Bitcoin Forum

I guess I feel a bit left out of all the trolling—

KNC is now mining on their hardware, while customers wait for it to ship:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo

This is, as far as I know, 100% of the KNC hashrate in existence. Pedantically speaking, it means that KNC is violating their 5% commitment.

Testing doesn't involve using the production network. Production mining is unlikely to test finding blocks— whereas testnet, or replays of past found blocks are more complete tests.  Mining on the mainnet increases the difficulty and takes income from customers who are waiting on units that will be late.  Every bit of earlier mining is worth large amounts of future mining due to expected growth.

I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers.

I think they did that as proof of existence of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI

But yeah, they should stop.  ;D

P.S. my mommas fat.

Are you serious? Cant tell if trolling the trolls or just retarded.

if a troll is in the forest, under a bridge, and no one pays him a toll - has the troll done its job by preventing others passage?

lets change around some semantics:
If a global moderator feels compelled to nitpick a company for using an address on their 1st prototyped completed unit and yet turns around and accepted bfl money for years...does that make him a global Troll???  JOHN K????????

Its nothing as I see avalon testing some terahashes in eligius in months and keep customers to wait and waste of ROI.

Mods don't troll. They just tell you what you need to know!  :D ;)

It's a bit trolly to pick on KNC with only .5 TH online— which is why I made the "I guess I feel left out of the trolling" comment. But I really don't understand why people tolerate manufacturers competing with them. Battered wife syndrome perhaps.
It's funny, before avalon had products in existence they made a nice strongly worded comment about how competent testing doesn't involve mining on the network (a position I agree with). As far as I know they didn't mine at scale on the mainnet to test batch 1 units... but the later stuff?  Yea. That also falls into my bin of "why the heck are people tolerating this??".

Seeing as this a moderator-sanctioned trollfest:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3616-whos-placing-new-orders-bfl-right-now-heres-real-competition.html#post44762

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/5127-knc-will-not-time-so-josh-correct-yah-right-2.html#post59956

Oh, Joshy, "assuredly" you don't know when to stop...

https://i.imgur.com/2u5TEB0.jpg

just because avalon did it doesn't make it okay for KnC to do it.

And letting BFL advertise here after all the lies, delays and outright fraud by BFL? Not slapping a ban on Josh when he's abusing their customers here?

I call double standards.

Sure, it's not the same as mining on mainnet to screw customers of ROI, but customers are fucked in either case.

Anyone have proof that BFL and Bitfury didn't do it either? A day's testing on release day to prove real world hash rate doesn't seem overboard. However, if KNC do more than a day and don't ship tomorrow and don't stick to their 5% rule, then I think you have a point.

A much more pertinent question is why did BFL decide to take so long to ramp up their production rate? Just because someone sound's paranoid and whispers "Mini-rigs in the BFL basement" doesn't mean they are wrong  :)

Good, if they didn't nobody would believe their figures. This gives people something to watch.

Do you have some problem with manufactures using gear on the live net? i certainly don't.

Only people that get upset about that sort of thing are trolls or people that can't work out that selling a miner for thousands of dollars profit every few min is worth more than hashing with one for days on end.

As in many industries, the money is in selling the tools not using them.

I make no economic sense whatsoever to hash on the testnet if unless you are doing things that might disturb the main block chain. Miners cost money to run, even for a few hour burnin test.

BFL has done it. They even showed videos of it.

CRY BABY !!!!!

It's proof it's hashing. They will stop, just shut up for a day.

(and to think a mod would know better than this)

While I understand your objection, I think I have to disagree.

First off, we don't know that it's their only unit. They could be using the rest of their test units on a test net and applying the tweaks to the one that's showing, to see how it works in the real world. This is what I would do.

Second, this shows everyone who can follow the blockchain that yes, they do indeed have a working product. It's ONE machine out of many. Sure, technically, right now it's 100 percent of KnC's hash power, but in the very short long run, it's a demo.

I for one am glad to see it working in realtime, verifiably. I think that is worth more than the negligible impact it has on difficulty.

they sold their souls to BFL for all eternity and must defend to their death!!!

I do not doubt that comment, but do you have the link?

Gmaxwell is right.

Likely not going to happen but it would be nice of them to do testing in the testnet.

yeeah , on a testnet !?
And everybody will troll they fixed the tests, like that wil work.....

Boycott Pre-orders!

