Mining , still worth it?

[dimpsk]

I'm about to invest in some more hardware, so maybe helpful for me to explain my reasoning as it goes against what most people are saying;

1 - People are saying not to invest because payback period is ~12-14 months. In any normal business a payback period of 2-3 years is pretty decent

2 - People are calculating ROI based on current prices. I personally believe we are due a big run up end of the month/April which will mean the payback period is much quicker

3 - No one seems to factor in the residual value of the components. Say you spend $2k on GPUs, your ROI shouldn't be calculated on the basis of how long it takes to mine $2k (+electric). It should be based on how long it takes you to mine how much your assets have depreciated (+electric). Given the current crazy gpu market, your equipment will have a strong resale value  

4 - I don't plan to mine with my GPU's; instead I contribute to science through folding@home and get paid cryptos as a side benefit. This is actually more profitable than nicehash in my experience, but even if I only break even at least I am contributing to Stanford's research into Alzheimer's/Cancer/Parkinson's etc

Look, apparantly ROI now is up 2 years. For any common busines it is excellent but here it is not. Flash back a bit, excellent  2 - 3 years  ago videocards like 750ti and 460 now are generating only losses. Because difficulty rises dramatically and net hashing power - too.

Yep, nobody knows where will  be prices and difficulty in a month.

As for  me, I settled such a rule.  If you had estimated 6 monthes ROI - it is excellent.
If you had 10-12 monthes ROI - may be yes may be no
If you had 15 and more monthes ROI - forget it like a nightmare

[toptek]

I don't know why people give this guy serious replies.  Lets start with the fact that his personal text advertises "renting" EU Paypal accounts.  Hilarious that he knows guys "in real life" mining with 10 computers, he tells them its not worth it but obviously has no clue, so he comes to the foum and asks.  The fact that he gives zero info about their setup shows he is clueless.

There is an old weight lifting saying me and my buddies go by "those  who say it cant be done shouldn't get in the way of  those who are getting it done."

cool saying ....i Agree ...

[smoolae]

Mining is still profitable though a lot less than it was some months ago. My rig (5x R9 290) pulls in around 4-5 euros a day, some time ago it was over 10-15 euros a day. Rough times, wouldn't invest in mining hardware right now to be honest.

[Max Likelihood]

I'm about to invest in some more hardware, so maybe helpful for me to explain my reasoning as it goes against what most people are saying;

1 - People are saying not to invest because payback period is ~12-14 months. In any normal business a payback period of 2-3 years is pretty decent

2 - People are calculating ROI based on current prices. I personally believe we are due a big run up end of the month/April which will mean the payback period is much quicker

3 - No one seems to factor in the residual value of the components. Say you spend $2k on GPUs, your ROI shouldn't be calculated on the basis of how long it takes to mine $2k (+electric). It should be based on how long it takes you to mine how much your assets have depreciated (+electric). Given the current crazy gpu market, your equipment will have a strong resale value   

4 - I don't plan to mine with my GPU's; instead I contribute to science through folding@home and get paid cryptos as a side benefit. This is actually more profitable than nicehash in my experience, but even if I only break even at least I am contributing to Stanford's research into Alzheimer's/Cancer/Parkinson's etc

I can't disagree with any of this. Risk tolerance is high personal. Re: 4)  I would like to know how liquid Medic and other such tokens are though, if you're thinking of trading into other cryptos or ultimately fiat--my understanding is they're not on many major exchanges.

One last note on 4)--I'm a health scientist in academia, and the argument for "nobler" uses of distributed computing like protein folding or renting your CUDA cores for AIcomputations is something I naturally support--but be aware that sometimes, there is a big industry hand in these projects and the efforts may partially help a commercial entity's R&D efforts rather than exclusively benefit academic science. It's still science, but ultimately for profit when it's done by industry. I have no idea about Stanford's project, but I can there is often plenty of profit motive mixed in with the "pure science" when academic-industry partnerships exist. Some actually argue that that's a useful thing because if there are stock options in a biotech that could go parabolic at the end of the rainbow, rather than peer reviewed publication, projects move faster. May not make a difference to you one way or the other, but just a thought.

