The Space Industry: An example of why governments fail and freedom prevails.

[rainingbitcoins]

Of course the irony here (which is of course completely lost on a pup such as yourself) Atlas is that you are typing this on a computer and sending it over the Internet for us to see.  Computer technology sprung out of NASA research (invented the first microprocessor) while you can pen a letter to DARPA thanking them for the Internet.

Which if they still had ahold of, would still be Green-on-black text only.

And Dialup.

Your Point: that government doesn't commoditize technology well which is best left to the private sector.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be invented first.

Your point: That only Government can come up with new technology.

Patently false.

That's pretty great how you intentionally misread his comment just half a page after accusing him of putting words in your mouth!

His obvious point was that commercial endeavors tend to focus on things that they can start selling now or in a year or two or whatever instead of the hard science that leads to amazing things, but may take a decade or two to show concrete results. Or may never show them, a terrifying prospect if your only objective is profit. And that's absolutely right. The list he posted contains some of the most significant discoveries of the last 60 years.

There is no reason to conclude that just because the government helped fund certain endeavors or because the government grants private monopolies to inventors via patents, that therefore these things would never have been invented without the government.

There's absolutely a reason to conclude that. The one just mentioned. Corporations are really great at taking existing technology and putting a clock in it, and not so great at coming up with world-changing technology through pure research.

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[ascent]

There's absolutely a reason to conclude that. The one just mentioned. Corporations are really great at taking existing technology and putting a clock in it, and not so great at coming up with world-changing technology through pure research.

Myrkul wears some seriously opaque blinders. He will conveniently forget your point within a a few minutes after reading it. Debating him is pointless.

[myrkul]

There's absolutely a reason to conclude that. The one just mentioned. Corporations are really great at taking existing technology and putting a clock in it, and not so great at coming up with world-changing technology through pure research.

Uh huh. You keep telling yourself that.

[rainingbitcoins]

Seriously? Dude names the most amazing inventions of our time and the best you have to bring to the table is something invented in 1880? That was heavily based on decades of prior research in the first place?

[myrkul]

Seriously? Dude names the most amazing inventions of our time and the best you have to bring to the table is something invented in 1880? That was heavily based on decades of prior research in the first place?

Excuse me, I don't have hours upon hours to compose a post to people whose opinions, ultimately mean absolutely squat to me.

[ascent]

Excuse me, I don't have hours upon hours to compose a post to people whose opinions, ultimately mean absolutely squat to me.

Fuck you, asshole.

You demand that I respond with huge explanations regarding what should be obvious. So don't be a fucking hypocrite. Oh, and you're naive and your stupid half baked ideas are just that: half baked.

[rainingbitcoins]

Myrkul wears some seriously opaque blinders. He will conveniently forget your point within a a few minutes after reading it. Debating him is pointless.

Excuse me, I don't have hours upon hours to compose a post to people whose opinions, ultimately mean absolutely squat to me.

Yeah, I see what you mean, ascent. Mykrul, I really don't see how it should take you "hours upon hours" to come up with a short list to counter the one already posted... if that list exists, anyway.

If you don't want to even try to honestly debate this stuff, why are you posting about it?

[myrkul]

Excuse me, I don't have hours upon hours to compose a post to people whose opinions, ultimately mean absolutely squat to me.

Fuck you, asshole.

Love you too. 

[myrkul]

Yeah, I see what you mean, ascent. Mykrul, I really don't see how it should take you "hours upon hours" to come up with a short list to counter the one already posted... if that list exists, anyway.

If you don't want to even try to honestly debate this stuff, why are you posting about it?

You're right. It wouldn't. But all the same, I don't have the mental cycles to expend digging up privately funded research projects.

And the reason I went back to 1880? It was the surest way to find something I could be certain had no government intervention.

That was when the really big stuff was happening, anyway, the steam locomotive, the light bulb, the telegraph, all the technologies our current ones are based on.

[ascent]

But all the same, I don't have the mental cycles to expend digging up privately funded research projects.

But I'm supposed to engage in untold hours and mental cycles in regurgitating cases, examples and logical arguments explaining how your model has some serious defects in it when I can just point you to some well written books which provide numerous examples of the problems plaguing our planet today?

I seem to recall on numerous occasions pointing you to some literature, and each and every fucking time, you demanded that I argue and point out these things step by step.

Hypocrite. 

[myrkul]

But all the same, I don't have the mental cycles to expend digging up privately funded research projects.

