KNC, 100% of their hashing is currently going into their own pocket.

[ASIC-K]

how is this guy even a moderator?!?

Maybe because... http://bitcoin.org/en/development

yup. that will do it! sigh....

I think he accepts your apology, You can probably get up off your knees and stop bowing before him also

i dont get it either.

[1714773174]

1714773174

[1714773174]

1714773174

[shapemaker]

how is this guy even a moderator?!?

Maybe because... http://bitcoin.org/en/development

yup. that will do it! sigh....

I think he accepts your apology, You can probably get up off your knees and stop bowing before him also

Sarcasm is strong in this one...

[600watt]

i recall sam and andreas saying during first "open day", that any testing of actual customers miners will be done straight towards the customers btc adress.


they did let ONE of the miners run. for some peanuts. and the moderator opens a thread yelling "100 % OF THEIR HASHING (power) ...OWN POCKET."

i am only here since march. so still not very experienced. and here i see a hero member, lots of gold wrapped under his name, even a moderator giving one of the best examples of FUD. especially when considering that the immoral tactic op is accusing knc has actually been used by competitors at large.
bfl pockets are deep. hard to imagine that "their" money reaches that far.

disclosure:
i have been slapped in my face by bfl. (no refund)
i have been burnt by avalon III group buy. (refunded)
i have been burnt by avalon chip sale. (sold)
i have several knc orders.

edit: typo, disclosure brackets

[gmaxwell]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

[RoadStress]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?

I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why didn't you blame Avalon's customers for funding a mining hardware company that mined in competition with their customers? You weren't harsh at all when there were multiple proofs that they mined a lot with the units before shipping.

[idee2013]

but this not only one miner http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/15p19K7psks9PP2faLhFRrn7ooyimGJaun

[RoadStress]

i recall sam and andreas saying during first "open day", that any testing of actual customers miners will be done straight towards the customers btc adress.


they did let ONE of the miners run. for some peanuts. and the moderator opens a thread yelling "100 % OF THEIR HASHING (power) ...OWN POCKET."

i am only here since march. so still not very experienced. and here i see a hero member, lots of gold wrapped under his name, even a moderator giving one of the best examples of FUD. especially when considering that the immoral tactic op is accusing knc has actually been used by competitors at large.
bfl pockets are deep. hard to imagine that "their" money reaches that far.

disclosure:
i have been slapped in my face by bfl. (no refund)
i have been burnt by avalon III group buy. (refunded)
i have been burnt by avalon chip sale. (sold)
i have several knc orders.

edit: typo, disclosure brackets

No offense, but gmaxwell isn't just a moderator. He is one of the main developers of bitcoin.

And that comes with the right of being impartial?

[Minor Miner]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?
I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why didn't you blame Avalon's customers for funding a mining hardware company that mined in competition with their customers? You weren't harsh at all when there were multiple proofs that they mined a lot with the units before shipping.

I would have to agree there.   And when many of us were calling out Zhang and Yifu for the scumbag thieves that they are, you actually started a thread seeing if you could gain acceptance for editing all the posts of the pissed off masses.   Personally, that really pissed me off since I was out 10s of thousands and there was TONS of evidence on what the scumbag was doing.    Weird you would pick KNC to all of a sudden be holier than thou about.

[Bitcoinorama]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

The miner that they showed yesterday and various iterations that have banked an entire 1BTC earlier.

Aside from that there is the FPGA revisions that utilised testnet.

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

EDIT: idee2013 that's not KnC. No idea.

[erk]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

The miner that they showed yesterday and various iterations that have banked an entire 1BTC earlier.

Aside from that there is the FPGA revisions that utilised testnet.

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

EDIT: idee2013 that's not KnC. No idea.

So what you are saying is the topic of this thread is a lie. I thought as much.

[RoadStress]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

The miner that they showed yesterday and various iterations that have banked an entire 1BTC earlier.

Aside from that there is the FPGA revisions that utilised testnet.

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

EDIT: idee2013 that's not KnC. No idea.

So what you are saying is the topic of this thread is a lie. I thought as much.

No. The topic of this thread is true and will remain true no matter what. Read it again. All of THEIR hashing is going into THEIR pockets I will call this phrasing fine art trolling because it spreads FUD where it shouldn't.

[ASIC-K]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

The miner that they showed yesterday and various iterations that have banked an entire 1BTC earlier.

Aside from that there is the FPGA revisions that utilised testnet.

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

EDIT: idee2013 that's not KnC. No idea.

So what you are saying is the topic of this thread is a lie. I thought as much.

+1

[Loredo]

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

One thing that's cool about this controversy is the rapid change in spirit of discourse on this forum.  One man challenges a claim he finds suspicious.  The other party immediately responds to the concern in a proactive manner.  

BTW, I assume that "when back in Stockholm" means you have left, presumably for London, to fly to ATL from LHR.  Smart, probably economic, move.  

Make sure they fly your butt at least in C-class (biz) if not F-class (we know what that class is).  You're an important man, now, and they need to keep you happy.  And once in ATL, remember this locale:  Buckhead.  Strange name, great nightlife.  Also Peachtree St., centered at North Avenue.  Close to GA Tech, with all the women that implies.

Have fun.  