[QuintLeo]

I'm about to invest in some more hardware, so maybe helpful for me to explain my reasoning as it goes against what most people are saying;

1 - People are saying not to invest because payback period is ~12-14 months. In any normal business a payback period of 2-3 years is pretty decent

3 - No one seems to factor in the residual value of the components. Say you spend $2k on GPUs, your ROI shouldn't be calculated on the basis of how long it takes to mine $2k (+electric). It should be based on how long it takes you to mine how much your assets have depreciated (+electric). Given the current crazy gpu market, your equipment will have a strong resale value  

4 - I don't plan to mine with my GPU's; instead I contribute to science through folding@home and get paid cryptos as a side benefit. This is actually more profitable than nicehash in my experience, but even if I only break even at least I am contributing to Stanford's research into Alzheimer's/Cancer/Parkinson's etc

 1) 2-3 year payback for most gear in most businesses is AMAZINGLY GOOD.

 2) Many miners can't afford to "hold in hopes of a runup" - and I don't see any reason why we SHOULD see a runup, current trend and most of the news is bearish.
     This COULD change - but if I was counting on it, I'd INVEST not MINE.

 3) ASIC gear has very little residual value once it becomes unprofitable to operate in Very Low Cost Electric areas - once it hits no better than break-even at 3 cent electric, don't count on getting ANYTHING back out of it.
     GPU gear on the other hand retains significant value for a few years, even without the current insane shortage gouge pricing stuff.

 4) Been there, done that, if I can ever get my recent Bittrex issues straightened out I *might* go back to it despite Vorshok's abusive huge farm BS, but right now I have no way to cash out one of the 2 "merged folding" coins and I can't AFFORD to go without at this time - and it's lower profitability if I can only cash out the one coin I CAN cash out.
 No, that Livewire exchange is NOT an option, it's got a worse rep than Poloniex (which is saying a TON)....

[acarli]

Bitcoin: No, not even close.
Ethereum: Going to PoS. Maybe worth a Node later. I have some friends who mine, and the profit is just OK.
Other altcoins? I think it is possible on some smaller coins, but I doubt it will be profitable in the long run.
I'd say mine a coin that you would like to support for ideological reasons, but financial.

[Hughesy26]

I'm about to invest in some more hardware, so maybe helpful for me to explain my reasoning as it goes against what most people are saying;

 1) 2-3 year payback for most gear in most businesses is AMAZINGLY GOOD.

 2) Many miners can't afford to "hold in hopes of a runup" - and I don't see any reason why we SHOULD see a runup, current trend and most of the news is bearish.
     This COULD change - but if I was counting on it, I'd INVEST not MINE.

 3) ASIC gear has very little residual value once it becomes unprofitable to operate in Very Low Cost Electric areas - once it hits no better than break-even at 3 cent electric, don't count on getting ANYTHING back out of it.
     GPU gear on the other hand retains significant value for a few years, even without the current insane shortage gouge pricing stuff.

 4) Been there, done that, if I can ever get my recent Bittrex issues straightened out I *might* go back to it despite Vorshok's abusive huge farm BS, but right now I have no way to cash out one of the 2 "merged folding" coins and I can't AFFORD to go without at this time - and it's lower profitability if I can only cash out the one coin I CAN cash out.
 No, that Livewire exchange is NOT an option, it's got a worse rep than Poloniex (which is saying a TON)....

Thanks QuintLeo - all good points. For what it's worth, I've not had any issues with Livecoin, unlike Bitrex where my Cure has got lost for days at a time. It's better than bittrex IMO and ~80% of cure is traded there. Alternatively you could fold for MEDIC. It's fairly new but it has an active community and is currently very similar in profitability, as long as team PPD stays around the 50mil mark. I probably shouldn't tell you this as I remember you are packing enough folding power to take half the daily payout 

[btcneodev]

GPU or CPU is a depreciated product, so if you can't get decent profit then better think twice. But I found the ROI is still acceptable, maybe roughly 1 year or more to earn back your GPU invested.

[Hughesy26]

I can't disagree with any of this. Risk tolerance is high personal. Re: 4)  I would like to know how liquid Medic and other such tokens are though, if you're thinking of trading into other cryptos or ultimately fiat--my understanding is they're not on many major exchanges.

One last note on 4)--I'm a health scientist in academia, and the argument for "nobler" uses of distributed computing like protein folding or renting your CUDA cores for AIcomputations is something I naturally support--but be aware that sometimes, there is a big industry hand in these projects and the efforts may partially help a commercial entity's R&D efforts rather than exclusively benefit academic science. It's still science, but ultimately for profit when it's done by industry. I have no idea about Stanford's project, but I can there is often plenty of profit motive mixed in with the "pure science" when academic-industry partnerships exist. Some actually argue that that's a useful thing because if there are stock options in a biotech that could go parabolic at the end of the rainbow, rather than peer reviewed publication, projects move faster. May not make a difference to you one way or the other, but just a thought.

