[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[IamNotSure]

Is it just me or do you think electricity cost of 0.45$/kWh is quite big?
It says it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjI5bgsiFJAidFBsclpVM0FSdFZNalRGNnVlc0VxSGc&usp=drive_web#gid=1

I myself pay about 0.14-0.16$/kwh in Finland.

CryptX is based in Belgium where they are being r*ped by electricty companies. Price is 0,23 € on average -> 0,3 $ /kWh ... Not the best place to build a farm in the world.

Then yes, 0,45$ is anormally big

[Raitzi]

Is it just me or do you think electricity cost of 0.45$/kWh is quite big?
It says it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjI5bgsiFJAidFBsclpVM0FSdFZNalRGNnVlc0VxSGc&usp=drive_web#gid=1

I myself pay about 0.14-0.16$/kwh in Finland.

CryptX is based in Belgium where they are being r*ped by electricty companies. Price is 0,23 € on average -> 0,3 $ /kWh ... Not the best place to build a farm in the world.

Then yes, 0,45$ is anormally big

Ok. Noted that we have very good nordic electricity market in Finland(together with sweden, norway and denmark)  and competition is good for consumers. Actually Finland took electricity tax away from data centers last year to lure more of them here.(google already brought their gmail servers here)

[rdyoung]

Is it just me or do you think electricity cost of 0.45$/kWh is quite big?
It says it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjI5bgsiFJAidFBsclpVM0FSdFZNalRGNnVlc0VxSGc&usp=drive_web#gid=1

I myself pay about 0.14-0.16$/kwh in Finland.

From their website
http://www.peta-mine.co/cryptx-buys-datacenter/

September 9, 2013 – Brussels – CryptX, a company which specializes in Bitcoin mining, is pleased to announce the purchase of its own datacenter.

The datacenter has an initial power capacity to host 300 TH/s of Bitcoin mining equipment. The capacity can be expanded if necessary. The electricity costs can be kept at a minimum due to our on-site solar plant of 350,000 Watt. The first deployment of 20 TH/s at the end of September has a monthly total cost, including electricity, maintenance and hosting, of maximum 5,000$.

The purchase of the datacenter is the second milestone in the development of the PETA-MINE. This enables CryptX to run the mine very cost efficient.

I have looked at their spreadsheet and find it lacking. For one its based on 10day increments when they will be paying weekly. Second, their increase in network hashrate is fixed instead of an average %. I could go on.

According to their website, (see above) they have capacity for solar power, so maybe that .45 for electricity is outdated, or accounts for paying off the install of the solar panels.

[Morguk]

I only have 7 shares in PETA as that's all I can afford, but all this talk is making it sound fishy. The high elec costs and the lack of comms with cointerra. What's going on? I thought I made a sound investment. I predicted 1 BTC return over 12 months with 7 shares.

[runam0k]

The higher electricity costs were addressed earlier in the thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310783.msg3727002;topicseen#msg3727002

[ujka]

All this talk is just that - talk.
We all read the contract and that spreadsheet and agreed to the terms when we bought shares.
What's all that 'talk' now?

$0.45 is not only for electricity, it's 'hosting fee' - including electricity, maintenance and hosting.
About cointerra (thay are a few weeks late with batch #1) - last thing I read in their thread is that they are offering batch #1 customers a MARCH upgrade of the same hashing power they bought for december. But only if they (cointerra) are more then 30 days late. Don't know what they are offering to CryptX.
Bitmine - also a few weeks late with it's first batch.
But all that things are out of CryptX control.

[dhenson]

I feel that I need to clarify my position.  I don't think that anything 'fishy' is going on.  Cryptx has proven himself to be fair and honest and at this point there is simply no reason to doubt anything that he says.  The mine has been run honestly and more than fair (additional hardware out of his own pocket etc.)

My previous statement was simply due to the fact that I question his motivation.  Being an early investor in Cointerra it is my opinion that his loyalties seem to be somewhat at odds between PETAMINE and Cointerra on this issue.

The original 20% deal is insufficient to account for the lost revenue from Cointerra's delay.  Cointerra has acknowledged this by offering other December customers compensation that far exceeds the 20% we are currently receiving.  Obviously, any deal we strike that improves our compensation will negatively effect Cointerra.

