Bitcoin Forum

### PAYONIX IS A SCAM ###

Check out post #87 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323084.msg3577968#msg3577968

Thanks everyone!! :)

======================

Check out https://payonix.com

Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd is an Australian based company (ACN: 166 546 229) trading without an ABN. The Company was only registered a couple of days ago. They claim to have ASIC mining h\w for sale that will be delivered by December 15th 2013. They are planing on opening a walk-in retail shop in Gold Coast, QLD.

From http://www.asic.gov.au

From http://whois.domaintools.com/payonix.com

So far I cannot find anything to make me confident that Payonix is a legitimate business. I call on the community to verify the business claims and verify it's intentions. i.e. Scam or not.

Can anyone dig up anything on the founders?
Andrew Thomas - Fields of expertise: Cyrptography, Data Mining, Hardware design
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=300154890

Justin Lau - Fields of expertise: Programming, Data Mining, Hardware design, Bitcoin protocol
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=300154890

Can anyone make a visit to their retail location when they advise where it is exactly?

Cheers,
QG

Clear BS they funded 28nm NRE silently??

Let alone under 0.7W/Gh/s please.

seems legit

https://payonix.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56

" You can daisy chain these in a powered USB hub for a mega Asic miner. "

I concur, powered USB hubs can help you daisy chain (sic) a mega Asic (sic) miner.

In their defense: my Cantonese or Mandorin's not so hot either unless you want me to say Happy New Year.

From their Terms and Conditions:

"2. PAYMENT.
(a) Payments are due in the amounts, in the currency, and at the time stated in the order or confirmation sent by Payonix, or if not so stated: (a) paid Bitcoin, to the account designated by Payonix; (b) within thirty (30) days of date of invoice. If Payonix incurs exchange rate losses due to Buyer’s failure to pay when payments are due, Payonix shall be entitled to equivalent compensation from Buyer for such losses. Payonix is not responsible for pricing, typographical or other errors in any offer by Payonix and reserves the right to cancel any orders arising from such errors.

(b) Interest will accrue on all late payments, at the rate of 18% per annum or the applicable statutory rate, whichever is higher and to the extent permitted by applicable law, from the due date until payment in full. In the event of any default by Buyer in the payment of any fees or charges due, or any other default by Buyer, Payonix shall have the right to refuse delivery of any Products until payments are brought current and Payonix may suspend, delay or cancel any credit, delivery or any other performance by Payonix. Such right shall be in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other rights and remedies available under these Terms or at law or in equity for Buyer’s default."


Now, I'm *not* a contract expert (although I'm undergoing a crash course from a fellow co-op GBC who is also a VP of his own company) but I'd have to say that these payment terms seem to be virtually indistinguishable to a hamfisted prostate massage.

Wait: so you mean I could order in a few weeks, and pay COD when they show up? Sign me up!  :D

Thanks for starting this forum relating to our soon-to-ship products.

We do plan on opening a walk-in retail space having just signed a lease for a new space last week. We are currently in an office in Surfers Paradise, and will be moving to Bundall (5kms away) this coming week.

We will also be releasing pictures of our units, cases etc on our Blog mid week. I will update here once we do.

We are in collaboration with 2 factories in China who built our chips and are currently building our units.

Some information about myself (Andrew), Justin and the team.

Me (Andrew): I have been in the Data Mining and Cryptography industry since leaving University. Previously worked with Datamonitor and DataSystems over an 8 year period. My core skills include cryptography, programming, hardware design, and diagnostics.

Justin: Started mining and buying (hoarding) Bitcoin in 2011. Was one of the fortunate few who saw a future in the tech. Justin studied Computer Science at Melbourne University and core skills include everything Bitcoin & Altcoin, Data Mining, Programming, and Hardware design.

We have recently employed a CFO/finance guru, who is also invested in the seed round.

We have 2 dedicated sales & support staff

We guarantee delivery by December 15 2013.


If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us on +61 (7) 5641-2441 or via email through our website. I hope this gives more of an insight into who, where and why.

Just left a request for an interview trough the contact form on your site.

They look serious enough, but don't make us take your pre-order ! Sell only when you have stocks and we need photos and videos

of your hardware. Oh, by the way, we only buy when they are credit cards and paypal available. Who is your Fab in China and your design

house.