Thanks for your reply Max.

You are right, Medic isn't very liquid. That's not a reason not to get involved imo. There are currently buy orders for 0.9 BTC on cryptobridge and I have always managed to sell no problem there. Cure/FLDC are much bigger markets and are on more major exchanges if that is important to you. I personally like getting involved in some projects before they are listed on big exchanges, as there is then more upside potential, but that is just a personal preference.

I take your point about profit motive in science but that doesn't bother me. I fold for profit at the end of the day so I can't be critical of others profiting too! I would definitely recommend you look into Satnford's F@H project and BOINC/gridcoin given your background.

[Zepp74]

It is worth it if you don't take a loan and dump all your money into it as a full time job. If you have a full time job and the cash to spend just do this as a hobby to make extra cash it is still worth it. The huge miners is what hurts the little guys anyways.

[dimpsk]

GPU or CPU is a depreciated product, so if you can't get decent profit then better think twice. But I found the ROI is still acceptable, maybe roughly 1 year or more to earn back your GPU invested.

I bought GPU when ROI was 10-12 monthes. Now it is about 2.5 years. So I don't buy more because I can count. So it's a waiting game as always.

[dimpsk]

It is worth it if you don't take a loan and dump all your money into it as a full time job. If you have a full time job and the cash to spend just do this as a hobby to make extra cash it is still worth it. The huge miners is what hurts the little guys anyways.

Actually it is a bit more complicated. First you should invest into hardware equipment. It's not only GPU, but HDD, PSU, memory, motherboard.
After that you should  pay for electricity. Now it is about 1/3 of income in case of efficient GPU.
From other 2/3 income you may want recoup you investment cost.
It is not obviously becouse after 3 years your GPU will be obsolete for sure.

[gotminer]

GPU or CPU is a depreciated product, so if you can't get decent profit then better think twice. But I found the ROI is still acceptable, maybe roughly 1 year or more to earn back your GPU invested.

I bought GPU when ROI was 10-12 monthes. Now it is about 2.5 years. So I don't buy more because I can count. So it's a waiting game as always.

Not really.  Sell your older gpu's (if they're that bad) and buy the ones that give the best hash rate when they come out.  I'd rather be holding as much crypto as I can right now, in anticipation of a price increase.  Might happen this year, next year, five years from now, who knows.  Might never happen.  Know the risks before you start playing the game.

Has nothing to do with being able to count.  Your capital recovery time frame could be reduced in half or less than half in a matter of days, weeks, months.  Wouldn't be the first time.  I personally want to be holding as much crypto as I can.

[QuintLeo]

It is worth it if you don't take a loan and dump all your money into it as a full time job. If you have a full time job and the cash to spend just do this as a hobby to make extra cash it is still worth it. The huge miners is what hurts the little guys anyways.

I didn't take a loan, but I moved almost 2 years ago so I could afford to make mining my "full time job".
It's been worth it and still is at this point - for me.

Your details and preferences may differ.


GPUs don't "go obsolete" in 3 years, even in mining usage - the HD 7870/7950/7970 from *over 5* years ago are still effective profitable miners, and the R9 290 from about 4 years back or so is STILL one of the top Ethereum miners on hashrate (only surpassed reliably by the GTX 1070, GTX 1080ti, Titans of the Pascal generation, Titan V, matched by the R9 390/390x and SOMETIMES topped by Fury and Vega cards).



If your electric cost for a GPU rig is 1/3'd of your gross income from that rig, you have high priced electric by mining standards.

[Marvell2]

It is worth it if you don't take a loan and dump all your money into it as a full time job. If you have a full time job and the cash to spend just do this as a hobby to make extra cash it is still worth it. The huge miners is what hurts the little guys anyways.

I didn't take a loan, but I moved almost 2 years ago so I could afford to make mining my "full time job".
It's been worth it and still is at this point - for me.

Your details and preferences may differ.


GPUs don't "go obsolete" in 3 years, even in mining usage - the HD 7870/7950/7970 from *over 5* years ago are still effective profitable miners, and the R9 290 from about 4 years back or so is STILL one of the top Ethereum miners on hashrate (only surpassed reliably by the GTX 1070, GTX 1080ti, Titans of the Pascal generation, Titan V, matched by the R9 390/390x and SOMETIMES topped by Fury and Vega cards).



