.

You could ask BFL for the tracking number they used to send it to the hosting company... but they probably would lie and use some other tracking number or something.

I did ask BFL for a tracking number, but they did not answer until now.

[Bicknellski]

I am in trouble with getting a refund.

I tried the Normal way with PayPal, but that did not help. After that i tried to to get the money back from the credit card company. This not completed til now.

Butterfly Labs now says:
> “It has been sent to the hosting company.”


If I ask at the Hosting Company they say:

> “I currently do not have your gear, ..”

I assume, that Bfl is acting in pure intention to defraud.

My Order was in July, but the current deliver date is Februay – March. That is what you can see at https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/

wow, that sounds like a pure and simple lie, since they obviously have not gotten to July orders yet.

You could ask BFL for the tracking number they used to send it to the hosting company... but they probably would lie and use some other tracking number or something.

At what point does the community finally see what BFL is doing, label them as scammers, and simply walk away from their products and let BFL as a company fade off into obscurity?

[OleOle]

At what point does the community finally see what BFL is doing, label them as scammers, and simply walk away from their products and let BFL as a company fade off into obscurity?

In my opinion, the sooner that happens, the better.

I think many people have already reached that point individually and hardly a day goes by without additional bad press for BFL. I managed to secure a refund from them and I'll never be dealing with them again.

[mamutin]

Has anybody an Idea to contact BFL? Emails do not get answered. I tried the telephone number 1-800-809-MINE (6463) from the web side, but it seams just to be a kind of Voicebox.

[Blazed]

Shame this forum lets them keep advertising.. I guess BTC talks..

[finlof]

add another to the list of refunds!  just got this today!  created the paypal refund request on Oct 4, 2013, and got the refund Oct 16, 2013.  will be sending a tip to OP.  to those who want a refund through paypal this is how i got mine.

1. enter a dispute online
2. after it gets rejected for the "out of 45 day" time period
3. log into your paypal acct and go to resolution center and write down your case (change the view to all cases)
4. click contact us at the bottom of page
5. click call us on the right side of the page (should give you a phone number (probably 888-221-1161) with a one-time code
6. call it and enter your code when it asks you
7. say case resolution
8. say no (to ebay purchase)
9. say existing
10. say yes and enter the dispute/claim ID.
11. when they give you the status of the claim say agent.
12. when the agent comes on the line tell him the deal with BFL (fraud, pre-orders, wont let you cancel pre-order, wont refund, cant give you a date when your item will ship, etc).  tell them to look at this company's history of complaints and refunds from paypal.  ask them to process a refund.  they issued me a new case ID for this.
13. wait the 10 days and when BFL doesnt respond to them (cause they wont) call paypal back and go through the same deal as above and get an agent on the line.
14. they will review and close the case and refund you.


*************************************************************************************************
We have completed our investigation for the following claim:
 
Transaction Details
------------------------------
Seller's Name: BF Labs Inc.
Seller's Email: office@butterflylabs.com Seller's Transaction ID: 3GGxxxxxxxxxxx933

Transaction Date: Mar 4, 2013
Transaction Amount: -$683.00 USD
Invoice ID: 100019393
Your Transaction ID: 3XAxxxxxxxxxxx32A
Case Number: PP-002-xxx-xxx-xx1

Buyer's Transaction ID: 3XAxxxxxxxxxxx32A
------------------------------
 
We have decided this case in your favor and you will receive a full refund in your PayPal account within the next 3-5 days.
*************************************************************************************************

[Threader]

PayPal has business sense. Lets just say they can't get blood money from the BFL stone then PayPal just likely pay everyone's BFL refund claims and avoid bad publicity.

[Bicknellski]

add another to the list of refunds!  just got this today!  created the paypal refund request on Oct 4, 2013, and got the refund Oct 16, 2013.  will be sending a tip to OP.  to those who want a refund through paypal this is how i got mine.

1. enter a dispute online
2. after it gets rejected for the "out of 45 day" time period
3. log into your paypal acct and go to resolution center and write down your case (change the view to all cases)
4. click contact us at the bottom of page
5. click call us on the right side of the page (should give you a phone number (probably 888-221-1161) with a one-time code
6. call it and enter your code when it asks you
7. say case resolution
8. say no (to ebay purchase)
9. say existing
10. say yes and enter the dispute/claim ID.
11. when they give you the status of the claim say agent.
12. when the agent comes on the line tell him the deal with BFL (fraud, pre-orders, wont let you cancel pre-order, wont refund, cant give you a date when your item will ship, etc).  tell them to look at this company's history of complaints and refunds from paypal.  ask them to process a refund.  they issued me a new case ID for this.
13. wait the 10 days and when BFL doesnt respond to them (cause they wont) call paypal back and go through the same deal as above and get an agent on the line.
14. they will review and close the case and refund you.


*************************************************************************************************
We have completed our investigation for the following claim:
 
Transaction Details
------------------------------
Seller's Name: BF Labs Inc.
Seller's Email: office@butterflylabs.com Seller's Transaction ID: 3GGxxxxxxxxxxx933

Transaction Date: Mar 4, 2013
Transaction Amount: -$683.00 USD
Invoice ID: 100019393
Your Transaction ID: 3XAxxxxxxxxxxx32A
Case Number: PP-002-xxx-xxx-xx1

Buyer's Transaction ID: 3XAxxxxxxxxxxx32A
------------------------------
 
We have decided this case in your favor and you will receive a full refund in your PayPal account within the next 3-5 days.
*************************************************************************************************

And the refunds keep coming...