[SCAM] Is payonix.com a legitimate AISC H/w manufacturer in Australia?

[critta]

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum, I came here after googling Payonix.

On the 15th of November I purchased a 1TH ASIC miner from Payonix via credit card. I was asked to wire transfer the funds which I declined and apparently paypal processing would take to long so I used my NAB Visa through their payment gateway.

I received an email on the 18th of November.

Hi Steve,

Due to an issue with our chips, we have issued a full refund to your card. Attached is the receipt.

Once the manufacturer fixes the issue, we will contact you again.

We apologise and wish you all the best.

Attached was a picture https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7hGnTq2qYbcVTJJaEFIUjlYMnlJcUhqTjdObFBRY0NWd2FZ/edit?usp=sharing of the payment gateway with the word "refunded".

On the 18th of November, my business partner Paul emailed them to ask why it was cancelled and told them we were looking at getting another 1TH machine on top of the one that was cancelled.

On the 19th I received this email forwarded from Paul;

> Hi Paul,
>
> Confirming from our conversation, our units were returned due to faulty
> soldering. Our manufacturer has fixed this and we will get them back
> next week. This issue wont happen again.
>
> Here are the bank details. We only have 2 available due to cancellations
> and we have people hounding us for them.
>
> Westpac Bank
> Acc Name: Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd
> BSB: 034-279
> Acc: 419823
>
> Reference: Order #271
>
> Once paid, please provide receipt so we can lock in your order position.
> We will issue you with a receipt and will ask for delivery instructions.
>
> If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
>
> ---
> Best,
>
> Andrew
> Co-founder
> Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd
> 55 Cavill Avenue, Surfers Paradise, Qld, Australia 4217
> +61 (7) 5641-2441
> Skype: payonix
> sales@payonix.com
>
> On 2013-11-19 07:16, Paul ** wrote:
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > I would be definitely interested in both and will get back to you
> > sometime today.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Paul
> > Mobile:
> >
> >> Subject: Re: Enquiry Paul **
> >> From: sales@payonix.com
> >> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:54:55 +1000
> >> To: paul
> >>
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> We can give you 2 1TH/s miners. We would need payment ASAP and only
> > through bank wire (credit card takes far too long to settle).
> >>
> >> Please advise via email our phones are acting up.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >> Co-founder
> >> Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
> >> +61 (7) 5641-2441
> >> Skype: payonix

On the evening of 19th November, I logged into my netbank and noticed that the credit card payment cleared (which meant he had received the money which was meant to be refunded) I started to get a weird feeling about this, so I decided to Google Payonix and found this thread.

After reading the information in this thread, I became apprehensive and lost trust in the company. I called NAB and put a dispute on the transaction.

On the 20th I received a cheeky email from payonix with an invoice to pay, here is that conversation:

Hi Steven,

We are well aware of that forum and of the person who is parading around as me. We have spoken to the owners of bitcointalk who will delete the thread upon delivery of our first units.

We have been hacked 4 times, linkedin accounts taken over, and had 22.8 bitcoins stolen - it has been a nightmare. It is to be expected within this market though as it is still very dark underground orientated.

Your refund was processed when I said it was. Attached is the proof. According to stripe is takes 5-7 days to recredit to a client, which is standard when it comes to credit card payments. Please look at the dates on the refund receipt.

We understand your position based on these idiots trying to ruin us. We will still be releasing our units and will be making deliveries as planned.

If you have any additional questions, I am here to answer them for you. If not, I wish you all the best.

---
Best,

Andrew
Co-founder
Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd
55 Cavill Avenue, Surfers Paradise, Qld, Australia 4217
+61 (7) 5641-2441
Skype: payonix
sales@payonix.com

On 2013-11-21 13:21, Steven ***wrote:
Andrew,

I have not seen the refund advised by email on Monday, however I can
see the transaction has cleared and you have received the money. Since
we last emailed, I have found posts on bitcointalk.com which have led
me to believe this was a fraudulent transaction, and such, am pleased
to have received the email advising of the refund as I would have
requested one otherwise.