Or make a pre-order, and sell it for profit when the market is hot ;D

He's right, and wrong, at the same time. A real heisen-comment :P

See, there's a large difference between a proof of a single working machine for all to see, and mining months and months with customer machines (Avalon), and flat out lying about shipping times, delays, inventory, really about everything (BFL).

gmaxwell is just nitpicking here. He should know better.

yeah, just stop ordering asics and stop making the asics manufacturers richer.

network is safe enough.

FTFY

That's the agenda behind 88% of the posts on this forum

OP bored ?  ;D

Being my highly respected dev, I really think you should not bother with all the messes in the custom hardware wild west

I find is strange that Moderators like gmaxwell are taking this path. I thought this forum was neutral to everything and let user decide for themselves. What do you have to win here by doing this? There must be something since you didn't said anything about Avalon mining with customers units and maybe BFL.

I gave you a negative trust rating because of this horseshit FUD.
Worst faggy waste of forum resources that I have seen today.
From a frikkin moderator in this very subforum, no less.

+1

 ::)

then buy them, as much as you can. pre-order 10 TH if you can for 40 $/GH. make my bitcoins safer and raise their value by 500 %.

...i loled

over such a small issue that if it is used as a proof of life ...then its completely justifialble

And then we have BFL the career serial killers & criminals who get a free pass to all and everything

We know that mods cant ban pplz that is theymos domain that has not stopped any of u MODERATING the beast that is BFL.......BFL own u biatch's so take it like the ho's that you are.... lolz

Kudos to KnC for building the first 28nm Bitcoin ASIC!

Greed.

BTW, KNC will mine the shit out of the hardware before it is delivered.

Sure they will send out the samples to the most outspoken members, but the rest of Joe Schmoes will have to dust off their units once they receive them.  I don't think it will be as bad as Avalon (borderline criminal in EU, US and Canada) since they do have to deal with EU regulations and laws.

The address we see here is just for the show.  So expect many blocks to be found by unknown IPs if they decide to setup solo farms.

Who will stop them from producing more hardware to mine for themselves?  There are no laws against it.  It makes perfect business sense.
Is it ethical?  Of course not. It is like a brokerage house selling stocks to clients and selling the same stocks short by themselves.  Profit from both.

[yifu]

you assume that KnC controls that address

[/yifu]

Lets see what happens ...but BFL & Avalon have set the bar so low it does not matter any more

Please don't compare long term Swedish business men with greedy no business manners chinese pussies.

Yes and a customer agrees with him......I think!?!?!

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/5127-knc-will-not-time-so-josh-correct-yah-right-3.html#post59995

lol, you give him positive trust

LOL
Tito's vodka: makes invisible checkmarks appear

Business men everywhere are all the same.  What they do is limited by the laws of where they operate?
If you think otherwise, you are very naive.

If they run business, they run it to maximize profit.  Period.
If they run a non-profit organization, that is a different story.

sure thing, and will write off tons of losses on my taxes and have free mining farm!!!   winning!!

Seriously???

I've been telling ppl they're full of it for 600+ pages.

What will it take for everyone to get in on the program?

 They haven't made a heck of a lot - http://blockexplorer.com/address/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo Anyway, they've been working all weekend so maybe they need some beer money - or Champagne money - and they deserve it!  Finally a company that is a class act and still we aren't happy...
 Kudos to KnC!!!

Take care

 

:)

https://blockchain.info/address/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo

You know, the old books did always say the only way to get rid of a troll is by the proper application of fire  :P

https://ghash.io/ (https://ghash.io/)

Bitfury has been mining over 100TH/s for about 6 weeks...Now they're at 220TH/s.

I sure don't agree with Hardware companies Selling us Millions of $$ of mining hardware while they're mining 10%-40% of the whole damn network!~!  While We wait for our gear to get delivered

No they wont— it's not possible to "fix" testnet mining any more than mainnet mining, hashing is it's own proof....  at least not anymore than you have on the mainnet:  How do you know thats KNC hardware hashing and not just a bitfury device or a couple avalons/bfls?
And the contracts they form with their investors and customers. I wonder why so many people here give money to companies that use it to turn around and compete with them?
No, it's not proof— after all, it could just as easily be some other hardware. They won't stop either— perhaps temporarily, but you can go find pictures of their build-out in the thread.

So, my ability to just use the forum like anyone else vanishes when I say something you don't like? I see.
Nothing. I was idling in Eligius' IRC channel and Bargraphics linked to the announcement. I thought it was ridiculous that KNC was mining on mainnet, competing with their own customers, while they are waiting on now late equipment. Thus the post.

