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 Author Topic: Religion is a plague  (Read 11576 times)
opticbit
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 July 21, 2011, 04:11:01 AM

we have evolved to have a part of the brain that follows and believes in religion, its part of getting along an groups, hasn't exactly evolved to the point it needs to.

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foggyb
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 July 21, 2011, 04:52:15 AM

Also: an epileptic chimp could write error correcting code if given a few billion years to debug.

No, the chimp could not.

I am not a binary coding guru, so I can't show the math proofs that its impossible to happen. But i know it will never happen.

Lets try a simpler problem for the chimp to solve, for example: what are the odds that the chimp could type on a standard keyboard, 1 letter per second, the entire alphabet (at random) in sequential order (A-Z)? No big deal, right? Much easier project than a self-correcting code.

(I'm going to round off the numbers a lot to make it easier)

Ok, to get an A on the first try, is a  1 in 26 chance. Fine, not too bad. >>>>  26 seconds on average.
Lets try for A + B. To get this we multiply 26 * 26 = 1 in 676.             >>>>  11 minutes. Lots of time to spare! This will be easy!
Now for A + B + C. Answer is 26 * 26 * 26 = 1 in 17,576                    >>>> 5 hours! Still fun!
A + B + C + D = 1 in 456,976                                                           >>>> 5 days. Whoo!
A + B + C + D + E = 1 in  30 million                                                  >>>> 5 months. *Yawn.*
..........
skip a few
..........
A-J = 1 in 14 trillion                                                                        >>>> 4.5 million years *starts to sweat* wher da time go??
A-K = 1 in 3670344486987776                                                        >>>> 15 Trillion years (15,000 billion)

Unfortunately, the chimp died 14.995 trillion years ago. He only made it to A-J, plus he spent most of the life of the universe trying to get ONE SEQUENCE (A-K) and never reached 1% of all the combinations of A-K.

CONCLUSION: FORGET IT!

What if we had 1 million chimps doing the work:
A-K = 1 in  3670344486987776 divided by 1 million chimps
Answer: 1 in 3.6 billion, or 116 years of work. Cool! Lets keep going!
A-Q = 1 in 1133827315385150725554176 or 35.9 billion years.
1 Million CHIMPS HAVE FAILED IN 7 universe lifetimes!

Conclusion: TOTALLY FORGET IT. THIS CANNOT HAPPEN AT RANDOM.
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 July 21, 2011, 05:02:42 AM

Conclusion: TOTALLY FORGET IT. THIS CANNOT HAPPEN AT RANDOM.

Congratulations, you have conclusively proved.... fuck all. An infinitesimal chance exists that the chimp hits abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz all right in a row on the very first time. 26 seconds total.

Life occurred on this planet. We got the lucky chimp. that is all.

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foggyb
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 July 21, 2011, 05:21:12 AM

Conclusion: TOTALLY FORGET IT. THIS CANNOT HAPPEN AT RANDOM.

Congratulations, you have conclusively proved.... fuck all. An infinitesimal chance exists that the chimp hits abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz all right in a row on the very first time. 26 seconds total.

Life occurred on this planet. We got the lucky chimp. that is all.

Sure, let's give the chimp a mulligan on the first run.

Hahaha big win, the chimp typed A-Z. That was the easy part.

Now do it again.

Cause the chimp has just finished learning the alphabet, now he needs to learn python coding.

Bye chimp. You get a coffee break in 5 trillion years.

Life on this planet evolving by chance involves FAR FAR greater odds than A-Z sequentially (which is only 26 consecutive events).

How many steps to evolving a single celled organism? A 100,000? Ten million? They all have to happen in sequence, just like typing the alphabet in order.

I find it fascinating how people can brush off these enormous numbers, and the staggering odds like they were NOTHING. I had to use a scientific calculator to get the numbers to fit on the screen without using powers.

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 July 21, 2011, 05:28:05 AM

Ok, Just so I have this straight, your arguments for the existence of God is:

"The prophet Elijah said there were a lot of stars"
and
"DNA is too complex to not be intentional"?

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foggyb
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 July 21, 2011, 05:30:08 AM

Ok, Just so I have this straight, your arguments for the existence of God is:

"The prophet Elijah said there were a lot of stars"
and
"DNA is too complex to not be intentional"?