But I'm supposed to engage in untold hours and mental cycles in regurgitating cases, examples and logical arguments explaining how your model has some serious defects in it when I can just point you to some well written books which provide numerous examples of the problems plaguing our planet today?

I seem to recall on numerous occasions pointing you to some literature, and each and every fucking time, you demanded that I argue and point out these things step by step.

Hypocrite. 

You are saying 'my' system is flawed.
I ask Why.
You say, It's in this book.


I am saying "Government is not the only people doing research"
You're asking me to research, and find out which projects are funded how.
I say, "no".

If I had all of this in my head, it would be a simple matter to regurgitate it. It's not, I'd have to look it up, and for that matter, look up where to look it up. Doesn't sound like my idea of a fun evening. All I'm asking is that you explain your position, something which I have created 3 threads to do for mine. So. Whine all you want. I don't feel like wasting my time on you any more.

[rainingbitcoins]

It's easy to be married to an ideology when you purposefully ignore any evidence contrary to it, but it certainly doesn't mean anyone is going to respect your ideas or even take you seriously.

[ascent]

You are saying 'my' system is flawed.
I ask Why.
You say, It's in this book.


I am saying "Government is not the only people doing research"
You're asking me to research, and find out which projects are funded how.
I say, "no".

If I had all of this in my head, it would be a simple matter to regurgitate it. It's not, I'd have to look it up, and for that matter, look up where to look it up. Doesn't sound like my idea of a fun evening. All I'm asking is that you explain your position, something which I have created 3 threads to do for mine. So. Whine all you want. I don't feel like wasting my time on you any more.

Your system is not proven. The burden lies upon you to show how it can work at every objection put forth against it. This is your system that you want. You're not being scientific, and that makes your argument very flimsy.

There are countless issues that you have just brushed aside. You're not interested in making your theory strong. You're only interested in making it sound like it's more developed than it is. We can discuss discrimination, ownership, sustainability, the environment, technology, safety, the list goes on. And every issue - you think you've won - but you haven't. You've only blustered your way through, happy that you think you've presented a formidable defense, but if you'd take the blinders off, you'd realize how woefully short your arguments come up against numerous objections to it.

Since this thread is about space, let's talk space. Here goes...

Compare the accomplishments of NASA to privately funded space accomplishments.

[myrkul]

It's easy to be married to an ideology when you purposefully ignore any evidence contrary to it, but it certainly doesn't mean anyone is going to respect your ideas or even take you seriously.

I'm still waiting for him to present any evidence. I don't have the time to waste wading through treatises when he could simply point out the flaws, if he actually understood them.

[rainingbitcoins]

I'm still waiting for him to present any evidence. I don't have the time to waste wading through treatises when he could simply point out the flaws, if he actually understood them.

People have constantly pointed out the flaws of your beliefs in this thread and others, and everything you can't answer, you just ignore. Or tell them it would be too much work to defend your own beliefs. I don't know who you think you're fooling, except possibly yourself.

[ascent]

I'm still waiting for him to present any evidence. I don't have the time to waste wading through treatises when he could simply point out the flaws, if he actually understood them.

While you're waiting, be constructive and engage in that comparison I requested of you.

[myrkul]

I'm still waiting for him to present any evidence. I don't have the time to waste wading through treatises when he could simply point out the flaws, if he actually understood them.

People have constantly pointed out the flaws of your beliefs in this thread and others, and everything you can't answer, you just ignore. Or tell them it would be too much work to defend your own beliefs. I don't know who you think you're fooling, except possibly yourself.

Point out the flaws that I have 'skipped', and I'll answer them. You may want to do so in another thread, though. This one is getting in danger of being derailed.

[ascent]

Point out the flaws that I have 'skipped', and I'll answer them. You may want to do so in another thread, though. This one is getting in danger of being derailed.

I have been pointing out flaws for about a month now. That's very hypocritical of you to demand that we point out flaws (which we have been doing) while you claim you don't have the mental cycles to engage in the defense of your own theory. Now, about that list I requested from you...

[myrkul]

So. Whine all you want. I don't feel like wasting my time on you any more.

[rainingbitcoins]

Point out the flaws that I have 'skipped', and I'll answer them. You may want to do so in another thread, though. This one is getting in danger of being derailed.

If you didn't answer them the first time, why would anyone ever think you'd do it the second time?  You refuse to do any work whatsoever to come up with arguments that people will read and respond to honestly, yet at the same time you ask others to put in time and effort to argue with you while admitting that their opinions mean "absolutely squat" to you and that you won't take them seriously.

I mean, what the hell?