Better be $3.00 per gh/s or less to have a decent price point. :)

Hi everyone,

I am doing an interview tomorrow with Andrew of Payonix.
If any of you got any questions you want me to ask him, please let me know.

Roland.

We are pleased to annoice we have added PayPal payments. You can use your PayPal balance or pay using a Credit Card.

Thanks

- Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd

Its good to hear that someone in Aus will be releasing ASIC hardware and is only 1 state away from me.

Personally I think they are just a reseller with a different case using competitor hardware inside, that's my gut feeling at this moment. Also the pricing is way too high, especially litecoin ASIC gear, 10MH for $8000 won't ROI within 12month at all and that's if the difficulty stays static....

I guess will find out within the next week or two when they will showcase a DEMO unit running in the flesh.. gets your cameras/video recorders ready...

EDIT::

"Please note: pictures displayed are for illustration purposes only. We will update the images when we receive them from the manufacturer."

Surely you would know what case you will be using or have designed, how many fans it will use, airflow considerations, psu, etc...  I find it strange that your less than 6 weeks away from full production and you don't even have a prototype pic to show of what it would like like...

I'm not having a go at you and do wish this is all legit as no one else in Aus is offering a local solution.

Agreed Pricing way Too High. Below $3.50per gh for bitcoin mining is what we want.

lulz

We do know these things however will be waiting to release it until our showcase on Thursday. We will post pictures and videos on our blog when we are finished. We are the first company in Australia to offer ASIC miners locally. We are positive customers will be very happy when they see the working unit, and when they receive their unit in the post.

Barntech is Australian and offer asic miners locally so you are not the first.

Right, we stand corrected. Thank-you.

Asic Miner USB's @ $140   ;D  ;D  ;D
 
If you wana be taken seriously you need to stop robbing people.  :o

that price is for 10 units...

$139.99
USB Block Eruptor - 336 Mh/s x 10 - In Stock   This is for ten (10 units) -

 ::) sorry I can't read. lol

I didn't read this either

This ONIX XS rig contains a 250 Gh/s ASIC chip
This ONIX XRS rig contains a 1Th/s (Terrahash/s) ASIC chip

So 2 different chips.... ummm


edit

This ONIX XR rig contains a 500Gh/s ASIC chip

I want to hear more on the

Custom liquid cooling

Address and Time please, I'll see if I can get there.

Each of our chips is 250GH/s. Our ONIX XS unit contains 1 chip. Our ONIX XR unit contains 2 chips. Our ONIX XRS unit contains 4 chips. We will make it clear on our product page.

If you are interested in coming along please enquire through our website: http://www.payonix.com. Thanks

Today is Thursday in Aus, is the SHOW and tell still going ahead today?

Hi! We receive our unit today and will now showcase it tomorrow. We are all very excited to show the world our beast!

Andrew, did you receive only 1 model of the ALTCOIN MINING RIG, if so is it the 1 ,5 or 10MH unit? or maybe all 3??

interesting, but price is a different thing. Good they accept Paypal.

Hi All. Our working demo units (plural for the question above) were held up at Customs in Brisbane. They have now been cleared and will be delivered tomorrow morning.

We are fully verified with PayPal which is great for us and the customer.

$4,299 seems expensive for a 5MH/s LTC miner. Sure it's cheaper than using GPUs but at least they can be repurposed. Is this going to be your final price?

Update from their blog:

We received our working units today. We will be testing over the weekend and have moved our showcase to Tuesday. We will also post to our blog videos and pictures of the units, as well as results. Very exciting time for our company and customers.

Andrew, Today is the day for the big SHOW!!! Looks like you've had the whole weekend and yesterday to test , take pictures and video your miners..

Can we have an update now?

Hi Silkman

Please refer to our blog on updates of testing, pictures and videos release time.

We have been testing the 1TH/s unit. It is very quiet which exceeded expectations. The heat is quite low as well. Conclusive results will be posted over the coming days. We appreciate your patience.

We are still ahead of schedule and will dispatch the units on December 9th.