"troll the reputation"— uh, pointing something out, and saying that I'd be furious about it if I were a customer...  If their reputation is going to be dinged by some disapproval, then perhaps they ought not do things that are so easily disapproved of. :)  If you don't think this is a reason someone should be unhappy, then please feel free to ignore it.

The typical swarm of locusts descends to fight to the cannibalistic death over the latest mining drama  :D

The only solution to this mess is the ROI-pocalypse. Post-ASIC mining cannot get to a stable short-term outcome scenario too soon. I fear it will take anything up to 6 months, though.

Feel free to give me a negative rating, then. I don't give a shit, because I don't need to pretend to show impartiality, like you two SHOULD.
Spreading bullshit about a company because it is in your financial interests to see them fail (or insert whatever reason here) please tell me how that is NOT an issue of trust -OR (I should say) - a violation of trust.

Or, is this place one where trolls have taken over, and should not be called out as such?
If he cared about his reputation, he shouldn't be such a dumbass, right?
The Trust Rating System was rolled out well after I became a member, as such, I signed no TOS regarding it.
It was called for (well, some system of rating others, not this one) in part because of the LACK of impartiality shown by bitcointalk mods and staff. Favoritism shown to some, vitriol toward others.

If a mod can troll the reputation of a wannabe legit ASIC manufacturer, whyfore can the mod NOT receive such damage to his rep?

So what's the point of this thread exactly?

Edit: But they already said they will mine with their own farm. So? At least they had the decency to let customers know...

Indeed, but "no more than 5%", after it was demanded by customers. It's currently 100% as far as I can tell. Pedantry, ... sure, a bit, but the most important mining is the earliest.

See the OP: "I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers."

Besides, sometimes it's fun to watch the crazy partisans froth here and there.

Because https://i.imgur.com/CLGAWyt.png matches the Eligius link.

Was there some contract where it was stated that they are not allowed to mine with their own equipment? I missed this. Wouldn't it just be prudent that if you're producing mining equipment that you also eat your own dog food?

Again, the same unit on the laptop in the posted Youtube video is the one hashing.

I have no horse in this race ($0 in KnC gear), but I can't see that this "discovery" really makes a point. They are late on their promises, which is a problem by itself, but if they are mining with one of their own units, I don't think this is damning.

Hilarious desperation of trolling

You are either drunk or high. Do you really think that 0.5Th/s is 100% of their total hashing amount? They got lots of units to ship and they can mine with a lot more, but they don't. They just need X minutes to assemble one more unit.

Actually your thread title is very correct and will remain correct no matter the terms, because 100% of THEIR hashing will always go into their own pocket ;)

Goes well with the hilarious desperate defenses. ... If you don't think there is anything wrong with how some miner hardware companies compete with their own customers even while late on their delivers— then there is nothing to defend and nothing to see here.

lol you're such a moron. this thread is so pointless.

What's actually wrong is the impartiality of the Mods. Why aren't you also blaming Avalon? There are numerous reports of units full of dusts and with pre-made settings.

Don't ANY of you see the larger picture here?  Mining Companies hashing on live Network after customers paid Millions for those devices.  As an Example, Bitfury was nearly 35% of the network when they first rolled out their gear.  https://ghash.io/ (https://ghash.io/)

Instead of thinking a couple days or weeks down the line, look a few months down the line and how do you see the Bitcoin Network?  Are any hobby miners going to be able to survive when there are 10 Hardware companies making up 80% of the total (Now Centralized) Network.

KnC has done a great job in getting their gear out in record time so far but the point about mining remains imho.

Why would I be blaming Avalon? I'm not blaming KNC.  If anyone at all, I'm blaming their customers.  Avalon customers— well, post-batch-1 customers have already been punished enough to not get flak from me, dontcha think?

I'm generally pretty harsh on hashing power consolidations. They undermine the security assumptions of the Bitcoin system. Review my posts if you like.

Wait, what?  All I see is one Jupiter running?

However true, I would criticise the timing of the OP  ;D. You have angered the natives, and it seems that as far as rational debate goes, you can choose between sacrificial heart eating and crucifixion.

Are you kidding? I'm perfectly happy to watch people with poor emotional control and interesting agendas show their true colors.

like yourself??

LOL +1 MILLION.

BURRRRRN

and so so so true.

I guess I'm a little slow, feel free to spell it out for me.

Who's account would you propose that they test on? This would need to be 100% fair to all buyers of the KNC hardware of course.

