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Author Topic: The Chili – 30+GH/s BFL based Bitcoin Miner Assembly  (Read 137886 times)
jelin1984
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October 08, 2013, 11:44:02 AM
 #81

Did mr teal start ship the boards or not yet?
mmmerlin
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October 08, 2013, 11:53:18 AM
 #82

Did mr teal start ship the boards or not yet?

As posted on the previous page, shipping was scheduled for the end of this week, but it may have slipped by a day or two, so a few boards will probably ship at the end of this week, but I imagine the bulk will be next week...
MrTeal (OP)
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October 08, 2013, 03:07:43 PM
 #83

Did mr teal start ship the boards or not yet?
No. The parts were all delivered to the assembly house yesterday, that doesn't mean that they shipped yesterday.
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October 09, 2013, 05:21:54 AM
 #84

Just a few quick updates as we wait for news from the assembly house.

We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue

I am going through all our customers and making sure shipping information is all good and I have all the information needed to send your miners off to you ASAP, and will have everything entered so labels can be printed ahead of time.

A lot of people have been asking me about backplates. Apparently GPU backplates are difficult to find, which is really unfortunate. I would have thought those ATI x-plates that held on the 5xxx series GPUs would be all over the place. There isn't a great solution to that, I'm afraid. Using a thermal pad means you need a good bit of force to compress it to get good performance, and you will bend the PCB if there isn't a backplate in place. Arctic cooling makes one that you could use that they sell through their website.
http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/spare-parts/536/eva-foam-und-gpu-back-plate.html#
If you are handy and have a drill (and/or hacksaw), the easiest and cheapest solution is to just buy some 2.5" wide (63.5mm) 1/8"-1/4" aluminum flat bar and drill 4 holes in it to pass the heatsink screws through. You can find it at a hardware store or online, the stuff is pretty cheap
https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1138&step=4&showunits=inches&id=997&top_cat=0
You could even do the same for an LGA1155 heatsink if you don't want to deal with the backplate that comes with your cooler, you would just need to use 3.5" flat bar.
I'm personally just going to use these guys as my backplate and drill holes in the correct place, but I have the tooling to do so. It's definitely more work.
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=0&y=0&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=VHS-45

I have had some people who are just getting their chips now approach me asking about when Batch 2 will start. Right now that's a hard question to answer. We're focused on getting the first ones out the door, and how quickly we can start another will depend on interest. One downside of using a large scale professional assembly house is that they are not set up to do batches of a couple dozen boards at a time. Luckily it appears though there might be a good bit of interest in batch 2, so if you are getting chips soon and are interested in having them mounted onto PCBs, please send me a PM or email at mrtealasic@gmail.com and I can start to get an idea of what's out there and start planning to get a slot book in the assembly house.
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October 09, 2013, 05:27:43 AM
 #85

Is this correct:

Cooler
-------
pad
-------
PCB + Chips
------
foam
-------
backplate


The backplate is threaded and screws come in from the cooler through the PCB and tighten into the backplate?

CanaryInTheMine
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October 09, 2013, 06:01:42 AM
 #86

If anyone is looking for chips (lots of them) I have a substantial amount arriving today: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236103.0
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October 09, 2013, 06:06:52 AM
 #87

There are also a bunch of questions about what thermal interface materials are acceptable and which ones aren't.

I first want to say that it's your unit, you are free to do with it what you'd like. Prior to shipment we are testing each unit long enough for it to reach thermal equilibrium for probably 10-30 minutes. The time is still up in the air depending on how efficient the test/programming techs and setup are. We're using some fancy carbon fiber pads and Arctic Cooling Mono Plus coolers if anyone's interested. They won't be sent if they don't function. After you get it, you can use peanut butter and hot fudge if you really want to. All we can do is provide suggestions.

TIM Tidbit #1: Your best interface is going to be using a grease like Arctic Silver. You'll get a much smaller gap between the die and the cooler, and performance will be much better than any other interface.

TIM Tidbit #2: The chips might not all be at the same height. In testing with thermal grease ChipGeek and I have both had single chips that sat appreciably lower than the others. In my case, it was enough to cause that one chip to be 20C higher that the others when voltage was applied but it wasn't hashing, so it was only consuming a watt or two. That chip still stayed about 20-25C hotter at full load, likely because the other chips were well cooled and it was able to dump most of its heat into the PCB copper layers. Still, it is not an ideal situation and if you had a couple chips that were low (or worse, two that were higher and prevented good contact on the other six) you might have serious problems. If you want to try thermal grease I can't stop you, but it might not work well and while we will attempt to throttle based on temperature if there is a really bad contact the ASIC could overheat.

