Should I pay my Traffic Tickets?

[dwdoc]

I don't know how it works in California, but in Canada they simply throw you in jail = criminal record.

I've already been arrested before. America will arrest you for nothing. I know that's true with most every country

You are going through phases of grief because of your traffic tickets (currently stuck some where between bargaining and anger).  The sooner you get to depression and acceptance and pay your fines, the sooner you will avoid getting arrested for driving without a license followed by more phases of grief.

[01BTC10]

I don't know how it works in California, but in Canada they simply throw you in jail = criminal record.

They don't incarcerate you for debts in Canada.  Not sure how it works in Quebec, but in Alberta if you don't pay your tickets you simply lose registration access.  You can no longer renew your driver's license, car registration, etc.  It's the same as if you don't pay child support.

In Quebec, they suspend your license then throw you in jail if you persist at not paying your fine. Alternatively, you are offered to do community work instead.

It looks like it's the same in Alberta:

3. What Happens if I do not Pay My Fine?
This depends on who issued the fine in the first place, the amount of the fine and the severity of the offence. Unpaid fines can result in a range of penalties.

If you do not pay City or Provincial fines, you may not be able to register a vehicle or renew a driver's license until the amounts are paid. If there are multiple violations or a large fine that has not been paid, there is a chance that a warrant will be issued, and that you may be arrested and held in custody.
 
Unpaid Criminal fines carry severe consequences. Each criminal fine carries "Days in Default", which are the number of days a person will spend in jail if the fine is not paid at the due date. The bottom line is if you do not pay criminal fines on time, there is a good chance that you will go to jail. Note that larger Provincial Offences, such as Driving with No Insurance, are 'pay or stay' fines and if unpaid, a warrant will always be issued.

http://www.slsedmonton.com/criminal/unpaid-fines-and-debt/

If you don't pay your ticket then it will eventually become a "large" unpaid fine.

There is a clear distinction between debt and police fine:

4. Can collection agencies send you to jail?
No. The police do not become involved in debt collection.

[grue]

Thanks TECSHARE, so this worked in California? This is the first court 'hearing' date I assume otherwise it would be an officer against me

I highly doubt his argument worked. If it did, every lawyer would be using it as a precedent in their cases, and it would be a landmark case. Not to mention being paid by the state doesn't imply the judge won't be able to give an impartial hearing.

Ive had 11 Nolles, all I had to do was put on a tie and say I was sorry. Two of the nolles didn't even require me to show up to court - I got the notification by mail.

No knowledge of law needed here.

Plead not guilty.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but apology implies you admit to doing it.

[btc4ever]

I would be curious ( and entertained ) to see someone try this in a california court.

First of all I am not a lawyer. Follow this strategy at your own risk.

I have seen this strategy used successfully before fighting tickets. basically it goes like this...


You get to court, you are allowed to speak and you ask the judge...

"Do I have a right to a fair and impartial hearing in this court today?"


The judge should reply in the affirmative. Then you will ask...

"Your honor who is bringing fourth this complaint against me today?"

He will reply "The State of California."


You will then ask...

"Your honor who do you represent here today?"

He will reply:

"The State of California."


You then ask:

"Your honor, if the plaintiff here today is The State of California, and you represent The State of California, how is it possible for me to receive a fair hearing today in this court?"


He at this point has two choices...
1. He dismisses the case and leaves the court with his robes in a bunch.

2. He really hits you hard with everything he can think of such as maximum punishments for your ticket, contempt of court, etc. You might think this is a loss, but this is really a win. Why is that? Because if he continues with the charges after you have demonstrated the hearing is impartial you put the judge into the realm of PERSONAL CIVIL LIABILITY, meaning you can now sue the piss out of him and take HIS SHIT. They usually know this and use the threats as a form of intimidation. At this point you could remind him of his civil liability, or you could let him heap on the charges and then take all his crap later when you sue him. Obviously this option is only useful if you wish to actually sue him.

Again follow this strategy at your own risk. I am not a lawyer. I have however seen pissed off judges storm out of the court room after a scenario like this.

[420]

I would be curious ( and entertained ) to see someone try this in a california court.

well can you come with me and bring a camera?

If 50% (probably much less) of people followed suit with not complying; the enforcement would stop

[User705]

The above strategy is utter nonsense because that line of reasoning would apply to every single prosecution and that would mean no one gets prosecuted for anything.  Your best bet is to show up and the cop is not there.  Most judges in California overcrowded courts aren't judges but judge pro tem which is just a lawyer and you can say you don't want him.  If you get to an actual judge you can give him a story about why you aren't ready and ask for a new date.  So simple strategy show up and if cop is there and it's not an actual judge don't accept that.  If you get to a judge and cop is there try to get another date.  It may be possible to have your statutory time limit between arraignment and trial date lapse this way as well so it will eventually just get dismissed even if cop does show up. 

[420]

The above strategy is utter nonsense because that line of reasoning would apply to every single prosecution and that would mean no one gets prosecuted for anything.  Your best bet is to show up and the cop is not there.  Most judges in California overcrowded courts aren't judges but judge pro tem which is just a lawyer and you can say you don't want him.  If you get to an actual judge you can give him a story about why you aren't ready and ask for a new date.  So simple strategy show up and if cop is there and it's not an actual judge don't accept that.  If you get to a judge and cop is there try to get another date.  It may be possible to have your statutory time limit between arraignment and trial date lapse this way as well so it will eventually just get dismissed even if cop does show up. 

how do you tell if it is a judge pro tem?