It is complete speculation at this point that you are conducting
fraudulent activities, but to prevent any damages that I might incur,
I have taken the steps to contact my bank and dispute the transaction
and have VISA investigate the transaction. However, I am willing to
lift this dispute if the money is returned and I receive a full refund
in the next 24 hours.

Regards,

Steven **



-----Original Message-----
From: Payonix Sales Department [mailto:sales@payonix.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2013 7:20 PM
To: Steven **
Subject: RE: Invoice from Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd

Hi Steven,

The refund should hit you card at any moment.

Please keep checking your card and resubmit payment for your order.
Thanks Steve.

---
Best,

Andrew
Co-founder
Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd
55 Cavill Avenue, Surfers Paradise, Qld, Australia 4217
+61 (7) 5641-2441
Skype: payonix
sales@payonix.com

On 2013-11-20 18:09, Steven **wrote:
Hi Mate,

I have not received my refund from the first invoice. Can you process
that before issuing a new invoice.

Thanks,

Steven

FROM: Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd [mailto:sales@waveapps.com] ON
BEHALF OF Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd
SENT: Wednesday, 20 November 2013 6:40 PM
TO: ***
SUBJECT: Invoice from Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd

INVOICE #276

issued on Nov. 15, 2013
from Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd

Hi Steve,

Apologies for the mixup. We are reissuing your invoice the the unit
for delivery by December 9th.

Thanks,

Andrew

Due date

2013-11-15

Amount due

$7,499.00

Thanks for your business. If this invoice was sent in error, please
contact SALES@PAYONIX.COM

I still haven't received my refund and have reported him to ASIC and Scamwatch.

I wish I lived in QLD, so I could confront these guys.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for their help.

[smithytzu]

I had an interesting conversation with Adam Nettfold/Andrew/whatever he wants to call himself yesterday, THEY randomly contacted me with this(Start at the bottom, it's an email thread)....

Ben,

We will not reveal the maker of the units as we are getting more for our use.

Orders were deleted online as we were hacked and are being extorted. This has been given to the police as well. We have a backup and have refunded everyone.

Best,

Andrew
Co-founder
Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
Skype: payonix

Best,

Andrew
Co-founder
Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
+61 (7) 5641-2441
Skype: payonix
On 2 Dec 2013, at 2:50 pm, XXXXX Smith <sXXXXXXX@XXXXX> wrote:

> Prove it, who was your Chinese manufacturer? Prove you weren't running a scam.
>
> I know the truth.
>
Ben,

Regardless all information will be handed over, including your emails.

We have not made any money off people that is certain and can happily show the police that as well.

Keane accepted his refund. Our lawyer is looking at it to see if we refund or not. If we do, he will get it.

Best,

Andrew

On 2 Dec 2013, at 2:42 pm, XXXXX Smith <sXXXXXXX@XXXXX> wrote:

> Report whoever the fuck you want, it wasn't me, you'd know it was me if it was.  Sound like you got what you deserved.
>
> I got my money, but you still have committed fraud and I've got a pi thats already collected a shitload on you so you can claim and say whatever you want.
>
> Enjoy spending the extra bitcoins you made off people while you can because it won't last.

> On 02/12/2013, at 2:30 PM, Payonix <sales@payonix.com> wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Just so you know we are about to report it to the police. If it was you, own it and apologise.
>>
>> We have refunded clients except 1 who is waiting for legal to contact them. We haven't made a cent off anyone. The products failed so we refunded the funds.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Andrew
>> Co-founder
>> Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
>> +61 (7) 5641-2441
>> Skype: payonix
>>
>> On 2 Dec 2013, at 2:21 pm, XXXXX Smith <sXXXXXXX@XXXXX> wrote:
>>
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> You should do the right thing and pay back all the money you made off my fellow miners money for a product that never existed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/12/2013, at 1:44 PM, Payonix <sales@payonix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> Do you know a Mario Fannuci?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>> Co-founder
>>>> Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
>>>> Skype: payonix

[smithytzu]

They obviously haven't refunded everyone and if the units were faulty WHY are they purchasing units for themselves???

