Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.

[mgio]

First, Cointerra is MUCH cheaper at about $3/GH/s. That's a factor of more than 3!

HashFast second batch is cheaper too at $8.75/GH/s and they are supposed to deliver in November!

To be fair, you cant just compare hardware cost with a hosted solution. Put that cointerra in a datacenter with electrcity/cooling/monitoring/redudant everything included for a year, and you end up paying a lot more than $3/GH/year too.

Sure, I was just responding to the person that said this was the cheapest hardware out there right now.

[bcp19]

Using http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/d9fe520f0d which I feel is a fair outlook for Jan, make Sept 2013 = Jan 2014 and you can see these is a chance for positive RoI using a 10% increase monthly.

10%? Per month? What a joke.

You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May.... To give you a clearer picture, that's starting from ~7-8 times the current hashrate and then adding the current hashrate to it monthly to start with.  While the monthly rate is high now, it cannot sustain that rate indefinitely.  I'm looking at realistic projections given the current estimates of all companies.

[smoothie]

Simple solution: Never send money to someone until they have a product in stock.

[goxed]

Now they are selling hashing power....https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

[Threader]

Now they are selling hashing power....https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

Late to the party? Did you skip to the end of the thread?

[Syke]

You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May

Pumping out 800 TH/s in Jan is going to be easy. That's only a few thousand chips.

[bcp19]

You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May

Pumping out 800 TH/s in Jan is going to be easy. That's only a few thousand chips.

Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

[Syke]

Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue. So yeah, $3million per month is going to be cake.

[goxed]

Now they are selling hashing power....https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

Late to the party? Did you skip to the end of the thread?

haha yea

[Pt0x]

OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

(predicted by me 12 days ago)

[southerngentuk]

OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money...

Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next.   

[Flying Hellfish]

OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money...

Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next.    

Maybe he should suggest an offshore BTC lottery scam site as BFL's next offering. 

[Pt0x]

OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money...

Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next.    

Maybe he should suggest an offshore BTC lottery scam site as BFL's next offering. 

I'm sure they read this: http://thegenesisblock.com/op-ed-bitcoin-minings-inevitable-centralized-future/

[bcp19]

Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue. So yeah, $3million per month is going to be cake.

You forgot to consider power costs.  Using the absolute best power/GH of .7 you'd need ~40.32 gigawatts of power per month or $4.032million minimum at a mere $.10/kw.  Since these aren't even supposed to be out until January let's look at what will be out.  If you use D&T's estimates and average, you get ~2.1W/GH or ~$8.4million at $.10/kw.  Many people have much worse power costs, but still, you expect ~50% of 'profits' to be immediately used to buy more equipment monthly?

[Syke]

You forgot to consider power costs.  Using the absolute best power/GH of .7 you'd need ~40.32 gigawatts of power per month or $4.032million minimum at a mere $.10/kw. Since these aren't even supposed to be out until January let's look at what will be out.

My miners are already running power/GH of .75 at $.02/kw energy today. I expect to have something significantly better by 2014.

If you use D&T's estimates and average, you get ~2.1W/GH or ~$8.4million at $.10/kw.  Many people have much worse power costs, but still, you expect ~50% of 'profits' to be immediately used to buy more equipment monthly?

If you're mining at 2.1 W/GH and $.10/kw, your days are numbered. The rest of us will leave you behind.

[Bicknellski]

Simple solution: Never send money to someone until they have a product in stock.

Or have never missed their shipping dates...

[Bicknellski]

But this cloud hashing takes all the fun out of it.  I might as well buy and hold BTC or just watch my stock portfolio.

Psst! I think most would point to the fun has left the building after GPU's got killed off.

[Puppet]

You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May

Pumping out 800 TH/s in Jan is going to be easy. That's only a few thousand chips.

Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

Thats where you get it fundamentally wrong. A few thousand more chips is a few tens of thousands more dollars in production cost, be it today or in 6 months or 12 months. Yes, someone will spend that kind of money (and lots more) to be able to sell it at a profit, even if that profit will diminish month after month and will be no where near were it is today.

As long as the market price per GH is well above production cost (likely <$0.1 per GH for the asic) more chips will be produced and added to the network. The price of this chips isnt set, its merely a result of demand, ie, their perceived profitability to the miner.

[Geo_log]

3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue.

- it is  2016 blocks * 25BTC / 11 days = 4500 BTC/day at current difficulty increase. Or 4500 * 30 * $130/BTC = $17.5million/month.

[Puppet]

3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue.

- it is  2016 blocks * 25BTC / 11 days = 4500 BTC/day at current difficulty increase. Or 4500 * 30 * $130/BTC = $17.5million/month.

You can argue that, but be aware that you are implicitly assuming an inflow of extra fiat to maintain that btc exchange rate.
The more blocks are mined per month due to the speed of growth of the network, the more inflation we have and the more fresh fiat needs to flow in to exchanges to maintain that constant btc price.