I'll play your game. Why isn't Avalon's name right now near KNC? Also why didn't you blame/warn Avalon's customers after people reported that they got their Batch 2 units full of dust?

Here is a question... what is your take on the Monarch offering from BFL?

More than willing to listen to gripes about KnC from Mods or respected members of the community but why are those same people so 'SELECTIVE' when they want to make a point? That is why I suspect mods should just steer clear of it all together and or balance out their disdain and give equal time to the more obvious recalcitrant companies who post blatant lies like BFL and Avalon.

A little slow? Well if that isn't the understatement of the year.  At least I spam shit ppl wanna see like a personal phone number for sonny yifu or josh.   If you would'very just waited a few more days to post this thread....I probably wouldn't care....you are clearly showing bias to them that wasn't shown with bfl nor Avalon....to think I used to respect you greg

They show a video of hashing rather than saying they did it holy shit good for them u get quick to say of they are taking your money and mining your earnings away.  Why don't you talk shit about vendors giving away hashspower for charge backs and the highest bidder.

Yes you're comming off as slow and sharp as a marble.

yo mamma is big, no yours ,no mine, no yours

You are really making my namecall of crybaby to you count .
Proof is deliverd by yourself.

This is the first time i'm putting somebody on ignore, and its a mod for god sake too. :o

This thread is waste of bits, go back and mine....

Back to a somewhat theoretical base in logic, I can see the point gmaxwell is making, but for all intents and concerns, one Jupiter mining publicly is no big deal. There are a certain number of units that should have shipped today. If those didn't ship, then certainly they should box up the Jupiter they have mining and ship it out, but if they met their shipment goal for today (all 1st-day shipments sent) then them mining with it is a mute point. To get technical, they didn't breach their contract, as their 5% agreement was based on hashing power sold.

Direct quote from KnCMiner Website: "We will not mine with more than 5% of the hash rate we sell, and we will never mine with customer hardware."
Two main things above: will not mine with more than 5% of the hash rate they SELL. They sold tons of hashing power. I can guarantee you they sold more than 100TH of mining power, so they are currently in the clear. Notice it doesn't say 5% of shipped, although even with that wording, they would likely be fine as well. The 2nd interesting point is that they will never mine with customer hardware. This is technically not a production unit, as it's not in a commercial case. Thereby, it could be easily considered either a quality-control unit, or one that KnC reserved for themselves. Assuming they don't ship that unit to a consumer at any point in time (unless as part of a liquidation), they don't violate the 2nd part as well.

TL;dr: KnC says they won't mine with >5% of the hashing power they sell, they certainly sold more than 10TH total. Also, this unit could be not shipped to a consumer/customer, making it not a customer hardware unit.

Disclosure: I have a day-2 shipping order; Saturn, whoop-whoop. :)

Half kidding. You stoned the hornets nest though, I think we're in agreement there. In truth, there's probably no good time to make a small splash with a KNC based thread, may as well accentuate the wailing and flailing instead  :D

Nice one! Whoop-whoop!

I was shutting down this open window on the browser, and thought I'd see what the Esteemed Moderator had to say about this.

If it ain't the ants, it's the bees.

You're trying to have a nice picnic, blanket on the ground, and next thing you know there's ants in the potato salad.

You move to a table, and -bam- some kid runs by, throws a rock in the bee hive, and then you've got bees swarming around.

Sometimes you should just let it go and eat at Appleby's.

Cry me a river. The impact on customers is minuscule. KnC deserves it, why should they throw those hashes away?

Think of it as an incentive to get to market on time - if you do, you get the coins mined from testing. BFL, fittingly, will not get that profit.

So, basically, you made this thread just to troll? A moderator? Sheesh...

In his defense, he did say so in the OP :)

As per my post before, I think he has a valid point, trolling or not. I disagree, but it's not an unreasonable position.

$37.81? That's less than what I paid for the hotel I'm now in here in Paducah, KY.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=paducah+ky&hnear=Paducah,+McCracken,+Kentucky&gl=us&t=h&z=12

I am deeply amused by the nearby town of "Metropolis, KY".

Also, holy shit, I should retire:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3660-Pecan-Dr-Paducah-KY-42001/2129662390_zpid/

Well that was a nice read.

Two things I did not know about this forum previously:

1). Something tells me Loredo is a sharp cookie.
2). I finally figured out what Moderators actually do here.

They moderate? They modulate? They modify?

Maybe he's a variable, in statistics, a qualitative or quantitative variable that affects the direction and/or strength of the relation between dependent and independent variables.