Obviously, as a large investor in PETAMINE, I want our operator to be 100% committed to doing everything possible to ensure it's success.  By the information we are receiving from Cryptx, it does not appear that is happening.

I would appreciate a clear statement to the effect of negotiations are underway and we can expect an answer by x date etc.  Simply not attempting to receive fair compensation does not sit well with me and I'm assuming it doesn't sit well with other share holders either.

[ujka]

I only have 7 shares in PETA as that's all I can afford, but all this talk is making it sound fishy. The high elec costs and the lack of comms with cointerra. What's going on? I thought I made a sound investment. I predicted 1 BTC return over 12 months with 7 shares.

Just for fun - since bitcoin is rallying again, let's see what happens in that spreadsheet if it's value is, say, 1500$.
Download the spreadsheet, input 1550 in BTC/USD cell, and look at the dividend/share cell: 0.402  
* your 7 shares =

[Morguk]

I only have 7 shares in PETA as that's all I can afford, but all this talk is making it sound fishy. The high elec costs and the lack of comms with cointerra. What's going on? I thought I made a sound investment. I predicted 1 BTC return over 12 months with 7 shares.

Just for fun - since bitcoin is rallying again, let's see what happens in that spreadsheet if it's value is, say, 1500$.
Download the spreadsheet, input 1550 in BTC/USD cell, and look at the dividend/share cell: 0.402  
* your 7 shares =

Lol I didn't even know the dividends would increase depending on BTC/USD. Wow, so there's potential for 2-3 BTC return I'm happy! I have 10 LTC in my wallet, tempted to invest more. Do you have any shares?

[ujka]

I have looked at their spreadsheet and find it lacking. For one its based on 10day increments when they will be paying weekly. Second, their increase in network hashrate is fixed instead of an average %. I could go on.

Of course it's lacking. It's not easy to make an accurate model in spreadsheet.

Why 10 days?
They tried to follow difficulty update which happens on 10 to 14 days, depending on increase.
They are not calculating weakly divs, there is only 'total' divs/share for the whole year.

Why fixed increase?
Well, it's not fixed, look closer, it's changing, starting with 2500 (jan, feb), then it's 3500 (mar-may), after that 4000.
If you want that in % - that's something like starting with 20% increase now and decreasing that every retarget period by 7%. (maybe too optimistic?)

[ujka]

Lol I didn't even know the dividends would increase depending on BTC/USD. Wow, so there's potential for 2-3 BTC return I'm happy! I have 10 LTC in my wallet, tempted to invest more. Do you have any shares?

Dividend depends on BTC/USD because hosting fee is calculated in USD and reinvestment TH also.
I also hope that new chips coming later in 2014 will be more energy efficient, and that can also help keeping hosting cost lower. Spreadsheet shows that in September 2014 hosting costs outgrows reinvestment amount.

(Yes, I have some shares I bought back then in first IPO on btc-tc.co. Was that August? And this waiting game is killing me. But still holding.)

[rdyoung]

I have looked at their spreadsheet and find it lacking. For one its based on 10day increments when they will be paying weekly. Second, their increase in network hashrate is fixed instead of an average %. I could go on.

Of course it's lacking. It's not easy to make an accurate model in spreadsheet.

Why 10 days?
They tried to follow difficulty update which happens on 10 to 14 days, depending on increase.
They are not calculating weakly divs, there is only 'total' divs/share for the whole year.

Why fixed increase?
Well, it's not fixed, look closer, it's changing, starting with 2500 (jan, feb), then it's 3500 (mar-may), after that 4000.
If you want that in % - that's something like starting with 20% increase now and decreasing that every retarget period by 7%. (maybe too optimistic?)

Of course its hard to make an accurate model. The spreadsheet is to try to make a prediction to help make investment decisions. I would use a % increase rather than a fixed # because we have historical data for the growth of the network. You could program a reduction in % after so many weeks, ie, 10% of 10%. this would account for the likely slowing of network growth over time.
I am also curious why they didn't just use the difficulty, instead of their % of the network.

I understand them using 10 days because of difficulty increase, but with weekly dividends and reinvestment, it would make more sense to calculate for the week, and perhaps calculate the difficulty increase weekly as well. While this wouldn't be exact, it would provide #s that are likely more conservative and things work out better than the math says.

