Introducing Hive, a beautiful new wallet for Mac OS X

[gweedo]

How can you not have enough time or money to work on creating a native iOS app? This is the defining point in your company's history, and the entire reason SeedCoin gave you ~300BTC a few months ago.

You're betraying your users and investors by failing to meet the market's expectations.

Hi there,

First of all, we received 150 BTC from Seedcoin, most of which was delivered long before Apple made their apparent "reversal" (which is still unclear as far as I'm concerned).

Second of all, you can fuck right off with that attitude. We are doing our best to make quality software for everyone. 100+ years of propaganda has blurred the line with respect to reasonable investor etiquette, but being rude doesn't fly with us. If you don't agree with some of our decisions, maybe try a more constructive approach. We are as open as it is possible to be.

First off 150 BTC for a nice looking wallet... I will say that you are very overvalued like so many bitcoin companies, and seedcoin is people that know nothing about investing in companies investing in a fund, to help startups. Now you see the problem with this right here.

Second and more importantly, I would never want to work with hive if you can't answer a person's question like a human. He asked a simple question, how do you see iOS fitting into you into your roadmap/ why are you completely ignoring that position?

Being in business is sometimes being the coolest head in the room, but when the leader starts jumping off the gun like that, then I would say the leader is not fit to lead a company. This is only going to get harder, and not easier. I have had to deal with investors that come at very hostile. They given you their money and they want to see it grow, and sometimes they think they know best. You need to as the leader of the company listen to them out, and calmly defuse the situation and explain why your path is correct one.

[NanoAkron]

Thank you gweedo. I was hoping calmer heads would prevail, but instead we get another angry attack.

Jsuder - my 2BTC does not give me 50% of Hive. But our collective 150BTC through seed coin SURE AS FUCK does. Get off your high horse and realise that without investors like myself you'd be working on your next little project instead of having a shot at the big time.

A big time which you're choosing to ignore. Tell us, how do you plan to monetise anything you've produced so far and return any value to your investors?

I stand by my original assessment that a native iPhone app is your only way to monetise what you've produced, and ignoring that is to betray your investors.

Now let me think...do I want to use a product designed by petulant children who have no business plan?

[scribbles]

(even when someone deserves it).

I deserve to be told to fuck off because I'm questioning why they can't write a native iOS app?

Sorry NanoAkron, I definitely was NOT trying to imply you deserved that! I thought his comment was completely unprofessional and unwarranted.

I only mentioned the 'even when someone deserves it' because I've worked in business and know that even if someone deserves to be told to fuck off, the professional/respectable thing to do is keep calm and give a measured response. Hive failed in this respect.

[Matt_Innes]

I'll just jump in at this point and say:

We are going to release an iOS version of Hive Web soon. It is already in testing and runs beautifully. Regardless of the exact way it has been coded, it runs fast, takes advantage of native hardware & users will love it. It will be the best simple crypto wallet available on iOS, bar none.

While we'd love to be able to do everything our users (and investors) would like, the reality is, we are resource constrained, and do have to focus our efforts in order to be able to make a great product. You'll notice the Waggle feature in Hive Web. Seems like a small thing, but it's the first step in bringing a lot of great usability to Hive from here on out, and it took a lot of effort to get it into the app. Likewise the first steps to full multi-token support.

We think we can do some pretty amazing things with Hive, now and in the future, and we have a good plan to get there. Sorry if Wendell got a bit heated there. Of course we need and appreciate everyone's support, whether as a user or as an investor, no matter what amount that financially represents. So thanks for investing in Hive, whether it's your time as a user or your money as an investor.  We're pretty confident that users & investors alike will be pretty happy with what we release for iOS, so please wait a little bit & we'll get it out to you all soon.

[wendell]

Jsuder - my 2BTC does not give me 50% of Hive. But our collective 150BTC through seed coin SURE AS FUCK does. Get off your high horse and realise that without investors like myself you'd be working on your next little project instead of having a shot at the big time. A big time which you're choosing to ignore. Tell us, how do you plan to monetise anything you've produced so far and return any value to your investors?