^^^^Paid shill for KNC^^^^

I read thread approx 25 seconds, alarm bells
if you cant notice anything wrong you deserve to lose your money

We do not appreciate such comments. Many people have worked very hard to bring this solution to users. Wait until you see our units before you make such comments. If you are in Australia feel free to come visit us, see our location and see the working demo's.

So all weeekend testing and big show today and no photos or nothing?

What the hell does big show mean anyway if there's still no updates or nothing to show??

It takes about 2 seconds to take a photo, 5 seconds to upload onto imgur.com, and 5 seconds to paste the link here.

Or better yet. Post a eligius stat page.

I looked at the blog. All I see are photo/demonstration promises and "We have almost sold out of all units. Please make sure to place your order before you miss out!"

Mate you gotta show us something. Anything. Before trying to hawk your product.

And where are you on 55 Cavill Avenue? Which shop listing? 12A 6B 11C 11A????

We are now in our new location in Bundall, near Harvey Norman. If you want to come visit please contact us through our website.

As we have stated, we will release this info once our tests are complete. It is our strategy and what we will stick to.

Go the Aussies!

Thanks!

We are having issues with our server. We are working on the issue and will be back online within a few hours.

Our website and server are now live again. Thank-you for your patience

still haven't uploaded any pics or video yet tho..?

Andrew, what happened to the pictures/video that were supposed to be released yesterday after the show?

Enuff off the bullshit mate, when you say your going to do something, then farken do it and stop beating around the bush. You are your own worst enemy, please read business 101 manual for help.

You could of at least posted a single picture of your devices over the weekend, anything at all?

+1

http://openclipart.org/detail/21256/server-by-buggi-21256

http://openclipart.org/image/250px/svg_to_png/21256/buggi_server_1.png

I'm in Sydney Australia.

What hardware is this based on?

Having a device mining means there is a driver of some sort that will mine on it.

If it isn't cgminer, then what is it? (and what's wrong with it)
If it is cgminer, then it's either a custom driver we've never heard about, or ...

We support drivers we have hardware for - since it's clearly not possible to do that with hardware we don't have.
You can overnight a device to me and I'll verify what it is, that it works and thus that you guys are legitimate.
If it doesn't have a cgminer driver, and you do have the actual hardware specs, I can of course write a driver for it also.

Good find, Tasweb!

Good move kano

+1 send a prototype or production unit to Kano so he can test and verify

My scam radar is off the charts with this one.

Timeline so far.

Registers website Oct31st

Registers ABN/company in November1st (Anyone can register an ABN in Australia. ANYONE).
http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByAbn.aspx?SearchText=67+166+546+229

Registers forum username November1st

Says they've been working on it for months with a factory in China. Say they'll deliver by mid December.
Hooookay. So it seems like NRE/manufacturing costs and all that have already been sorted out.
So who's funding this? VC? Banks? Personal savings? Factory order/chip fab on credit? VC/Banks is pretty much NO since they've only just registered the company over a week ago. So it must be their own money. Few cool million for 28nm. Anyhow don't worry about this funding part. Let's move onto the next one.

There's a phone number listed on the website. When you call it, it's not related to their company. When questioned OP about it, he goes it's not their number but an associates of theirs. Right. So when they did the maintenance last night (moving their web host to powweb.com - which is $3.88 a month for all the basics - what professional company does this??? anyhow...), on the maint temp page, that number yet again was listed "Sorry guys. Currently doing server maint. Will be back up 8AM AEST. <insert phone number here>". Wait. Didn't they say it's not theirs? So why list it again on the maint temp page?

And they said there would be a big show on Thursday but it was canceled coz the miner is stuck in customs. But hey guys. Order our miners! So they got it delivered on Friday afternoon. A sample unit. All the way from China. Think about that for a second. And they had 3 days to play around with it and no photos/details/stats were shown. They said Tuesday would be the "big show" day. So Tuesday rolls by. Nothing happens. But hey guys. Order miners! Almost sold out. So what the fuck is big show day anyway? Don't think anyone attended otherwise information would be out everywhere.

So when called out on their bullshit. They say to visit their address which has a working unit (address is listed on the website). Hoookay. So what's at 55 Cavill Ave, QLD? It's a bloody shopping centre. Supermarkets/eateries/restaurants. So when called out about that. They say that they've moved to a new address and you will need to contact them to get it. Doubt they'll be telling anyone their 'new' address. The old address is still listed on the website.