So many lies, so much BS, BTW just so everyone knows for the record if you want to pay Andrew Thomas(Adam Netffold) a visit/file court notices etc....


https://oevf.aec.gov.au/VerifyEnrolment.aspx
You are enrolled to vote

The details you entered were:
Given names:    ADAM
Family name:    NETTLEFOLD
Street and Locality:    RIVERWALK AVE ROBINA QLD 4226

The electorate you will vote in at each election is listed below:
Federal Division:    MCPHERSON
State District:    MUDGEERABA
Local Government Area:    GOLD COAST CITY
Local Ward/Division:    DIVISION 11



Lesson: Never commit fraud 2 after an election! What an idiot, I'm watching the property to ensure it doesn't suddenly go up for sale or lease.

It's a standard practice for debt collectors to check electoral rolls to find people,  You're not supposed to have them, but people still get hold of them, on top of that, the AEC is nice enough to have an online system like so..


Smithy

[Zelek Uther]

Hi critta,

Sorry to hear that you have been scammed by Payonix.  We believe they are operating an arbitrage-type scam where they take your money, invest it in bitcoin, wait for bitcoin price rise, sell the bitcoin for profit, then return your original money.  It works even better if the victim paid them in bitcoin.  Your money gets tied up for a few weeks, but you get it back in the end (hopefully).  In the meantime you have suffered opportunity loss (you lost the use of your money during that time), and they have profited using your money.

[MonsterCro]

Interesting. So originally the business was registeFraud ito the riverwalk robina adddifficulties under Robert nettlefold who had a broadbeach address anyway and Adams aec address is the riverwalk robina address but Payonix claimed that they had no involvement with Adam nettlefold but they used his address.

Also they still were selling these units and taking orders well after they claimed they had sold out. Sound like nothing dodgy goingon there. And they still can't state the unit they are at 55 cavill ave

And regardless they claimed that had a working test unit that had so many technical difficulties went it went to live demo you still would of posted pics of it anyway to re assure customers you were legit.

But anyway the evidence is to strong against them. Fraud it is.

[JFreak]

There is a possibility to report the SCAM to westpac, where payonix have one ore more bank accounts:
http://www.westpac.com.au/security/fraud-and-scams/reporting-scams/

If you did pay trough wire transfer to a westpac account, report your scam details to hoax@westpac.com.au

[dreamzz]

Anyone got the money back yet? anyone has still an order with them?

[dreamzz]

Anyone see their website has been changed from hardware supply to hosted mining contract

[smithytzu]

Yeah they've obviously brought legit hardware with all the coin they've ripped from us and are now using it to make money through hosting.

Adam Nettfold is a piece of shit.

[JFreak]

Anyone got the money back yet? anyone has still an order with them?

No. Still got no refund! I did buy a mining contract from them, but they didn't answer any mail! 
They've used an anonymous mailbox for communication over their mailcontact form and I was completely surprised as I did see a mail from me and other payonix customers inside this fake mailbox!!! (Have a look to the google cache document that I've posted above!)

I've reported the fraud to my bank and also to the westpac Security Team.

Aha they will relase a new website!

Clients will have access to the hosted mining partition within days! be notified, we just need your e-mail address

Sounds very trustworthy!

[Anddos]

what a bunch of nasty people,someone seriously needs to pay them a visit

[dreamzz]

Who knows what they are doing, I guess we will know that in the coming few days.

[D-Train]

I paid via Paypal and eventually got my money back.

About a week after filing my dispute for refund I got this email from paypal:

Hello <My Name Here>,

The refund sent by Robert Nettlefold (sales@payonix.com) did not clear from the sender's bank. You have not received funds for this payment in your PayPal account.

Please contact Robert Nettlefold regarding this refund.

-----------------------------------
Refund details:
-----------------------------------

Amount: $3,799.00 AUD
Sender: Robert Nettlefold
Sender's email: sales@payonix.com
Transaction ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Transaction date: 18 Nov 2013


Sincerely,

PayPal


Shortly after that email PayPal sent me an email telling me they had retrieved the funds and I should expect them in my account in the next few days, and it eventually came through.