NanoAkron, you are truly an expert troll, but let me clarify things: Your investment gives you a percentage of dividends from Seedcoin's SF1, which has purchased not even close to 50% of Hive. If you've been led to believe otherwise, you'd better go read the prospectus again.

As for monetization, I will tell you what we've already said a few times in this very thread: We believe that we can monetize the app platform based on additional transaction fees (and we've recently had a few more ideas). All of this requires growth, so please do keep trolling! It just brings attention to our good work!

I stand by my original assessment that a native iPhone app is your only way to monetise what you've produced, and ignoring that is to betray your investors.

It's great that you have an opinion, but we won't be charging for our Cordova-wrapped iOS Wallet.

Now let me think...do I want to use a product designed by petulant children who have no business plan?

Sounds like it's definitely better that you don't.

First off 150 BTC for a nice looking wallet... I will say that you are very overvalued like so many bitcoin companies, and seedcoin is people that know nothing about investing in companies investing in a fund, to help startups. Now you see the problem with this right here.

Second and more importantly, I would never want to work with hive if you can't answer a person's question like a human. He asked a simple question, how do you see iOS fitting into you into your roadmap/ why are you completely ignoring that position?

Being in business is sometimes being the coolest head in the room, but when the leader starts jumping off the gun like that, then I would say the leader is not fit to lead a company. This is only going to get harder, and not easier. I have had to deal with investors that come at very hostile. They given you their money and they want to see it grow, and sometimes they think they know best. You need to as the leader of the company listen to them out, and calmly defuse the situation and explain why your path is correct one.

Hi Gweedo,

He didn't really ask a question. He made various inaccurate accusations, misrepresented facts and generally behaved like a tool. He deserved exactly what he got. Just because someone has (ostensibly) thrown a little money our way doesn't give them the right to be rude with impunity. We do this as a service to the community first and foremost, and would rather clean toilets than pander to such "investors".

[nahtnam]

Quick question. Do you guys have a future plan of making money? If so, how?

[hivewallet]

Quick question. Do you guys have a future plan of making money? If so, how?

As Wendell said above, we think we can monetize based on additional transaction fees levied within the context of the app platform/app store. This requires some scale, so it will take time.

[NanoAkron]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Asking why you're not spending time to write a native app, and getting angry when you can't even be civil to one of your investors is not trolling.

[wendell]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Asking why you're not spending time to write a native app, and getting angry when you can't even be civil to one of your investors is not trolling.

Well NanoAkron, that sounds exactly right.

Try for a moment to understand: you literally popped up out of nowhere not only being extremely rude, but telling us our business while bandying about the claim that you are an SF1 investor... All the while getting most of the facts about SF1's investment wrong. It's highly fishy to me, and unfortunately one of the disadvantages of SF1 is that I have no way to verify who you say you are (not that it would really have changed my attitude about your approach).

As for the answer to your question, it has largely been given by jsuder already: We spent time addressing the iOS problem in a different way, having begun that work long before there was any sign of Apple changing their policy. Now that they may have changed course, our direction is to Cordova-wrap the fruit of the last 4 months' labor -- Hive Web -- for App Store consumption. That ongoing work can be found here:

https://github.com/hivewallet/hive-ios

There are no plans for a native app at this time.

If you have any further questions or thoughts -- that goes for you NanoAkron, or anyone else, truly -- email me directly at w@hivewallet.com . I'm fully on for debate, discussions, or even flat-out arguments about what we are doing. But I won't tolerate the presumptive money-over-decency approach for even one second. The people who make Hive happen all work very hard, and given their considerable talents certainly make far less money for far greater risk than they would elsewhere.

Are we clear on that? If yes then let me be the first to extend an olive branch and apologize for flying off the handle at you.

[bkminer]

As an app developer myself I don't see what is wrong with a Cordova HTML app as a Bitcoin wallet leveraging on work done when a native app might have been rejected.

As far as Apple's position, from my reading and discussing with fellow developers, it has always been the burden of the app publisher to verify that the app meets all legal requirements for each market that app is released in.  A general wallet app released to all markets would run afoul in more than one country.  The wallets that have been recently accepted have apparently taken this in to account and are now inline with that requirement.

