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Author Topic: Why is this forum considered terrible by our development overlords?  (Read 5108 times)
Raoul Duke
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July 20, 2011, 10:35:54 AM
 #61

THIS FORUM NEEDS SOME REAL MODERATORS AND ADMINISTRATION!

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Chris Acheson
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July 20, 2011, 03:00:05 PM
 #62

I see the forum as existing for its own sake.
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You are not "locked in" unless you incorrectly view this forum as an "official arm of the project".

Then it doesn't belong on bitcoin.org.

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It's probably already settled that forum.bitcoin.org will move to bitcointalk.org, but I'll post my argument against the move anyway. Bitcoin.org has no claim to being "official" other than it being the only Bitcoin domain that Satoshi ever owned.

bitcoin.org isn't official in the sense that someone decreed it, but it is the de-facto face of the project.  It's where everyone goes when they first hear about Bitcoin and want to know more.  This won't always be the case (remember bittorrent.com?), but for now it's the reality that we have to deal with.

On the other hand, if you feel that bitcoin.org is so insignificant, why are you so concerned that this forum remain on it?
BTConomist
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July 20, 2011, 03:57:18 PM
 #63

Let’s forger about the physical world for a moment, and how it will be awesome to shop/party/gamble in that world with bitcoin. Instead, let’s take a good look around and recognize that internet is this new digital world, with a multitude of valuable things to offer, but without the official currency to assign and track the value that went into producing and distributing/marketing all of those things. Now, this is bitcoin’s real opportunity: to become the internet’s official currency. Let’s not waste it on a wild-goose chase.

From my perspective as a marketing/economics geek, bitcoin doesn’t yet need any particular image to maintain in the physical world; what it needs is to be viewed/accepted as a currency of the digital world that is full of open-source projects, freelancers, cypherpunks, hacktivists, gamblers, trolls, porn, you name it. If bitcoin cannot make it in its own world, what makes you think that it can make it in the physical world where it has to compete with well-rooted fiat currencies? USD became an accepted currency around the world because it had the backing of its home economy. Let's give bitcoin its own economy first, and everything else will follow.

Keeping that in mind, whatever you see happening in this forum today is nothing more but a reflection of what’s happening all over the internet, and what also happens when a new nation/community is being born/formed. Trying to escape all of that is like trying to give up on the future potential of internet. My vote is to make this forum the go-to place for ALL bitcoiners.

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
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July 22, 2011, 06:28:53 AM
 #64

My vote is to make this forum the go-to place for ALL bitcoiners.
Bad bad idea, even ignoring all the previous arguments: Single point of failure

Also you contradict yourself! A central go-to-place for bitcoiners is pointless if you say the domain of bitcoin is the entire internet (which is true). Bitcoin has outgrown this forum in every possible way.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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July 22, 2011, 08:51:07 AM
 #65

My vote is to make this forum the go-to place for ALL bitcoiners.
Bad bad idea, even ignoring all the previous arguments: Single point of failure

Also you contradict yourself! A central go-to-place for bitcoiners is pointless if you say the domain of bitcoin is the entire internet (which is true). Bitcoin has outgrown this forum in every possible way.

Please understand that I'm in no way trying to imply that the forum's current format/version can successfully serve the growing needs of bitcoin community. I simply do not agree with the decision to take all bitcoin-related discussions outside the bitcoin.org domain in order to dissociate bitcoin from conversations that are deemed inappropriate for the general public or physical-world merchants.

I believe that the focus should be on redirecting, not escaping those types of conversations, as their occurrence is an indication that bitcoin does not yet have a solid value proposition. Decentralizing all communication may hinder bitcoin's growth potential.

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
kiba
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July 22, 2011, 01:06:48 PM
 #66


bitcoin.org isn't official in the sense that someone decreed it, but it is the de-facto face of the project.  It's where everyone goes when they first hear about Bitcoin and want to know more.  This won't always be the case (remember bittorrent.com?), but for now it's the reality that we have to deal with.

On the other hand, if you feel that bitcoin.org is so insignificant, why are you so concerned that this forum remain on it?

Trying to place Cypherpunkers next to the merchant community jgarizik wants to cater to is a bad idea.

Though, it would be nice to have one coherent community, but that doesn't seem to be possible.

Chris Acheson
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July 22, 2011, 04:42:20 PM
 #67

Trying to place Cypherpunkers next to the merchant community jgarizik wants to cater to is a bad idea.

Though, it would be nice to have one coherent community, but that doesn't seem to be possible.

It would work if all the cypherpunks had enough tact not to discuss "bringing the revolution" around the merchants.  Unfortunately, many of them don't.