Skipped right to the last page after reading the first.

So:
1. KnC stated from the start that they will be doing some mining themselves with a fraction of units (read the FAQ on their site).
2. They still need to fine-tune the unit to stabilise its performance so the customers get the most out of them.
3. They need to show the world that a unit can handle sustained mining.

I don't have a problem with any of it and I have 2 orders.

Someone's in the wrong country.

Ok so let me clear a few things up from this side;

Firstly I have no beef with GMaxwell, he's always been prompt at responding to any issues I have raised where I have had the need to contact him. Last was a spelling mistake I think and he was v.sharp to correct and courteous. MiningBuddy has been equally proactive and polite.

Secondly, all prior testing was performed on the testnet as appropriate, however when it comes to actual proof to real customers that the product stands up and performs over a longer period it had to be to an account. Andreas and Sam are not desperate for a few hours worth of mining, and honestly it went to Vitali, the software engineer who finally resolved the bugs that had plagued them throughout the day. Seeing as he had only stood up to walk in a circle a couple of times in 24 hours, I doubt anyone would begrudge him that. Miner is offline now and being reviewed/optimised, whilst acceptable production is focused upon.

Thirdly, despite openly stating they will mine with upto 5% of what they manufacture, they aren't. If at any-point they do, it will be unlikely to occur prior to November's shipment. Quite simply they have sold all available boxes. They had to make a call as to what makes more long term sense. Ensure you have sufficient funds to progress with future generations, whilst ensuring there is a proportional float of chips in case of hardware error, returns, etc. The issue with selling out concerned the controller boards, and where the hell they ended up last week almost ruined what was achieved yesterday. More on that later, but in any case Mercury uses the same number of controller boards as Jupiter, one, but only one ASIC.

Finally aside the dev boxes and prototype board revisions, which will lead to an iterative ongoing improvement with respect t hardware, the only device in KnC's possession to 'mine for themselves' will be in the office foyer, and all coins generated from that will be going direct to charity. Which charity? Sam asked me to find one that accepts Bitcoins. I replied why not choose a known and respected one that has yet to adopt Bitcoins and kill two birds with one stone, by having another worth cause adopt Bitcoins as a payment avenue. Isn't there one close to your heart before I call around? And he stated that his little girl, now 2 years old, spent her first 56 days in intensive care at Sweden's Karolinska Institutet - Dept of Women's and Children's health - Neonatology - as she was born 8 weeks premature. This is one of the world's finest Neonatology wards and he feels indebted to them.

TL;DR Guys stop buying such powerful ASICs because I will be earning less with my current old-gen tech miner.

care to share some more info about "the bug"?

sorry for derailing the thread, though :P

Are you talking about mining pools? I think in the long run it is millions of miners with free electricity or those who use it as a heating device secure the network, the power of the masses ;)

@Bitcoinorama

Are you now officialy work for Knc miners. They have presented you an working unit what you wanted to see first before you accept the job offer.
Maybe premature, but if you are working for them now (you already are kind of), I believe congrats are in order  :)
Great work my man!

Maybe OP sees the future and is sad... KNC killed the scammer advertiser cash cow and they aren't spending half their budget on ads here

Which blocks did your employer mine on testnet?

I don't really get what the issue is here since they said from day 1 that they were going to mine as well. They're mining, or did, to test out a box. That's the big news? BFD.

Man, you sure sound bitter :o

Not defending the KnC shill either, but you're coming off as having a large beef with KnC. It can't be just that one device, so why? :-\

how is this guy even a moderator?!?

Maybe because... http://bitcoin.org/en/development (http://bitcoin.org/en/development)

yup. that will do it! sigh....

You switched to "selective replies" only? You missed my questions.

That depends, where are you wanting to keep the money in the EU or the states, I have one that my business supports.

I'm beginning to worry that the evil spirit recently expelled by Phinnaeus Gage has taken control of you now.  If so, an exorcist is evidently in Kansas City.

 Ha ha!  The Mini-mo or the Hickory House?

Take care

I think he accepts your apology, You can probably get up off your knees and stop bowing before him also

Wait! What?

i dont get it either.