I also think the work I see in the Hive wallet is very good... my only issue is with Java, and you've stated you want to move away from it anyway so that's all good.

Just my 2-cents, YMMV...

[wendell]

I also think the work I see in the Hive wallet is very good... my only issue is with Java, and you've stated you want to move away from it anyway so that's all good.

For OS X, indeed. And for the record, there is no Java in Hive Web.

[dabura667]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Asking why you're not spending time to write a native app, and getting angry when you can't even be civil to one of your investors is not trolling.

About your investment.

Pics or it didn't happen. Where's your proof?

[wendell]

About your investment.

Pics or it didn't happen. Where's your proof?

The dramatic arc of this thread was interesting, but if you don't mind, let's let sleeping dogs lie.

[NanoAkron]

About your investment.

Pics or it didn't happen. Where's your proof?

Really? Of all the far-fetched claims in the bitcoin world, your main contention is that I didn't really put 2 BTC into SF1? Why the hell would I lie about that? I lost far more than that in NeoBee.

I just want to see the most likely success from SF1 actually succeed.

[hivewallet]

Really? Of all the far-fetched claims in the bitcoin world, your main contention is that I didn't really put 2 BTC into SF1? Why the hell would I lie about that? I lost far more than that in NeoBee.

I just want to see the most likely success from SF1 actually succeed.

NanoAkron, let's please drop this topic. If you want to help us succeed, please spread the word about our work.

[nahtnam]

Are you guys planning to make a chrome app for hivejs? By a chrome app, I mean a desktop one using chromes WebKit (if you don't know what I mean, check authy's chrome app).

Also, would it be possible for hive JS to have offline transaction on mobile?

[jsuder]

Are you guys planning to make a chrome app for hivejs? By a chrome app, I mean a desktop one using chromes WebKit (if you don't know what I mean, check authy's chrome app).

Also, would it be possible for hive JS to have offline transaction on mobile?

Oh wow, I didn't know that was possible, this looks interesting. Actually, I'm reading about building Chrome extensions at this very moment, but I was thinking about a classic Chrome extension with a popup, like e.g. Ghostery. Do you think an extension that launches from the dock is a better idea? Do you know if the process of building it is much different than a normal extension?

[nahtnam]

Are you guys planning to make a chrome app for hivejs? By a chrome app, I mean a desktop one using chromes WebKit (if you don't know what I mean, check authy's chrome app).

Also, would it be possible for hive JS to have offline transaction on mobile?

Oh wow, I didn't know that was possible, this looks interesting. Actually, I'm reading about building Chrome extensions at this very moment, but I was thinking about a classic Chrome extension with a popup, like e.g. Ghostery. Do you think an extension that launches from the dock is a better idea? Do you know if the process of building it is much different than a normal extension?

Personally, I think that an app that can be launched off of the dock (desktop packaged app) would be better than an extension.

It shouldn't be too hard to do. Here is a link to a lifehacker post that goes in detail. http://lifehacker.com/new-chrome-apps-run-on-your-desktop-offline-and-outsid-1258080268.

I'm not that skilled of a programmer, but if you want, you can PM me and we can work together.

[nahtnam]

Will hiveJS ever have something like a username and password, or will it always be the 12 word phrase and pin?

I like the PIN, but not the 12 word phrase.

[jsuder]

Will hiveJS ever have something like a username and password, or will it always be the 12 word phrase and pin?

I like the PIN, but not the 12 word phrase.

AFAIK there aren't plans for any user/pass kind of authentication. That would actually be a significantly less secure solution - if you could log in with a username/password to your wallet anywhere, that would mean we'd have to keep your master private key on our server, encrypted ony with that password. If something happens to our server... poof, all money gone from all wallets.

Right now we don't keep the private key on the server, it's only kept in the browser storage and (in the form of the passphrase) wherever you decide to write it down. The passphrase doesn't give access to the key that's stored somewhere else, the passphrase *is* the key. And it's implemented according to common BIP standards, so you should theoretically be able to use the same 12-word passphrase in other wallets (which obviously wouldn't work with a username/password pair).