A combined community could be done correctly, but would require proper moderation and a "no politics" policy.  The cypherpunks have to understand that they're welcome to discuss the technology, ways to enhance privacy, etc, but political discussion belongs elsewhere.  That's not going to happen with our existing forum denizens, staff, and software.
pekv2
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August 01, 2011, 05:56:46 AM
 #68

It's probably already settled that forum.bitcoin.org will move to bitcointalk.org

With everything happening, I thought forum.bitcoin got hijacked. I did a search here on bitcointalk before logging in to make sure, and seems like it was a legit change. First thing I noticed was bitcointalk, I was like wth... M my word won't help but I do prefer "forum" than "talk". My favicons for the forums are blank and white!
Serith
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August 01, 2011, 08:05:26 AM
 #69

It's probably already settled that forum.bitcoin.org will move to bitcointalk.org

With everything happening, I thought forum.bitcoin got hijacked. I did a search here on bitcointalk before logging in to make sure, and seems like it was a legit change. First thing I noticed was bitcointalk, I was like wth... M my word won't help but I do prefer "forum" than "talk". My favicons for the forums are blank and white!

Same here, stumbled upon this discussion first  Bitcoin-development: The forums...


Most people in this thread talks about how making distance between this forum and developers would help to improve public opinion about bitcoin, but i would like to point that there is a risk for development team to loose it's members because of lack of interest. After all, why would highly qualified engineers work for free. I agree that this forum is not something that most developers would enjoin to read and participate, but it's connections to people from outside that brings reason to open source development process.


There is a fundamental disagreement about what the purpose of the forum should be. Jgarzik and others want the forum to simply support the "official project". They would, I'd guess, be irritated by any real "community" on the forum.

I see the forum as existing for its own sake. People should come here to participate in the community. It is not my intention to promote (or discourage) coming here just to solve a problem or work on projects.

If you don't like participating in forum communities, or you are annoyed by some of the viewpoints expressed here, then you can go to some other forum/mailing list/newsgroup. You are not "locked in" unless you incorrectly view this forum as an "official arm of the project".

It's probably already settled that forum.bitcoin.org will move to bitcointalk.org, but I'll post my argument against the move anyway. Bitcoin.org has no claim to being "official" other than it being the only Bitcoin domain that Satoshi ever owned. The client doesn't link to bitcoin.org anywhere, and no resources are actually stored at bitcoin.org. It's not even the first Bitcoin forum: the sourceforge.net forum used to be used by Satoshi. Therefore, I see no reason why the developers should take bitcoin.org from the community that has been located here for over a year. The main bitcoin.org page can be treated like a "fan site", or it can have its forum links removed, or it can disappear entirely for all I care.

There exists an unrelated problem with post quality. I've been thinking recently that this is mostly a categorization problem: some people like jokes/chaos, and others like very high-quality posts. So it might be a good idea to create a more highly-moderated forum section. Then we'll have three quality grades: "newbies", the rest of the forum, and "serious discussion". I'm not sure whether the highly-moderated section(s) should be subforums of certain categories that already exist, or a top-level section with possible subcategories.

I agree with theymos, that there should be more serious bitcoin forum. Possible structure is to have smaller, invite only version of this forum and use bitcointalk.org as sandbox to select members who could bring useful opinions.
LokeRundt
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August 04, 2011, 12:52:24 PM
 #70

So. . .what about an intro in the forum teaching people how to use ad-block and or user blocks?  Help train individuals in moderating themselves.

That would be good for the crazy anti-statists in the group, as well as the mainstream investors/business folk that may be coming in

Hippy Anarchy
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DiamondPlus
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August 18, 2011, 01:07:24 AM
 #71

It's not just the ideology which is a deterrent, it's also the "fuck you, got mine" attitude which characterises so many threads dealing with BTC-related issues.  Deleted your wallet?  You're not l33t enough to be trusted with the protocol.  Had your account hacked?  You should have used better passwords.  Unable to access your money?  You should have picked a different exchange.

You're not going to get merchants flocking to add BTC as a payment method while such attitudes are common and highly visible.  Merchants want to know that if they have a problem with using BTC, support will be available at a similar level to which it's currently offered by their existing payment platforms and this forum does nothing to create the impression that it will be.

-DiamondPlus
ByteCoin
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August 23, 2011, 11:34:18 PM
 #72

So it might be a good idea to create a more highly-moderated forum section. Then we'll have three quality grades: "newbies", the rest of the forum, and "serious discussion". I'm not sure whether the highly-moderated section(s) should be subforums of certain categories that already exist, or a top-level section with possible subcategories.

I've only just seen this. It sounds similar in goals to this.

Is there any way of turning my "Mee too!" into something that will bring this much-desired future closer to reality?

ByteCoin
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