And when reading their blog posts, all you see are "photos are coming!" etc type posts and "units nearly all sold out. buy now!!". If that's not alarming enough. Let's go to the biggest red flag. They insist that they are Paypal verified and that they also accept credit cards, bitcoins and bank transfers.

Well guess what? Try adding a miner to the shopping cart and try to check out. No paypal or credit card as payment method available. What a surprise!! All you see is "Bitcoin (coinbase)" and "Bank transfer" (which they don't even give the details to - I'm sure if you attempted to use this method, they wouldn't even reply back to you).

TL;DR No phone number. No physical address. No names (He says he is Andrew Thomas - I say he is not). No technical details. No safe payment methods (Paypal, credit card). No photos/stats/details. The only photos on the site are cliparts. CGminer dev also never heard of them. Actually nobody has heard of them.

Current Plasmo Scam Score: 10/10.

If I'm wrong, no problems. I'll accept that but so far, no evidence to prove you guys are legit. Feel free to provide evidence to show otherwise. Hopefully you guys are legit as  I'd love to see an Australian ASIC company.

I would say, give them a benefit of doubt.  The voice mail voice sounds people with Chinese accent.  If they have the Chinese Connection, it's possible they may have the unites in production in China, importing them to AU to sell.

If this was a scam, well thought process.  Register a business, looking for a place to rent and setup an e-commerce site (which is not too hard to do).

Renting the retail space is not so cheap and many basement/garage startup use rental address or friends or family business address to initially register the company then, as they succeed, those companies may justify getting their own space.   If this company was the VC funded project, then they should have a public office or the retail space somewhere but if a few people came up with the idea and personal/family funding, it really could be a small operation but trying to do a legit On-Hand Sales rather than the Risky Pre-Orders

I left them a voice mail.  I'll see if I can contact them.  If all things work out, I may go visit them or the other local guy can go visit to confirm.

I've dealt with Andrew a few times over the phone. He has always called back (even at 10pm AEST).
I'm one of the people who purchased multiple devices through Payonix AND received re-imbursement via the affiliate system they have in place (yes, credit back to my BTC wallet - WITH confirmations).
I find it hard to believe that scammers would go to so much effort, including offering credit back to those people signing others up.
That being said.. myself and my two investors would very much like to see some specifications of the hardware.

I'd suggest those people who are unsure of them to call them, or visit them. Speak to them over the phone or in person and make your own judgement.
Until I have some valid proof to prove me otherwise, I'm saying they're a genuine business (without much business experience).
I've been there and done that, so I know what's involved.

You know a smart scammer would actually do just that. Offer an affiliate program to help bring in more victims. And pay the person that helps them. Thus creating legitimacy.

Now this person that helped to bring in more victims would go around telling others, GUYS THESE GUYS ARE LEGIT - THEY PAID ME, thus bringing more helper to bring in more victims. This is the oldest trick in the book.

Haven't seen any proof so far but yeah, I'm still open minded about it. Just somewhat skeptical.

We are releasing photos tomorrow of the units. It is impossible to monitor all forums and reply to every bit of skepticism. All we ask is for you to wait and see our product before you label us. We state quite clearly the pictures on our sites are for illustration purposes only. Our full unit will be shown tomorrow. Thanks and excited for everyone to see.

Thanks Andrew Thomas. Looking forward to see what you have to show us tomorrow.

Your welcome. You will/should all be happy with the look, size, and inside of the units.

I spoke with someone from Payonix today, and they said they have 3 units mining at the moment at 1.5 TH using cgminer
The Payonix person said they reverse engineered an ASIC in may and now have a 28nm chip, and will be sending the units out on the 9th of December.
Apparently they only have 3 units left out of 250..... hmmmm and photos plus video "tomorrow"

Has anyone gone up to the Gold Coast to check these guys out and see the hashing hardware?

If kano vouches for it, that's credibility enough for me.  

OK, that's a bit questionable.

Firstly, there were no 28nm Bitcoin ASICs in May.
The only obvious 28nm ASIC that was being designed in May was the KnC ASIC.