Not sure if it was actually refunded by 'Andrew Thomas/Robert Nettleford' or forcibly refunded by Paypal.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

From their Terms and Conditions:

"2. PAYMENT.
(a) Payments are due in the amounts, in the currency, and at the time stated in the order or confirmation sent by Payonix, or if not so stated: (a) paid Bitcoin, to the account designated by Payonix; (b) within thirty (30) days of date of invoice. If Payonix incurs exchange rate losses due to Buyer’s failure to pay when payments are due, Payonix shall be entitled to equivalent compensation from Buyer for such losses. Payonix is not responsible for pricing, typographical or other errors in any offer by Payonix and reserves the right to cancel any orders arising from such errors.

(b) Interest will accrue on all late payments, at the rate of 18% per annum or the applicable statutory rate, whichever is higher and to the extent permitted by applicable law, from the due date until payment in full. In the event of any default by Buyer in the payment of any fees or charges due, or any other default by Buyer, Payonix shall have the right to refuse delivery of any Products until payments are brought current and Payonix may suspend, delay or cancel any credit, delivery or any other performance by Payonix. Such right shall be in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other rights and remedies available under these Terms or at law or in equity for Buyer’s default."


Now, I'm *not* a contract expert (although I'm undergoing a crash course from a fellow co-op GBC who is also a VP of his own company) but I'd have to say that these payment terms seem to be virtually indistinguishable to a hamfisted prostate massage.

Wait: so you mean I could order in a few weeks, and pay COD when they show up? Sign me up! 

Same as HF's ToS.

[smithytzu]

Just wondering if everyone got their money back off these clowns?

[rdmk]

finally got everything back, I paid 24.1 btc for hosted mining 2 days before the final 'live event'. I actually flew up to surfers for it and stood in the Hilton foyer by myself like a stooge. Next day asked for a refund, 6 weeks and 95 emails later I got it all back (minus 0.14 btc in 'processing fees'). Bit by bit they paid as they were speculating on the markets, there were at least 2 people replying as 'Andrew', one politely keeping the business facade and the other a cocky speculator who overused the word "buddy". They had the coins over the whole crash and basically used us as a free short service. Anyway just glad the ordeal is over.

[cm1223]

Hi Everyone,

I sent 7k to Payonix a few months back and I was promised delivery this month. I was reviewing forums and came across this. My heart sank and now I feel sick.

Can anyone give any advice on what to do? Sadly I paid via bank transfer and not paypal.

Thanks,

Darren

[S4VV4S]

Hi Everyone,

I sent 7k to Payonix a few months back and I was promised delivery this month. I was reviewing forums and came across this. My heart sank and now I feel sick. I pretty much gave this company all my savings and now am shattered.

Can anyone give any advice on what to do? Sadly I paid via bank transfer and not paypal.

Thanks.

Option A: Forget about your money and move on.

Option B: Spend more money to track these clowns and get your money back (maybe)

Option C: Forget about your money, move on and next time be cautious.

[smithytzu]

Hi Everyone,

I sent 7k to Payonix a few months back and I was promised delivery this month. I was reviewing forums and came across this. My heart sank and now I feel sick.

Can anyone give any advice on what to do? Sadly I paid via bank transfer and not paypal.

Thanks,

Darren

Hi Darren,

Sorry to hear your story, bitcoin is a bit of a wild west.

They haven't gone anywhere, they're still physically located on the Gold Coast, nettfold is who you're after, if you're in Australia then you can handle it a few ways...

- file a claim in the small claims court at nettfolds address.
- Also report the matter to fair trading qld, this is not the first time this guy has fucked people over.

- or do what I did, these guys aren't hard crims, their white collar nerds, 7k is a decent bounty to collect, find a guy that'll collect for you, I threatened to have a few friends visit and kept on their butt about it and had my money back quick, they weren't happy with how I handled it, but scum like them deserve nothing less.  They're experts at dodging the law but I bet they can't dodge a fist.

Good luck.

Smithy

[Anddos]

if you paid by bank wire then cant you sort it out with the bank, get the bank to send them a letter?