My argument? Dude, the numbers are arguing with you!

Plus, that was a crappy response from you, so whatever. Many people don't understand the power of math. Satoshi does!

Not going to debate with you further.
myrkul
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 July 21, 2011, 05:34:08 AM

Ok, Just so I have this straight, your arguments for the existence of God is:

"The prophet Elijah said there were a lot of stars"
and
"DNA is too complex to not be intentional"?

My argument? Dude, the numbers are arguing with you!

You do realize that you are on a forum specifically about performing 6 highly unlikely actions every hour, arguing that because one highly unlikely action happened billions of years ago, there must exist a force, outside space and time, that has set it all in motion?

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josell
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 July 21, 2011, 05:37:57 AM

I am religious and i accept evolution.

Because for real christians, truth should be sacred.

Anyway, evolution show every form of life comes from a very point. Then everything in the universe came from a poin as well. A fountain.

Religious people dont use God to explain that fountain; in fact, the call that obvious fountain GOD.
but the maters is that there will be the fountain wathever you call it God or not.

The ancient atheist indian materialistist school teached that nothing happened; no begining nor end. All have been the same every time. But science kick them... So not just religious people have to be ignorant just because they believe in something. Many religious people have been inspired by their God to discover the beautiful of crration, even some scientist.
foggyb
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 July 21, 2011, 05:48:05 AM

I am religious and i accept evolution.

Because for real christians, truth should be sacred.

Jesus Christ is the creator who made all things. Do you deny that truth?

Do you deny Genesis? You must deny it to accept evolution. If you deny Genesis, then there is no faith.

The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events according to evolution theory. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events according to evolution is the opposite.
josell
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 July 21, 2011, 05:55:05 AM

I am religious and i accept evolution.

Because for real christians, truth should be sacred.

Jesus Christ is the creator who made all things. Do you deny that truth?

Do you deny Genesis? You must deny it to accept evolution. If you deny Genesis, then there is no faith.

The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events according to evolution theory. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events according to evolution is the opposite.

Genesis describes the human nature and its propouse, rather than explain it. I can believe that there was no evolution, but it would be a lie to myself. My faith in stronger with evolution, because faith have to be based on truth. For example: We have faith in a doctor, not in a witch, for a procedure. that doesn mean I have not faith, but that my faith is deposet on that truth.

God bless you!
myrkul
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 July 21, 2011, 05:56:18 AM

I am religious and i accept evolution.

Because for real christians, truth should be sacred.

Jesus Christ is the creator who made all things. Do you deny that truth?

Do you deny Genesis? You must deny it to accept evolution. If you deny Genesis, then there is no faith.

The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events according to evolution theory. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events according to evolution is the opposite.

Imagine that... They got it wrong. Maybe your book, written 3,000 years ago, by people who still shat in ditches and wrote by the light of oil lamps... doesn't contain the whole of scientific knowledge?

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josell
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 July 21, 2011, 06:12:25 AM

I am religious and i accept evolution.

Because for real christians, truth should be sacred.

There are many things in the bible that are not scientific, how would you reply to that?
well, Im not jewish, so I can't reply it.

However, I dont like it for its science, but for its wisdom. It may be not perfect nor scientific, but human... Even 2000 years after.
myrkul
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 July 21, 2011, 06:16:44 AM

However, I dont like it for its science, but for its wisdom. It may be not perfect nor scientific, but human... Even 2000 years after.

Bingo. The Bible is not a technical manual. Nor The Torah, nor The Qur'an. They are guideposts to proper behavior. If more people read the fucking things instead of concentrating on trumpeting their truth, perhaps life would not be so fucked up?

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myrkul
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 July 21, 2011, 07:17:06 AM

However, I dont like it for its science, but for its wisdom. It may be not perfect nor scientific, but human... Even 2000 years after.

Bingo. The Bible is not a technical manual. Nor The Torah, nor The Qur'an. They are guideposts to proper behavior. If more people read the fucking things instead of concentrating on trumpeting their truth, perhaps life would not be so fucked up?

If you need a pair of more crutches to walk the path of your life,
more power to you. Don't try to foist the damn thing on the rest of us.