TM Tidbit #3: Thermal interface pads are bad. Even the good ones are bad, but that's the hand we're dealt. The 0.5mm thick 17W/mK is a very good thermal pad, but it still has a thermal resistance of 0.4(°C*cm^2/W) at about 50PSI. Since the BFL ASIC die is ~8mmx8mm, that means that with good pressure the thermal resistance of each chip is about 0.63°C/W. If you're dissipating 10W per ASIC, you'll have a 6.3°C temperature rise just in the thermal pad. The 0.5mm thick 11W/mK Fujipoly stuff is around 0.9(°C*cm^2/W) at the same conditions, meaning a 1.4°C/W temperature rise. Start going to the 6W/mK and 3W/mK stuff, and you'll find you're dumping a LOT of heat into the board. Chip Geek had our test board with no asics hooked up to a large programmable dummy load and was pulling 100A from it, he said while it warmed above ambient it stayed quite cool to the touch. If I use a 3W/mK thermal pad and pull similar power from it, the power supply components and PCB can actually get painful to the touch without good airflow over the board. Good thermal pads are bad, but bad thermal pads are really bad. You can mitigate a lot by using more airflow (just look at all the little heatsinks on the BFL Singles and how much air over the board they push to keep things cool), but just using a really good thermal pad to start with is best.

TIM Tidbit #4: Thermal pads might be bad, but thermal adhesive tape is terrible. Please don't use it, you might as well just leave the heatsink off. It works in low power applications or where you have a lot of surface area, but not at these power densities. The 3M 8810 0.25mm thick tape you see mounted to the bottom of a lot of press-on heatsinks has a manufacturer rated thermal resistance of 0.90(°C*in^2/W), or 5.8(°C*cm^2/W). That's 6.5 times worse than the Fujipoly 11W/mK pad that's twice as thick. They don't even work nearly as well as a gap filler. Please please please don't use thermal tape.

Overall, you should just use a good thermal pad, and use a good backplate so you can tighten the heatsink without flexing the board too much. If the units coming out of the assembly house are good (and we're hoping they are) you might be able to get away with grease and it will work really good. If you get one that has a low chip and you use grease instead of a pad and blow it up, that's on you. If you use adhesive tape instead of a pad and blow it up, that's really all on you.
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October 09, 2013, 06:29:34 AM
 #88

Supplementary cooling - Depending on your interface, you can still get a bunch of heat going into these boards both from the mosfets and from the ASICs. If you don't have much airflow going over the boards themselves I'd recommend putting some press-on heatsinks like you can get for BGAs or RAM on the bottom side under the mosfets to keep them cool. They'll actually operate fine up to a junction temperature of 125C, but efficiency goes down.

Don't bother trying to put those little mosfet heatsinks on top of the FETs themselves. They're fiddly, annoying and don't do a whole lot. The TI NEXFET devices used are actually very well designed; all the transistors inside and the integrated driver have very good thermal paths to the big pad on the bottom which is connected to ground. Unlike a traditional synchronous buck design where the thermal pad of the top mosfet is connected to 12V and the thermal pad of the bottom one is connected to the one end of the inductor, you have a nice thermal path to the large ground area on the bottom side that makes it really easy to cool.
MrTeal (OP)
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October 09, 2013, 06:30:53 AM
 #89

Is this correct:

Cooler
-------
pad
-------
PCB + Chips
------
foam
-------
backplate


The backplate is threaded and screws come in from the cooler through the PCB and tighten into the backplate?

Close, but the backplate isn't threaded and the screws go through it and thread into the cooler itself.
Keefe
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October 09, 2013, 10:17:52 AM
Last edit: October 09, 2013, 10:44:05 AM by Keefe
 #90

I just ordered the 0.5mm 11W/mK Fujipoly from FrozenCPU, and the Hyper 212 EVO from BitcoinStore, but I guess I still need to find substitute hex standoffs and maybe screws. Will the Hyper 212 EVO work sufficiently with the included standoffs, short term? Or will I be unable to run the boards at all until I obtain shorter standoffs?