Secondly the only ASIC that exists on the market today (and has only for a short while) that can do anything close to 250GH/s per chip is the KnC ... that does something like ~130GH/s per chip.

Thirdly, again, we have no knowledge of any such cgminer driver.

There is one available 28nm ASIC driver in cgminer, the KnC driver.

There is also a soon to be released 28nm ASIC that has a driver already in cgminer written by ckolivas - HashFast.
I'm currently working on another one ... and I think ckolivas is also.
None of these three would be relevant since the companies themselves have yet to release their hardware.

I guess tomorrow may shed some light, but ...

Dont know if this has been mentioned but Roland did an interview with Andrew last week. (seems genuine enough to me)

http://tinyurl.com/pmg3uy3

Yes I too have listened to the YouTube audio interview.

Anyway, if they do send me a device, and it works and it isn't simply a KnC or HashFast, I'll personally fly myself to QLD - not that expensive, about 1 or 2BTC at the moment :) - and see for my own eyes that they are producing and shipping the device they sent me.

If it is a HashFast, then there is the question of the stock they can get and if they can get 250 of them ...

Edit: though there is someone I could ask about this ...

Edit2: I will add one more interesting note :) I have a family full of lawyers ... including the fact that my uncle was the Attorney General of Queensland, where these guys are, a while back. So no doubt I could find the appropriate people to contact if there was a problem here :D

Contact page is missing the security picture:

https://payonix.com/index.php?route=information/contact

Can you post an email address?

Thanks for alerting us to that. We will fix it ASAP.

sales@payonix.com is the best way to contact us, or via telephone during business hours.

Firstly, I'll say thanks to someone I'll avoid naming who paid to get this information!

The information is from Australian Securities and Investments Commission ..... ASIC :)

Name: PAYONIX TECHNOLOGIES PTY. LTD.
ACN: 166 546 229
ABN: 67166546229
Registered in: Queensland
Registration date: 31/10/2013
Next review date: 31/10/2014
Name start date: 31/10/2013
Status: Registered
Company type: Australian Proprietary Company
Class: Limited By Shares
Subclass: Proprietary Company

The 100% shareholder is: ROBERT NETTLEFOLD
Address: (I've not posted it here, but I do have it)

Date received: 31/10/2013
Form type:  201C Application For Registration As A Proprietary Company
Date processed:  31/10/2013
Number of pages:  3
Effective date:  31/10/2013
Document number:  1E9933895

If it is indeed HashFast hardware (we may find out tomorrow?) I'll contact HashFast and find out if they'll provide any information regarding what the deal is.

Who is Robert Nettlefold?

I thought it was just "Andrew Thomas" and "Justin Wu". I mean "Lau".

If it is indeed Hashfast. I'll be very bloody surprised as their story is completely different to Hashfast's ("we reversed engineered an ASIC chip back in April"...etc).

Talked with them earlier. They say their miner has USB and ethernet ports. USB is for plugging to a computer. As it won't be a standalone miner at the start... Interestingly enough, they say that in a future firmware update, they will enable it so one can standalone mine using a raspberrypi tucked inside. HMMMMM

Also Payonix states their chips are 250GH/s while Hashfast is 400GH/s each (and able to breakdown into 100GH/s chip). So that doesn't add up also.

Just find it really hard to believe it would be hashfast chips.

Actually thinking again. It would be impossible. Hashfast just only got their wafer in their hands today days ago. And they're not even sliced/packaged up yet. Meanwhile Payonix is claiming to have the unit since Friday and hashing away with no issues. So most definitely not a hashfast chip.

So it's something else. We'll have to find out tomorrow. Hopefully they clear everything up.

There's too many things that don't add up.

I'm no engineer, but is this even possible?  At best it sounds like "We stole another company's IP and are selling copies of their chip" 

It is possible but it takes time and yes it is basically stealing someone's (in this case with bitcoin asic chips) incredibly hard work

I agree, except that the current available hardware, KnC is about half the speed they are saying, it doesn't match KnC.
So I'm just guessing at what it could be, and next in line is HasFast.
... and according to the HashFast blog they got silicon on Nov 8.
https://hashfast.com/silicon-in-silicon-valley/

I see there is still no paypal/credit card option in the checkout.
@Andrew Thomas: Can someone from this forum call in and observe your demo units in operation?

