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Author Topic: Why is this forum considered terrible by our development overlords?  (Read 5101 times)
RodeoX
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July 19, 2011, 04:30:58 PM
 #21

Do we really want this forum to be the first impression of bitcoin? It is not what it used to be. Atlas, you will certainly remember when the threads were on topic and well written. Now one has to sift through countless silly topics to find serious thought.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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July 19, 2011, 04:58:23 PM
 #22

The ultraright-wing, libertarian, anarchist conspiracy theorists are the only ones interested in that kind of stuff, so I'd say direct your focus at them to see bitcoin grow in strength (you'll need it to withstand the attacks from its most ferocious competitors). Does it make sense?

There are plenty of normal people interested in and curious about Bitcoin.  They go looking for more information, end up here, and start to have second thoughts because of the political kookery and general idiocy that they find here.

There's no reason that the Bitcoin project should have an official libertarian/anarchist/conspiracy theorist/right-winger forum.  If you want to promote Bitcoin to those groups, do it on their forums.

Interest/curiosity does not imply approval/acceptance.

In marketing, it's all about positioning. You can't go after different market segments all at once, because to do so would require different value propositions of the same or maybe even different versions of bitcoin (or even a completely different currency).

Hence, in its current raw form, bitcoin has a much better chance of being successfully positioned for "libertarian/anarchist/conspiracy theorist/right-winger" crowds that may not be as "normal" as the general public, but nonetheless represent its best first-time customers, whose approval/acceptance of bitcoin as a medium of exchange will drive the creation of bitcoin economy. And once bitcoin has an economy to call "Home", it will be possible to position it for the general public's approval/acceptance.

Now, what everyone (starting with the bitcoin developers) needs to worry about is exchanges like Mt.Gox properly reporting their customers' profits to the authorities, because any foolishness in that aspect could leave bitcoin without any customers.


And don't forget the most effective/realistic approach: spend bitcoin to save/grow bitcoin. Basically, pay someone (e.g. bitcoin fans, etc) to come up with a better forum (in terms of usability/accessibility/whatever) or something completely new.

Don't need money, just need more participants.

On the other hand, if I could pay to have forum.bitcoin.org shut down right now, I'd do it.

I wasn't talking about paying in $ or other fiat currencies. I was talking about paying in bitcoins only... It is a currency, right?

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
BTConomist
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July 19, 2011, 05:13:29 PM
 #23

Now one has to sift through countless silly topics to find serious thought.

Is it because those whose thoughts had mattered suddenly decided not to engage the new comers for the sake of not having to repeat themselves? Start engaging the new comers, instead of referring to them as kids/trolls, and the problems will go away.

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
onesalt
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July 19, 2011, 05:22:24 PM
 #24

The ultraright-wing, libertarian, anarchist conspiracy theorists are the only ones interested in that kind of stuff, so I'd say direct your focus at them to see bitcoin grow in strength (you'll need it to withstand the attacks from its most ferocious competitors). Does it make sense?

There are plenty of normal people interested in and curious about Bitcoin.  They go looking for more information, end up here, and start to have second thoughts because of the political kookery and general idiocy that they find here.

There's no reason that the Bitcoin project should have an official libertarian/anarchist/conspiracy theorist/right-winger forum.  If you want to promote Bitcoin to those groups, do it on their forums.

And don't forget the most effective/realistic approach: spend bitcoin to save/grow bitcoin. Basically, pay someone (e.g. bitcoin fans, etc) to come up with a better forum (in terms of usability/accessibility/whatever) or something completely new.

Don't need money, just need more participants.

On the other hand, if I could pay to have forum.bitcoin.org shut down right now, I'd do it.