Sarcasm is strong in this one... ;D

i recall sam and andreas saying during first "open day", that any testing of actual customers miners will be done straight towards the customers btc adress.


they did let ONE of the miners run. for some peanuts. and the moderator opens a thread yelling "100 % OF THEIR HASHING (power) ...OWN POCKET."

i am only here since march. so still not very experienced. and here i see a hero member, lots of gold wrapped under his name, even a moderator giving one of the best examples of FUD. especially when considering that the immoral tactic op is accusing knc has actually been used by competitors at large.
bfl pockets are deep. hard to imagine that "their" money reaches that far.

disclosure:
i have been slapped in my face by bfl. (no refund)
i have been burnt by avalon III group buy. (refunded)
i have been burnt by avalon chip sale. (sold)
i have several knc orders.

edit: typo, disclosure brackets

I did? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305447.msg3274059#msg3274059) Really? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305447.msg3273893#msg3273893)  Of course, everyone here has free will, and if anything I think people's unwillingness to selectively read and reply contributes a lot to trolling around here. I certainly don't feel the need to respond point by point to every question, and none of you should either. If you feel I've missed something essential, please hit me up and PM and I'll reply more if I agree!

In any case, I don't see any evidence on testnet of KNC mining there. Bitcoinorama made a falsifiable claim which appear to me to be false. I'm just asking him to clarify here to avoid any confusion.

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why didn't you blame Avalon's customers for funding a mining hardware company that mined in competition with their customers? You weren't harsh at all when there were multiple proofs that they mined a lot with the units before shipping.

but this not only one miner http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/15p19K7psks9PP2faLhFRrn7ooyimGJaun

And that comes with the right of being impartial?

I would have to agree there.   And when many of us were calling out Zhang and Yifu for the scumbag thieves that they are, you actually started a thread seeing if you could gain acceptance for editing all the posts of the pissed off masses.   Personally, that really pissed me off since I was out 10s of thousands and there was TONS of evidence on what the scumbag was doing.    Weird you would pick KNC to all of a sudden be holier than thou about.

Cool, but what do you want to see?

The miner that they showed yesterday and various iterations that have banked an entire 1BTC earlier.

Aside from that there is the FPGA revisions that utilised testnet.

Asking Sam he said it's not a problem, when back in Stockholm it means asking one of the software engineers for access. App thousands of coins were found on testnet as the diff is so low there, rewards were easy. Customers demand real world evidence.

EDIT: idee2013 that's not KnC. No idea.

So what you are saying is the topic of this thread is a lie. I thought as much.

No. The topic of this thread is true and will remain true no matter what. Read it again. All of THEIR hashing is going into THEIR pockets ;) I will call this phrasing fine art trolling because it spreads FUD where it shouldn't.

+1

One thing that's cool about this controversy is the rapid change in spirit of discourse on this forum.  One man challenges a claim he finds suspicious.  The other party immediately responds to the concern in a proactive manner.  

BTW, I assume that "when back in Stockholm" means you have left, presumably for London, to fly to ATL from LHR.  Smart, probably economic, move.  

Make sure they fly your butt at least in C-class (biz) if not F-class (we know what that class is).  You're an important man, now, and they need to keep you happy.  And once in ATL, remember this locale:  Buckhead.  Strange name, great nightlife.  Also Peachtree St., centered at North Avenue.  Close to GA Tech, with all the women that implies.

Have fun.  

EDIT: Oh, yeah; and one other.  Forgot for a moment you guys are big executives now.  The Vinings.  Home of one of America's great restaurants: Canoe, right on the bank of the Chattahoochee River.  Power dining.

Well, I guess moderating is like politics... you don't get there without learning to troll with the best. In this case, a fine example of trolling if I may say so, looks like our esteemed politicomoderator decided to flex his trolling muscles a bit. They're like finely toned muscles too, you need to keep them in condition ;D

Yes, everyone who dares to say anything about KnC, even the moderator, is a low troll. Being happy about your KnC order is one thing, shilling hard for them is completely another. People should stop jumping over that line so easily, ask yourself is there some truth in gmaxwell's statement.

You appeared to be claiming that KNC was testing their operational asic devices on testnet. This claim appears to be false. Do I understand correctly that you mispoke and the device has not actually been tested on testnet and cannot be actually shown to have successfully produced a block?

Not being a KNC customer I can't speak for them, but I'd be really surprised if they demand their manufacturer mining coins and ultimately reducing the customer's own income, ... instead of, you know, shipping the products the customer ordered and paid for. I've certainly seen a lot more people asking for shipping information than for evidence of how much money KNC is making off the not yet shipping hardware. :P  After all, some account on eligius doesn't actually show that any KNC hardware is running at all. ... but a box in customers hands sure would!