Interesting, the site now says they sold out

250 of them is, obviously, > $1mil

Still no demo ...

Typical scam. Now they disappear ::)

If they are legit then I'm going to fly up to the Gold Coast when they have a store and rob them.

I was able to pre-order one of their 500Gh/s miners via paypal about 2 weeks ago, the paypal link was there and it worked for me.  I'm very keen to see some pics and demo's of their actual product.  A friend of mine has spoken numerous times with Andrew and he does seem like a nice and reasonable guy.  The posts I see on here do make me a little concerned though.

I have also 2 units pre ordered and paid via visa. These forums are a bit of a concern but I'm really hoping its all good

hahahahaha, All sold out how convenient for them, today is Thursday and NO DEMO to show..

Give me a break, 250 units sold out within days of website being online is a farken stretch... and not 1 picture to show for?

According to their blog PAYPAL is working again, too bad all 250 are sold out so I can't get protection now..And I bet once Batch 2 is up for sale then PAYPAL with NOT WORK again.

Batch 2 Information

We are getting many calls and emails about our 2nd batch. We will not be releasing information until the 1st batch has been delivered to all clients. Our 2nd batch will be larger units with different pricing, and will not ship until Feb 2014.

LOL Kinda reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eF6FSdur8k

Has anyone ordered units besides accounts registered in the last few days?

..


Shill / Sock Puppet ALERT!!!
HAHAHHAHAHA, this is getting even better, 2 NEW accounts created on the same day ( November 13 ) with only 1-2 post each have purchased from these guys


EDIT:

For some reason their whole "ASIC - ALT COINS" lineup of 1/5/10MH have disappeared. Dammm I wanted to mine Litecoins...

Probably because people who ordered are now getting concerned and finding this thread at the top of the list when they google search Payonix  ???

Yeah its a risk, no greater than pre ordering from overseas either, but Im giving it a go, and I have protection from my credit card if it doesn't work out. Benefit of the doubt I guess, I suppose I can be laughed at but if it pays off it would be good for me

Hmm the domain has the registration details protected ...

The domain SOA says:

;; ANSWER SECTION:
payonix.com.      86400   IN   SOA   ns1.payonix.com. anettlefold.gmail.com. 2013111203 86400 7200 3600000 86400

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
payonix.com.      67283   IN   NS   ns1.payonix.com.
payonix.com.      67283   IN   NS   ns2.payonix.com.

i.e. anettlefold@gmail.com

That would be odd if the 'a' stood for ... Andrew ...

Edit: it's now 6pm AEST ... still no demo
So this is the 3rd demo they've missed in a bit over a week ...

Kano, we would like to offer you the chance to test our unit. Where are you located? Willing to fly you up to meet, test etc. You seem to have clout on these forums. Please send an email through our contact page.

First picture has gone live. We will post more over the next 3 weeks.

To those who keep saying we are a scam. Please give us a call and come see us. Other customers have met with us and we are meeting with more on Monday. Please do not simply label us a scam without knowing or meeting us. We have a set plan, we are sticking to it regardless of pressure. Our units will be delivered from December 9th. If you were scammed by TerraHash or someone else, please do not take that out on us.

Robert is a member of the team (investor) who conducted the registration.

If you have questions, PLEASE call or email us. We do not sit on here we are far too busy at the moment.

We see NULL and remain unconvinced

That shows, whoever made the site didn't want other to know or trace them but that is not unusual for the business.  Large International Corporations are more into doing the same practice.  (Doesn't mean they are shady.  It's their Risk Management Practice)

At least the web hosting is from IL, USA.  Scamers don't like to use Paid American Servers.

Selling out the 250 unites is possible due to the very high demand world-wide.  It may not got sold out in 24 hours but in the last several days, that's a very possible sales number.

I would say, anyone who has doubt to contact Andrew and make the decision on his/her own.  

I don't have a crystal ball, but I have a gut feeling that a few people may be smiling on the New Years Eve into the New Year for be able to meet the ROI with current uptrend of the BTC Value.