Yeah, I'm seriously regretting trying to post here now, you post something that doesn't fit with someone elses worldview and they start a massive fucking witchhunt for "trolls" and label you as one. See this thread for a pretty good indication. I post a thread pointing out that people are using viruses to build botnets solely to mine bitcoins, which is very quickly going to get it banned by governments and suchlike, and people just label you as a troll despite evidence from these very forums.
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July 19, 2011, 05:39:05 PM
 #25

Yeah, I'm seriously regretting trying to post here now, you post something that doesn't fit with someone elses worldview and they start a massive fucking witchhunt for "trolls" and label you as one. See this thread for a pretty good indication. I post a thread pointing out that people are using viruses to build botnets solely to mine bitcoins, which is very quickly going to get it banned by governments and suchlike, and people just label you as a troll despite evidence from these very forums.

Oh right, did I mention the groupthink?  That's another reason why this forum is terrible.
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July 19, 2011, 05:54:38 PM
 #26

Yeah, I'm seriously regretting trying to post here now, you post something that doesn't fit with someone elses worldview and they start a massive fucking witchhunt for "trolls" and label you as one. See this thread for a pretty good indication. I post a thread pointing out that people are using viruses to build botnets solely to mine bitcoins, which is very quickly going to get it banned by governments and suchlike, and people just label you as a troll despite evidence from these very forums.

Oh right, did I mention the groupthink?  That's another reason why this forum is terrible.

Perhaps this could be that reason to come up with something original, something that could leave even Quora (another rapidly-growing groupthink site) in the dust. This could also be an opportunity for the miners to seed the initially created bitcoins to those who choose to put their skills to the test. Think about it, what would bitcoin's value be if it was used to pay for the creation of something like Quora, Facebook, and the likes? This is how you build bitcoin's value up... not through marketing gimmicks.

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
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July 19, 2011, 06:01:36 PM
 #27

Perhaps this could be that reason to come up with something original, something that could leave even Quora (another rapidly-growing groupthink site) in the dust.

Uh, you should probably read about what "groupthink" actually means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
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July 19, 2011, 06:25:35 PM
 #28

Perhaps this could be that reason to come up with something original, something that could leave even Quora (another rapidly-growing groupthink site) in the dust.

Uh, you should probably read about what "groupthink" actually means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

What do you think I meant? Seriously, stop and think for a minute or two before replying with statements like that.

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
onesalt
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July 19, 2011, 06:44:25 PM
 #29

They have disassociated us with the front page. The obvious question is why?

We are who we are: the main users of the Bitcoin software and, frankly, libertarian views, excessive speculation and such comes with it.

Why resent nature?

Bitcoin isn't necessarily limited to those who hold libertarian views. I think that many of the non-forum users hold a variety of views. Personally I'm pretty far to the left, in the the socialist area. The appeal of the currency being anonymous holds more interest to me than the fact that it is decentralized. But by having these forums officially (through a subdomain of the project) affiliated with the project makes users who fail to hold the same views as the forums majority feel marginalized and unwanted. I am not against the existence of a forum for the discussion of politics related to bitcoin; I simply do not believe that it belongs here. This forum should be moved offsite, not linked to by the bitcoin project site, and be replaced by a forum dedicated solely to the help of users/development of bitcoin-related projects. In its current form, this forum represents the bitcoin community poorly.

Yeah pretty much, I like bitcoin because It's anonymous and anyone with a computer and internet connection can use it, not because I want to hoard them like gold or because I hate the government or because I hate fiat money, or because I believe a man is worth the sole sum of his monetary possesions, and being told that my opinions are invalid simply because I don't agree with those views, rather than through critical analysis, is just fucking terrible
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July 19, 2011, 06:47:22 PM
 #30

I came here to learn more about bitcoin and I got tons of great help.

I am saddend to see all the scammers and political chicken littles.

It seems a bit close to absurd that this is not considered the official bitcoin forum with an aditional link to search for others, but I'm still a newbee and won't count for a long time, if ever.

Thanks to all who have helped me here. I hope to pass some of that along once in a while.