EDIT: Oh, yeah; and one other.  Forgot for a moment you guys are big executives now.  The Vinings.  Home of one of America's great restaurants: Canoe, right on the bank of the Chattahoochee River.  Power dining.

[shapemaker]

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

I did? Really?  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

The miner that they showed yesterday and various iterations that have banked an entire 1BTC earlier.

Aside from that there is the FPGA revisions that utilised testnet.

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

EDIT: idee2013 that's not KnC. No idea.

So what you are saying is the topic of this thread is a lie. I thought as much.

No. The topic of this thread is true and will remain true no matter what. Read it again. All of THEIR hashing is going into THEIR pockets I will call this phrasing fine art trolling because it spreads FUD where it shouldn't.

Well, I guess moderating is like politics... you don't get there without learning to troll with the best. In this case, a fine example of trolling if I may say so, looks like our esteemed politicomoderator decided to flex his trolling muscles a bit. They're like finely toned muscles too, you need to keep them in condition

[itod]

Well, I guess moderating is like politics... you don't get there without learning to troll with the best. In this case, a fine example of trolling if I may say so, looks like our esteemed politicomoderator decided to flex his trolling muscles a bit. They're like finely toned muscles too, you need to keep them in condition

Yes, everyone who dares to say anything about KnC, even the moderator, is a low troll. Being happy about your KnC order is one thing, shilling hard for them is completely another. People should stop jumping over that line so easily, ask yourself is there some truth in gmaxwell's statement.

[gmaxwell]

Cool, but what do you want to see?

You appeared to be claiming that KNC was testing their operational asic devices on testnet. This claim appears to be false. Do I understand correctly that you mispoke and the device has not actually been tested on testnet and cannot be actually shown to have successfully produced a block?

Customers demand real world evidence.

Not being a KNC customer I can't speak for them, but I'd be really surprised if they demand their manufacturer mining coins and ultimately reducing the customer's own income, ... instead of, you know, shipping the products the customer ordered and paid for. I've certainly seen a lot more people asking for shipping information than for evidence of how much money KNC is making off the not yet shipping hardware.  After all, some account on eligius doesn't actually show that any KNC hardware is running at all. ... but a box in customers hands sure would!

If y'all are crazy enough to believe some random hashrate graph as proof of hardware, man, have I got a bridgeminer to sell you.

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why didn't you blame Avalon's customers for funding a mining hardware company that mined in competition with their customers? You weren't harsh at all when there were multiple proofs that they mined a lot with the units before shipping.

Uh. I direct your attention to the first post in this thread:

I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers.

AFAIK, at this point most of this sub-forum has sworn off doing business with Avalon in the future.

I comment generally pretty infrequently. Consider the responses here if you wonder why.  I said at the outfront that I was being a bit intentionally inflammatory about it, but I do think that its a sad state that we've created an environment where the community takes all the risk of the NRE in building a mining device and the end result is these consolidations which undermine the value of that investments. KNC is but one example of it— and not the worst, but with all the claims of how much integrity KNC has, perhaps its the best example that the community here tolerates the behavior rather than something exploitative. Take it for what you will.

Besides, everyone knows that I'm secretly YipYip and Crumbs.

[600watt]

the knc wars starts spreading/infecting to other threads. why is knc so polarizing ? because it is a threat ? to whom ?

some aspects of this bitcoin stuff is way beyond economics. it´s getting religious.

[Nemo1024]

The title of this thread is true for a certain value of truth. I.e.: 100%=1 unit.

Bitcoinorama, may I suggest Durrell Wildlife Conservation Trust as a charity. See the thread in my sig. I am trying to convince them that Bitcoin is the future. They also have corporate charity program, so KnC can be listed in their hall of fame. See also www.durrell.org

[gmaxwell]

the knc wars starts spreading/infecting to other threads. why is knc so polarizing ? because it is a threat ? to whom ?
some aspects of this bitcoin stuff is way beyond economics. it´s getting religious.

I'd certainly like to understand this better... though it's offtopic for the thread.  It's not unique to KNC, e.g. we saw it with BFL.  But I think we've mostly not seen it with hashfast or cointerra.  I've speculated before that some people are afraid of getting ripped off and have to aggressively back their own horse to justify themselves, but even that is incomprehensible to me. Then again, I don't really get team-sports fandom either.

... And I suppose some things are just unknowable.

The title of this thread is true for a certain value of truth. I.e.: 100%=1 unit.

Well, it's true until they actually get a box in someones hands. I was explicit about it and said it was a bit pedantic. Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button?

[As an aside: If you think a thread is dumb it's best to stop posting in it so that it can fall down the page!]

[shapemaker]

Well, I guess moderating is like politics... you don't get there without learning to troll with the best. In this case, a fine example of trolling if I may say so, looks like our esteemed politicomoderator decided to flex his trolling muscles a bit. They're like finely toned muscles too, you need to keep them in condition

Yes, everyone who dares to say anything about KnC, even the moderator, is a low troll. Being happy about your KnC order is one thing, shilling hard for them is completely another. People should stop jumping over that line so easily, ask yourself is there some truth in gmaxwell's statement.

Oh come on put your reading glasses on and look at my previous posts in this thread. Then you might realise I already said my piece and am now just pulling yer leg(s)

People are so serious these days...