[astutiumRob]

Bitcoin difficulty adjusts every 2016 blocks. A block is mined about every 10 minutes. This means difficulty adjusts about every 2 weeks. There are about 4 weeks in a month.

There are ~3 difficulty changes per month due to the speed the network is growing

Bitcoin difficulty is adjusting about +1% per adjustment

Difficulty has been going up a *lot* more than 1% - last few adjustments:
2014-01-06 03:07:50 AM   1418481395
2014-01-01 09:30:40 PM   1180923195
2013-12-21 03:55:20 AM   908350862
2013-12-10 08:07:30 AM   707408283
2013-11-27 06:55:30 AM   609482679
2013-11-16 05:05:10 AM   510929738
2013-11-05 07:30:09 PM   390928787

[Foebar]

All these delays from suppliers are the main reason I voted against a sale of the initial mining hardware.

Better some returns on the shares than all these delays (no fault on Cryptx part)

Guess some people thought they could get a quick win

[spartan82]

how much of a delay are we talking here? has there been any info from cointerra?

[rdyoung]

how much of a delay are we talking here? has there been any info from cointerra?

According to their forum
http://forum.cointerra.com/threads/more-news.278/
They are only a few weeks behind on decembers batch.

[rdyoung]

I only have 7 shares in PETA as that's all I can afford, but all this talk is making it sound fishy. The high elec costs and the lack of comms with cointerra. What's going on? I thought I made a sound investment. I predicted 1 BTC return over 12 months with 7 shares.

Just for fun - since bitcoin is rallying again, let's see what happens in that spreadsheet if it's value is, say, 1500$.
Download the spreadsheet, input 1550 in BTC/USD cell, and look at the dividend/share cell: 0.402  
* your 7 shares =

try 5,000$..you can be multi-millionare even with 7 shares, 168% of all bitcoins ever created will be paid out through divs here

Not sure where your seeing the 168%, however theoretically we will still earn bitcoins from mining when all bitcoins have been created. This income will come from the fees. So in theory yes, you could earn as many btc as will ever be created.

[frito]

Is it just me or do you think electricity cost of 0.45$/kWh is quite big?
It says it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjI5bgsiFJAidFBsclpVM0FSdFZNalRGNnVlc0VxSGc&usp=drive_web#gid=1

I myself pay about 0.14-0.16$/kwh in Finland.

From their website
http://www.peta-mine.co/cryptx-buys-datacenter/

September 9, 2013 – Brussels – CryptX, a company which specializes in Bitcoin mining, is pleased to announce the purchase of its own datacenter.

The datacenter has an initial power capacity to host 300 TH/s of Bitcoin mining equipment. The capacity can be expanded if necessary. The electricity costs can be kept at a minimum due to our on-site solar plant of 350,000 Watt. The first deployment of 20 TH/s at the end of September has a monthly total cost, including electricity, maintenance and hosting, of maximum 5,000$.

The purchase of the datacenter is the second milestone in the development of the PETA-MINE. This enables CryptX to run the mine very cost efficient.

I have looked at their spreadsheet and find it lacking. For one its based on 10day increments when they will be paying weekly. Second, their increase in network hashrate is fixed instead of an average %. I could go on.

According to their website, (see above) they have capacity for solar power, so maybe that .45 for electricity is outdated, or accounts for paying off the install of the solar panels.

Large electricity users in EU can get easily down around 0.1$/kwh.

[IamNotSure]

Large electricity users in EU can get easily down around 0.1$/kwh.

Not really, look at the first table here. http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Energy_price_statistics and it was in 2011

Large users get 0.115 €/kWh in 2011 in Belgium, that means 0.15 $/kWh. I doubt it's cheaper now.

But AFAIK we don't know the details for petamine ... (we don't even know the annual consumption and if they should be considered a "large" user)

[frito]

Large electricity users in EU can get easily down around 0.1$/kwh.

Not really, look at the first table here. http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Energy_price_statistics and it was in 2011

Large users get 0.115 €/kWh in 2011 in Belgium, that means 0.15 $/kWh. I doubt it's cheaper now.

But AFAIK we don't know the details for petamine ... (we don't even know the annual consumption and if they should be considered a "large" user)

look at page 27 figure 24. Belgium industrial price 7-17 cents/kW (ex VAT, i suppose cryptx is a VAT payer
pdf here

with all the teraH/s cx had, they have been well qualified for e.g.the prices u state.