DAVe

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
wumpus
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July 19, 2011, 06:54:53 PM
 #31

If there ever again will be an official forum, it will only be about the software and tech support/development. No political or economical discussion at all. It's very telling that even this thread turns into mudslinging.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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July 19, 2011, 07:09:14 PM
 #32

This forum is full of low-value noise, and things that are either NSFW or blatantly illegal.

Most businesses and most citizens are tax-paying and law-abiding, and that is the target audience for achieving bitcoin acceptance as a global currency.  It is rather difficult to convince new merchants to accept bitcoins, if the forums are their primary contact point with the bitcoin community.

Bitcoin is an ideology-neutral currency; we're not here to convert the world to libertarianism or crypto-anarchism.  We're here to make the first global, decentralized currency successful.


Jeff Garzik, bitcoin core dev team and BitPay engineer; opinions are my own, not my employer.
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July 19, 2011, 07:12:10 PM
 #33

and be replaced by a forum dedicated solely to the help of users/development of bitcoin-related projects.

We're trying to launch such a site right now.  Please join up to help it go faster: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/30763/bitcoin-crypto-currency
RodeoX
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July 19, 2011, 08:25:01 PM
 #34

Now one has to sift through countless silly topics to find serious thought.

Is it because those whose thoughts had mattered suddenly decided not to engage the new comers for the sake of not having to repeat themselves? Start engaging the new comers, instead of referring to them as kids/trolls, and the problems will go away.
We are on the same page about this. I do spend a little time in the new user area of the forum whenever i visit. It is critical IMO to help new users and not just make them feel dumb. But some users, new and old, are dumb. Posting sophomoric rants or spamming the forums in a childlike attempt to move the market.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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July 19, 2011, 08:32:44 PM
 #35

If there ever again will be an official forum, it will only be about the software and tech support/development. No political or economical discussion at all. It's very telling that even this thread turns into mudslinging.


Amen to that. Some days I like playing in the mud, but it has no place as the "official forum" for an open-source project. It's hard to even have a discussion about the technical aspects here, much less the overall community vibe.

But this argument was made over and over and over again by the posters in the meta thread about the politics forum and nothing has happened yet. Have not heard of this bitcointalk domain news.
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July 19, 2011, 08:43:50 PM
 #36

This forum is full of low-value noise, and things that are either NSFW or blatantly illegal.

Most businesses and most citizens are tax-paying and law-abiding, and that is the target audience for achieving bitcoin acceptance as a global currency.  It is rather difficult to convince new merchants to accept bitcoins, if the forums are their primary contact point with the bitcoin community.

Bitcoin is an ideology-neutral currency; we're not here to convert the world to libertarianism or crypto-anarchism.  We're here to make the first global, decentralized currency successful.



+1
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July 19, 2011, 10:06:27 PM
 #37

Bitcoin is an ideology-neutral currency; we're not here to convert the world to libertarianism or crypto-anarchism.  We're here to make the first global, decentralized currency successful.
This is an oxymoron. The last line is a very libertarian goal. If Bitcoin becomes successful, down goes the tyranny on money. If nobody can control the wealth, very little can be controlled.
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July 19, 2011, 10:15:06 PM
 #38


Bitcoin is an ideology-neutral currency; we're not here to convert the world to libertarianism or crypto-anarchism.  We're here to make the first global, decentralized currency successful.

+1

I disagree. Technology is not neutral. Example: atomic bombs give nation-states huge power, not so much individuals. No longer is the political consequence the conquest of a nation, but the annihilation of the world.

Bitcoin will have economic and political consequences, for better or for worse. That being said, spreading bitcoin is in libertarians' interest. What they want is not societies that agree with their views, but freedom.

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July 19, 2011, 10:21:26 PM
 #39

nobody can control the wealth, very little can be controlled.

Somebody can control the wealth, and that is individuals who can secure their money from thieves and bandits.

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July 19, 2011, 10:28:36 PM
 #40

Ugh and just like that a thread about why this forum is regarded as terrible turns into a case study on the subject.
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