I'm planning a ASIC Myth Buster Trips, If I could confirm, I will be happy to announce it here.  

Also, I did speak with Andrew.  He is not hiding but he is simply being very busy with this project.

Good Luck to All!

Hey, if any one can donate any BTC, it will help me get there sooner in AU...  I may be able to bust the Myth for you guys!!  3 BTC will help me get there and fly out.

1AHNusc3BQA2QJCokySAQ1Qtymr1ZyAG6P

Our units were not seized at Customs - there was a delay in getting them out by the agent.

We are registering IP which is the reason we can not release more pictures. These are internal decisions.

Yes we host our website in the US. The company we choose to host with is fantastic.

We are fixing the picture issue now.

Well, allegedly this is all Australian so you won't mind if I speak like a fellow Australian.

That blurry photo of some regular Lian Li PC case is the most fucked up the arse excuse for a first look at hardware I've ever seen. My kids take better pics with their toy cameras and I'm now less convinced than ever.

We are working on fixing the image. We will pull it down.

Where's the picture on the blog? There's nothing.

https://payonix.com/index.php?route=pavblog/blog&id=33

Also looked at the HTML source code. There's no hidden pictures anywhere.

And wat the f is this? Just a picture only (actually no picture)? Where's the stats, videos, PCB layout, chips and all?

I mean any doofus could buy a Lian Li case and put some water cooling in there with a raspberry PI hanging out the side.


The A seems to stand for Adam. How would I know? Seems like he is a known scam/con artist and has been around for quite a bit.

My google-fu shows that he's been into e-gold and the likes since 2005. He's also scammed a few people in the process.

Here's some alarming finds.


http://odigger.com/topic/be-aware-these-ad-networks-ubudigital-and-adcolt/








https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/ubudigital-cpm-network-review.2113739/page-43

So looking at the adcolt.com whois. shows that it's using POWWEB.COM as their host. Guess who else uses POWWEB.COM as their host? You got it. Payonix. What a coincidence!! Now how the hell did I find that out? Well the other day when he was doing maint, I saw it load up for one second also with the powweb ssl cert. Well it seems like now he's migrated servers from powweb to some other. I think vpscheap.net - and now has his own dedicated IP. Trying to cover his tracks I guess.

So who is Robert Nettlefold? Most likely his brother or father. Stole documents off them so he can register up his own business/domain. But there's also a chance it's a non existent person since he is a master of forgery.

Managed to find out where the real Andrew Thomas lives. And he's not Andrew Thomas by the way. He's Adam Nettlefold.

Adam Nettlefold (anettlefold@gmail.com)
20 Campelles Ave, Varsity Lakes, Queensland, Australia

Coincidence that the real anettlefold lives only 15mins from Bundall (their supposedly new office location)? I think not!

FAAAAAKE!

This is not us. That person does NOT work for our company. If you receive contact from that person purporting to be a representative of our company, please contact us immediately. If you have questions please call us or come visit us.

What is your address for your new office location?

You seem to be updating the website a lot yet the address listed on the website is still the old one. You claimed to have already moved to Bundall so what's the address for it?

By the way, I was "ken" the other day who contacted you and acting as a supposedly interested buyer. Mate. You're so full of shit.

Get this. The miner has a usb and needs a laptop/pc in-order to use it. Miner also has a ethernet port. And a raspberry pi inside.

Tell me if that makes any sense.

And fucking lolz at the latest blog update. So they deleted their earlier post and posted a new one.

"Issues with Blog Module & Pictures". LOL

Must be ASIC 3.0. Even has PCI-slots now. Makes for easier upgrade installation to get em extra gigahashes.

Please come visit us. You will meet myself, the team and see our demos. We are not a scam, have a real product and the world will see soon enough.

You guys here are quite brutal here. We removed the blog entry as it didn't look right. It will be back up. We cannot seem to win here.

Connect your miner to Eligius. Post the stats link HERE in this thread.

Also change the eligius nickname to Payonix and sign it.

At least that might give you a little credibility. You claim to have 1.5TH/s working there all weekend?

Now's the time to prove that.

I would say, for now, let's stop calling them SCAM.  Every business has their plan and model.  Also, if the investors are involved, the restrictions can be even tougher within.  