I think you may have missed my point... let me clarify. What I meant was that if more religious people spent more time reading the books they profess hold universal truths instead of trying to convince the rest of us (or each other), life would be much better... and there would be about half as many wars in history.

If, instead, I have missed your point, and you were agreeing with me, I apologize.

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foggyb
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 July 21, 2011, 02:18:00 PM

Christians, Muslims, Jews and other monotheists almost all believe might makes right. They worship God because they believe He is all-powerful.  I asked many Christians if they would still worship God if Satan was more powerful.  Few responded. You could see smoke coming from their ears. They tried to weasel out question. Ultimately the answer for almost all of them is "no". They would worship Satan if Satan was all-powerful.

Might=right for these people. This is why they are Statists and why they are perfectly comfortable with a system centered around a violence monopoly.

Its a nonsense question. Its illogical, a logical fallacy. If Satan were more powerful, then God wouldn't be God, would he. That is the essence of God.

Its as nonsensical as this question: If there was no law of gravity, would you still obey it?

If you want to have a sensible debate, you can't base your argument on foolishness.
LeFBI
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 July 21, 2011, 03:30:17 PM

If god exists, where did he/she/it came from? Who/what made/created him/her/it?
There is no scientific evidence for the existence of any god. It's all unproven claims.
The bible was written by humans over hundreds of years and before they wrote it down, they played the telephone game/Chinese whispers.
The earth isn't flat.
Church bells are as annoying as a yelling muezzin.

Religion for me is just drugs for the masses. But as long as they are peaceful and don't try to convince other people of their beliefs, force anyone to convert to their religion or start religious wars....i don't give a fuck.
But i'm annoyed by those people who ring at my door saying "hi, we want to talk about god." .... -___-

Hail to the flying spaghetti monster.
josell
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 July 21, 2011, 03:48:56 PM

If god exists, where did he/she/it came from? Who/what made/created him/her/it?
There is no scientific evidence for the existence of any god. It's all unproven claims.
it depends on how you define God. If I say that God is a man sitting on the clauds, the I am an atheist, because it is absurd. However, if I define God as the fountain of everithing, the will not matter wathever if he is spaguetti or a man; just God, whathever name -ridiculous or not- you give to him.

However, I cant see and say how is God. I only say that everything comes from somewhere for logical reasons.

I can say that universe have ever existed, but thas imposible, because there is time and befin in this universe. so logicaly the cause of the universe in external to the time -- have ever existed.

Gos is not and not attempt to be a scientific theory. I dont prove game rules with scientific method. I dont use the scientific method to make moral laws. Why? Because those things are not science nor baser on sicentific method. God is a religious and philosophical idea that attempts to describe the relation of the humanity with the universe. Thats all.
foggyb
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 July 21, 2011, 06:24:36 PM

it depends on how you define God. If I say that God is a man sitting on the clauds, the I am an atheist, because it is absurd. However, if I define God as the fountain of everithing, the will not matter wathever if he is spaguetti or a man; just God, whathever name -ridiculous or not- you give to him.

Why would an all-powerful God be dependent on OUR definition of him? That's an absurd concept. If God IS GOD, then surely he would define his own creation, not the other way around. And if he is only what you imagine him to be, then he exists only in your mind! Then why believe in such a silly notion? The only way that I personally can believe in the infinite God, is if I can search for evidence of his work in the universe around me, and FIND IT!

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but it is the honor of kings to search out a matter.
Proverbs 25:2
LeFBI
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 July 21, 2011, 07:15:55 PM

I dont use the scientific method to make moral laws. Why? Because those things are not science nor baser on sicentific method.
Most moral laws in religions such as "You shall not murder." or "You shall not steal." are just common sense. Those moral laws are just human and independent from any religious beliefs, you can find the same moral laws (or norms and values) in every culture on this planet. The belief in god/allah/shiva/FSM/whatever is what makes the difference in religion. The church claims the existence of an all-knowing and almighty creature or "it" called god without providing any proof for this claim and teaches it as fact, not as theory. With that logic i could also say "In the rainforest, there exist green unicorns that have consensual sexual intercourse in missionary position with Leprechauns until they are filled up and explode. It's a fact that doesn't need any proof.". If you claim the existence of something, you have to provide evidence. Moral laws have nothing to do with that.
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