If your electric cost for a GPU rig is 1/3'd of your gross income from that rig, you have high priced electric by mining standards.

Same boat, I used to dump my GPUs after a year or so but I always regretted it.  I think its better to use them for 5 years at least , since they are paid off

at that point just mine coins or algos that use less power if you have to, and its all green.  Plus any GPU that runs for 3 straight years with no issues is a keeper

I will probbaly never go bad, unless there is some physical damage to the fans.   I cant count how many times I bough a new GPU and it died after a few months and I underclock and

undervolt all my gear.   My good GPUs will never be sold.

[Metroid]

I'm about to invest in some more hardware, so maybe helpful for me to explain my reasoning as it goes against what most people are saying;

1 - People are saying not to invest because payback period is ~12-14 months. In any normal business a payback period of 2-3 years is pretty decent

2 - People are calculating ROI based on current prices. I personally believe we are due a big run up end of the month/April which will mean the payback period is much quicker

3 - No one seems to factor in the residual value of the components. Say you spend $2k on GPUs, your ROI shouldn't be calculated on the basis of how long it takes to mine $2k (+electric). It should be based on how long it takes you to mine how much your assets have depreciated (+electric). Given the current crazy gpu market, your equipment will have a strong resale value  

4 - I don't plan to mine with my GPU's; instead I contribute to science through folding@home and get paid cryptos as a side benefit. This is actually more profitable than nicehash in my experience, but even if I only break even at least I am contributing to Stanford's research into Alzheimer's/Cancer/Parkinson's etc

1 - this is not a normal business. In here you lose a lot, on normal businesses you don't lose like you lose here. Also, is not 12 -14 months, right now roi is 1100 days or 3 years.

2 - you are speculating, you should not count on that.

3 - anything you buy now, will not have resale value at all since new gpus are coming and people like new gpus, example, the last nvidia series 980.

4 - that is a good thing.

[Metroid]

GPUs don't "go obsolete" in 3 years, even in mining usage - the HD 7870/7950/7970 from *over 5* years ago are still effective profitable miners, and the R9 290 from about 4 years back or so is STILL one of the top Ethereum miners on hashrate (only surpassed reliably by the GTX 1070, GTX 1080ti, Titans of the Pascal generation, Titan V, matched by the R9 390/390x and SOMETIMES topped by Fury and Vega cards).

if your electric cost for a GPU rig is 1/3'd of your gross income from that rig, you have high priced electric by mining standards.

So here you are assuming or speculating that the new gpu generation will continue like before, seeing low gains  x old gpus, if nvidia launches a gpu which mines eth at 80mhs and cost $400, nobody with sane mind will buy any old gpu.

[Suslived]

I'm about to invest in some more hardware, so maybe helpful for me to explain my reasoning as it goes against what most people are saying;

1 - People are saying not to invest because payback period is ~12-14 months. In any normal business a payback period of 2-3 years is pretty decent

2 - People are calculating ROI based on current prices. I personally believe we are due a big run up end of the month/April which will mean the payback period is much quicker

3 - No one seems to factor in the residual value of the components. Say you spend $2k on GPUs, your ROI shouldn't be calculated on the basis of how long it takes to mine $2k (+electric). It should be based on how long it takes you to mine how much your assets have depreciated (+electric). Given the current crazy gpu market, your equipment will have a strong resale value   

4 - I don't plan to mine with my GPU's; instead I contribute to science through folding@home and get paid cryptos as a side benefit. This is actually more profitable than nicehash in my experience, but even if I only break even at least I am contributing to Stanford's research into Alzheimer's/Cancer/Parkinson's etc

Good post sir.

I completely agree with #3. What people forget to realize is that the mining hardware we have still has value. Esp. if you buy high end cards which have excellent resale value. In fact, if you bought cards last year, you can even sell your hardware now at breakeven or even higher prices.

[Metroid]

In fact, if you bought cards last year, you can even sell your hardware now at breakeven or even higher prices.

want to have resale value? so buy new gpus, last year resale value will only last till new gpus are released, so if somebody has 14nm or 16nm gpus should consider sell right now before is too late.

[leftover_potato]

if you are a business mining entity, perhaps it is worth it. gone are the days mining is worth it for hobbyist. last it was fun backa t 2014/2015.