[2dogs]

Have you ever wondered what would happen if you didn't pay traffic tickets?

I'm in California and I have two tickets, and I'm tired of the fascist extortionist state.

Come on, we all know it is about the revenue.

Kudos to the OP on trying wake the peeps up and trying to get them to fight back.

The only way to stop the madness is to starve the beast.

.gov cannot run without the revenue (taxes, tickets, licenses fees, etc.)

At least at the local level.

Perhaps the fed can, cause all they have to do is print more $$$.

Back to the original topic, if you can  - spring for an attorney, it levels the playing field.

[User705]

The above strategy is utter nonsense because that line of reasoning would apply to every single prosecution and that would mean no one gets prosecuted for anything.  Your best bet is to show up and the cop is not there.  Most judges in California overcrowded courts aren't judges but judge pro tem which is just a lawyer and you can say you don't want him.  If you get to an actual judge you can give him a story about why you aren't ready and ask for a new date.  So simple strategy show up and if cop is there and it's not an actual judge don't accept that.  If you get to a judge and cop is there try to get another date.  It may be possible to have your statutory time limit between arraignment and trial date lapse this way as well so it will eventually just get dismissed even if cop does show up. 

how do you tell if it is a judge pro tem?

They make you sign a form that you are ok with not having a real judge hear your case.  What are your charges?  I can try to give you some pointers on different defenses if you are going the self representation route.

[User705]

Starving the beast is a good strategy.  Use up as much resources as you can and use the systems overcapacity to your advantage.   

[420]

Starving the beast is a good strategy.  Use up as much resources as you can and use the systems overcapacity to your advantage.   

That's my strategy. They'll spend thousands on trying to get one thousand out of me; hot stupid are they

this is interesting:

http://neomoney.net/?p=259

if a story like that spreads the locals should be outraged. that money could be put to MUCH better use

[sublime5447]

I got a seat belt ticket a few years back and forgot all about it. A couple months later an officer came by my house and left a card.

I was like shit I missed my court date. I need to fix this, so I gave him a call. Said man I messed up and want to fix this. What do I need to do? He says oh no big deal just come on down here. I asked do I need to bring anything and he say just yourself. I said bullshit and stopped at the atm and withdrew 250 usd. When I got down there they immediately arrested me, booked me , took my bio metrics then set my bond at 400 usd secured bond. Had to spend most of the day in jail and call my dad to come and bring me some cash

Just 3 days ago I went to court over a fishing licence ticket. I tool the officer when he gave me the ticket that he was stealing from me and my family, called him a thief at which point he asked why I dint have a licence and I told him that i didnt need a licence to fish that it wasnt him or the state of north carolina that gave me the right to fish. I told him I was born with right. He did not like it. So when I went to court he showed up and told the judge I gave him a hard time. Without letting me say one word she tacked on another 250 usd to the fine for a total of 430 usd.

I have 2 felony convictions have spent 6 years on probation, 5 months in prison, and given the state over 100k  take it from someone who knows. If you stir up shit you are the one that is gonna be left stinking

Just pay the god damn fine and keep working to defund the state with bitcoin  

[User705]

That's just you being dumb.  Cops will lie to you.  If you have a warrant out why go to the cops and think it will be cool.  Also if you are going to mouth off to a cop make sure you are recording it so you can prove in court exactly what you said.  Just use the systems rules to your advantage.  While maybe morally and ethically you have every right to fish that doesn't change the actual reality.

[420]

That's just you being dumb.  Cops will lie to you.  If you have a warrant out why go to the cops and think it will be cool.  Also if you are going to mouth off to a cop make sure you are recording it so you can prove in court exactly what you said.  Just use the systems rules to your advantage.  While maybe morally and ethically you have every right to fish that doesn't change the actual reality.

ignoring the cop might be the most worthwhile; force them to arrest you or leave you alone; take the pick; if they arrest they risk arresting someone that does have a license;
 i dont think cops love confrontation either.

[sublime5447]

Let me know how those tactics work out for you two  

They have all the power and dont mind using it

When ever you are bent over spreading you ass checks apart so they can look inside your asshole. Think of me 

you are fleas on the nuts of the state

[420]

Let me know how those tactics work out for you two 

They have all the power and dont mind using it

what if I send the payment with a note: "Here's your extortion money"

[sublime5447]

Let me know how those tactics work out for you two 

They have all the power and dont mind using it

what if I send the payment with a note: "Here's your extortion money"

This is a good course of action. Makes you feel better and they get what they were always after..YOUR MONEY

[TheButterZone]

Let me know how those tactics work out for you two 

They have all the power and dont mind using it

what if I send the payment with a note: "Here's your extortion money"

"Cashing this check is a sworn admission that you have committed the crime of extortion."

[420]

Let me know how those tactics work out for you two 

They have all the power and dont mind using it

what if I send the payment with a note: "Here's your extortion money"

"Cashing this check is a sworn admission that you have committed the crime of extortion."

Write that on the check or on the accompanying letter?

starting to sound good.

[TheButterZone]

Let me know how those tactics work out for you two  

They have all the power and dont mind using it

what if I send the payment with a note: "Here's your extortion money"

"Cashing this check is a sworn admission that you have committed the crime of extortion."

Write that on the check or on the accompanying letter?

starting to sound good.

On the check, otherwise they can claim they "lost" the letter. If you have/get software that lets you print custom checks, make that the watermark. LOL