Will these male/female standoffs work well as a direct substitute of the ones that come with the Hyper212?
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/342/M2101-3005-AL-204111.pdf
If so, we could use the stock nuts and wouldn't need to buy screws.

mmmerlin
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October 09, 2013, 12:35:52 PM
 #91


We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue


Lol, you actually had me worried there for a minute!  Cheesy
daemonfox
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October 09, 2013, 01:09:32 PM
 #92


We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue


Lol, you actually had me worried there for a minute!  Cheesy

inorite... i read that and started the facepalm... but halfway to slapping myself I read it was just LEDs and chuckled... if that is the worst we have to expect... id still say this was a home run.

I do have to ask though... why is there not a standard "here is the most basic, easy to install cooling configuration with instructions and links ot purchase the pieces" already?

Also, given I have a 4 chip miner, and that we will not know if we have "unlevel" chip heights until I actually have this in hand, I will have to wait until the day it arrives to assess my options instead of being ahead of the game with items ready upon arrival.

I have quite a few fabrication options at my disposal so, I may be tapping into those to get something custom made.

If chip height is uniform, Arctic Silver is the best suggested medium correct? If they are not uniform, the suggestion is thick pads?

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oldbushie
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October 09, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
Last edit: October 10, 2013, 11:57:38 PM by oldbushie
 #93

I'm gonna need an idiot's guide here... my only experience with hardware is plug-and-play boards on a standard motherboard. Assuming ALL I have is a laptop to hook my miners to in terms of supplies, what on earth do I need to get? What do I even mount the boards on in addition to adding heatsinks etc? How do I connect them to a PSU and what do I need to look for in a PSU in terms of connections (I'm assuming modular at the very least, and decent wattage)? Do I need a case or can I just leave the boards hanging free in the wind? I'm not even sure what kinds of boards or cases are made for this kind of situation.

As for mounting heatsink/fan on the boards themselves, what kinds of screws? Which fan/heatsink combos come with a backplate that's compatible with these boards? What should I use to drill holes in a circuit board with so I don't damage the board? If thermal pads suck why are they the only solution that's acceptable for non-level chips?

In my case I have 4 boards incoming. I did get a few recommendations from MrTeal in PMs but there's a lot of missing info.

Edit: Ah, I misread the earlier post, it's the "custom backplate" that would need holes drilled in it, not the circuit board. Hopefully a more standard solution can be used though.

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October 09, 2013, 08:11:57 PM
 #94

I (probably like many other people) will detail my efforts to get the boards running in my environment. Maybe that will help some folks.
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October 09, 2013, 10:00:09 PM
 #95


We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue


Lol, you actually had me worried there for a minute!  Cheesy

inorite... i read that and started the facepalm... but halfway to slapping myself I read it was just LEDs and chuckled... if that is the worst we have to expect... id still say this was a home run.[/i]

I do have to ask though... why is there not a standard "here is the most basic, easy to install cooling configuration with instructions and links ot purchase the pieces" already?

Also, given I have a 4 chip miner, and that we will not know if we have "unlevel" chip heights until I actually have this in hand, I will have to wait until the day it arrives to assess my options instead of being ahead of the game with items ready upon arrival.

I have quite a few fabrication options at my disposal so, I may be tapping into those to get something custom made.

If chip height is uniform, Arctic Silver is the best suggested medium correct? If they are not uniform, the suggestion is thick pads?


From what I understand the board will be shipped with some documentation covering all aspects.
jelin1984
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October 09, 2013, 10:45:56 PM
 #96

Also mr teal
What is the watt per board and the hashing per board?
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October 10, 2013, 12:01:20 AM
 #97

i have chips that i purchased from Canary where can i send my chips and have them assembled on a board?


https://bitcoinfundingteam.com/ref/SatoshiTeam
turn 0.1 BTC to 80BTC week after week!!!
MrTeal (OP)
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October 10, 2013, 02:21:32 AM
 #98

Boards are coming off the SMT line

There won't be many done tonight, Chip Geek will be taking the first few off the line to test them and go over the program and test workflow. The real heavy lifting will be tomorrow.
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October 10, 2013, 02:24:20 AM
 #99

Looks great!  Well done guys!  What kind of pick and place equipment is being used to produce these?
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October 10, 2013, 03:52:42 AM
 #100

It is very exciting to see a board with chips!
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