If y'all are crazy enough to believe some random hashrate graph as proof of hardware, man, have I got a bridgeminer to sell you.

Uh. I direct your attention to the first post in this thread:
AFAIK, at this point most of this sub-forum has sworn off doing business with Avalon in the future.

I comment generally pretty infrequently. Consider the responses here if you wonder why.  I said at the outfront that I was being a bit intentionally inflammatory about it, but I do think that its a sad state that we've created an environment where the community takes all the risk of the NRE in building a mining device and the end result is these consolidations which undermine the value of that investments. KNC is but one example of it— and not the worst, but with all the claims of how much integrity KNC has, perhaps its the best example that the community here tolerates the behavior rather than something exploitative. Take it for what you will.

Besides, everyone knows that I'm secretly YipYip and Crumbs.

the knc wars starts spreading/infecting to other threads. why is knc so polarizing ? because it is a threat ? to whom ?

some aspects of this bitcoin stuff is way beyond economics. it´s getting religious.

The title of this thread is true for a certain value of truth. I.e.: 100%=1 unit.

Bitcoinorama, may I suggest Durrell Wildlife Conservation Trust as a charity. See the thread in my sig. I am trying to convince them that Bitcoin is the future. They also have corporate charity program, so KnC can be listed in their hall of fame. See also www.durrell.org

I'd certainly like to understand this better... though it's offtopic for the thread.  It's not unique to KNC, e.g. we saw it with BFL.  But I think we've mostly not seen it with hashfast or cointerra.  I've speculated before that some people are afraid of getting ripped off and have to aggressively back their own horse to justify themselves, but even that is incomprehensible to me. Then again, I don't really get team-sports fandom either.

... And I suppose some things are just unknowable.

Well, it's true until they actually get a box in someones hands. I was explicit about it and said it was a bit pedantic. Perhaps some people are unable to read any text which doesn't come with a meme image and from a user with a urinary-tract-infection-yellow ignore button? :)

[As an aside: If you think a thread is dumb it's best to stop posting in it so that it can fall down the page!]

Oh come on put your reading glasses on and look at my previous posts in this thread. Then you might realise I already said my piece and am now just pulling yer leg(s) ;)

People are so serious these days...

Maybe it's related to Stockholm Syndrome? Or the battered wife thingy?


Mmm... I'm starting to see why you made this thread ;D

So you are targeting KNC just because they claimed to have some integrity compared to Avalon and BFL who didn't claim anything and they treated their customers like shit. You aren't targeting retard Inaba who still hasn't honored his lost bet about the power consumption in order to attract more fools (http://www.bitcoindf.org/ 493 BTC still owed and it doesn't even matter it's not a real charity).

You say that you aren't targeting Avalon because most of this sub-forum has sworn to not do business with them anymore, but i don't understand why don't you let this sub-forum do the same thing with KNC if they feel they have been tricked. Also you give this warning after more than 3 companies have already raised up money for their NRE costs (HashFast, Cointerra and Bitmine, maybe VMC and maybe some other companies that i don't recall) Maybe Bitfury too, but i'm not sure where all the hashing from ghash.io comes.

I don't even want to start about the large amount that they mined (sarcasm), but i would like to make you read again Vorksholk's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305447.msg3274263#msg3274263 and specifically to this quote:
Considering that they mine with under 5% your point isn't valid from the start so what are we actually doing here? Letting people know that they keep their promises?

You'd be surprised how easy is to get that urinary infection on this forum. Me for instance got decent yellow button in a few days for a few posts claiming some obvious things about KnC in main KnC thread. It was worth it, learned a lesson never to speak to a deaf ear on the internetZ.

Why have you summoned me!

Eligius has gone parabolic over the last month. From 20 TH/s to 60 TH/s as of a few weeks ago.

Pretty astounding actually.

Gives you a good example of where hashrate is going. To frigging Uranus.

++ AGreed

When u did nothing with all the BFL bullshit that was flying around u tried to claim u where Switzerland & did not get involved in what 80%+ of the community reagarded as Untrustworthy if not outright fraud on sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many ocassions it was a joke

Now u pop your head up over a test mine within their stated goals of 5% and also seems like a practical way to test and be verified

I really think all the fear over Knc is that the are "THE ONE" and all you scam loving sycophants BFL/AVALON.....  are now running scared over a company that may  have some integrity ...I have always said whoever treats their customers fairly will OWN btc

Time will tell......

P.S Good work on totally ruining your rep in 1 post  :P

Maxwell is brilliant.

Maxwell is sad.

Mawell's snarkiness soothes him in the face of the Universe's inequities and disrespect for genius.

Maxwell is not self-aware.

Maxwell is on record as a cornerstone of bitcoin development, integrity, durability, professionalism, objectivity, and neutrality.

Outsiders, casual observers, interested power players, newbies, and historians will read Maxwell's comments, link those comments to his power position in the Bitcoin uinverse, and draw their own conclusions.

Maxwell doesn't care.

Yes I demand to be ignored ...lolz

And in tern I will ignore you...

It will be a IGNOREOFF

Why you?

I probably was about fifty percent in agreement with you on the thread, but I never thought you posted anything particularly outrageous or "ignore" worthy.

Then again I got a pretty thick skin :P I only ignored one person, because they never had anything to contribute. Even if your argument is valid, typing the same two sentences ad infinitum gets old.

Woops, before I get called on it, only ignored one user on that thread. Total of two, and second admitted they were just trolling.

That's because you like to hear some opposite arguments to form an opinion, but some people don't like to have an opinion. They like to be in a herd an only hear the noise of their own herd.

Let's put this thread to oblivion of no new posts update, few were interested in gmaxwell's arguments.

Mr. Maxwell has been nothing but cool to me, so I took it in the spirit offered. I disagree with his conclusion, as what they have done isn't egregious. I don't disagree with his observation in general. Those that jumped him for the policies of the operator of the forum have an axe to grind with someone else. My axe is unrelated to the forum, since I'm a fuckin' rebel by any definition you care to root out.

But yes, I like to hear all sides of an argument before weighing in. I frequently have my own take that ain't on any "set" side. Probably how I wound up an anarchist :) (and much earlier, captain of the debate team)

Genuinely, what's the real issue here? They used Testnet throughout their entire development on the boards awaiting ASICs, using their four quadrant PCB. This can be proven, no problem apparently. That software engineer is in Stockholm.

People DO want to see it running stable in a real world hashing environment. On and off it's around 1.5 coins. Chill.

Every other vendor has been chastised to hell and back for this very thing.  It just wouldn't be "right" not to harass them for it.  Not that I care one way or another.

Testnet is as real-world hashing environment as mainnet. Hashing is hashing, the only difference is number of blocks solved which is unimportant for testing. You should know that. These boxes aren't their's to mine on mainnet. If they devoted 5% of machines to themselves and never sold them, that's OK to mine with them, it's their property. But with other people's property it's not OK and no late-thought-of charity donations will make it right.

lol you're an idiot

+100

Not as big as you since you can't even explain your thinking.

I would not buy a miner that hadn't proven itself mining on the real net. Testnet is not the same.

Mining testnet is a very similar workload to mining shares on a pool. If you were saying you wanted to see a solved high difficulty block— that would be another matter. A technically superior test would be to mine recently completed mainnet blocks to verify that the device would actually submit solutions.  As it'll be quite awesome when, intentionally or otherwise, some mining asic has a "bug" that causes it to lose some percentage of its full solutions but not its shares... widespread deployment of such a device would probably put every pool out of business in a few days. :P

[Aside: I'm only bothering to reply to this thread because it's currently on top]

Arn't you the guy that admitted to having incestual sexual intercourse with his sister?

lol what's the difference? If you wrote something like this I bet you would not be able to tell by the cgminer screen on which net you are currently on. Hint: the only difference is the difficulty value. Totally unimportant for the hashrate or any other miner functionality.

Bitcoinrama already admitted they were paying some hacker (who helped them last minute debugging) with that mined coins, which is shady as hell. Would it be legal to do if that machine was not a BTC miner but, for instance, printing press instead? Of course it would be illegal.

Then let's keep it on top!

"very similar". See, "very similar" isn't good enough for me. I have a lot of money invested in my miners. Do you ship new versions of Bitcoin without running them on the live network? Until there is a test suite that verifies the protocol completely, there are all sorts of issues that could crop up on main net that don't show up on test net. Test net is a good starting place, but it doesn't offer everything that main net does.

Not "some hacker", but their employee.
Your printing press analogy is wrong - if someone working at a government mint solved a particularly difficult problem, they'd probably get a bonus on top of their salary. This 1 BTC is the same.

LET THIS USELESS THREAD DIE PLEASE!

STop It NOW ...lolz

Testnet - screenshot pinged to me form dev's android app.:

https://i.imgur.com/4o0JGaT.png

Locking thread because it's both run its course and they've actually got hardware in people's hands now!