Since the initial sales are done, lets shit back and wait and see.  Enough people call them scam, so if they are, enough warning were posted on the forum.

When Payonix is ready to release more photos or additional info, they will do so.  No one can force them to give up their business secret or whatever the reasons they decide to keep it secret for now.

There were a few ASIC companies in USA this year alone didn't release much info but they do exist and in the process of getting the miners.  (some may went belly up or caused lots of pain to many but let's watch, what info they will release in the near future!)

Food for the Thought:  Competitors are stealing each other's secret to advance.  Competitions are getting harder.  If they are working on the new technologies, it they may have the VALID REASONS to keep thing secret to succeed before things are stolen from them.

Also, if I have the machine hashing out 1.5TH/S right now I don't want people to know where it is... 

CEO/CTO may had a good intentions but chip delays from China seem to be the big problem for everyone including the Chinese Companies.

Mate you keep telling us that and we keep asking, "What's your address?" You said you moved so where is it now?

Great idea. We will do this and post stats link for people to see and verify.

Looking forward to it.

If you have hardware that you were going to demo last week, but got last weekend and it is working, why is there no conclusive proof of it?

The brutality comes from the fact that the hardware you say was already hashing fine and have now sold something of the order of $1mill dollars worth in pre-orders, you are still unable to produce a reasonable picture of it or any details of it mining.
Go down to Vodafone, sign up for a $30 a month plan, and they will give you an android phone that can take good quality pictures and videos.
I can afford one of these for my daughter and I certianly do not have $1mil in preorders (my phone is more expensive, it costs me $60 a month :P)

The closest Vodafone shop to Robert's house is here:
https://plus.google.com/100823436843011950100/about?gl=au&hl=en

By the way, did David go to Central Queensland University?

cgminer is written by ckolivas above and myself.
We know what information it will produce and how to get information out of it.
You have claimed that our miner works with your hardware - so if that claim is true, there is absolutely no reason to not provide the cgminer mining information in screen shots, API access, miner.php access etc.
Hell I can tell you exactly how to get information out of the cgminer API as pretty much anyone who knows what they are doing mining with cgminer (I wrote the API :P)

So at this point, no I'm not really that interested in flying to Queensland and visiting half my family, I am wondering why you have already stated you have working hardware, that uses cgminer, and have nothing to show for it.

Edit: put a wrong name above - fixed.

We are still at 55 Cavill Ave. We are waiting for the office to be fitted at Bundall location (Cnr Bundall Rd and Slatyer Ave - the big blue ANZ tower). Would you like to come for an appointment to see and test the units and report your feedback? If so, PM or call and we can get you in ASAP.

We will provide stats through Eligius and post the link once we connect it. We are off for the night. Support will be online until 9pm AEST tonight.

We do not know that person. How can we defend ourselves to that? Impossible. All we can do is take it I guess.

All you have are a lot of words, a blurry pic of a computer (with pci slots, ram slots, non-water cooling setup, SSD with sata cables) and promises to show
Eligius stats, office visits and everything else in between. And then nothing else. Absolutely nothing else. Nothing technical at all. Not even a photo of PCB or office or staff or even your face. It's not impossible to prove that you have a miner. It's actually quite easy if you know what the hell you're doing.

Your photos are even more shitty. Did you use a potato to take those shots? And then went ahead, added blur filter and resized it down so we can't see shit?
I didn't even knew that photos came in those sizes. Do you have the original sizes?

"Would you like to come for an appointment to see and test the units and report your feedback?"

No because I'll most likely get jumped and silenced.

Again more beating around the bush and delay tactics. Don't worry mate. I already expected that you won't have any stats tonight. Or ever.

As I already corrected above (before you replied), I meant Robert, the guy who own 100% of payonix, should get a phone and use that to take pictures and videos of the miner that's been mining for almost a week now.

For now, let's give Payonix a break!

We can bark all we want but that's not going to change anything.  If he was the scammer, he would be gone wrong time ago and came back with a new website, new phone number and new username.  This company is still using the same and staying here with the same username even people accused them of a possible scam.

When they are ready, they will release the info.  Like the store in USA, "No Shirt, No Service."  This company is going for "No Photo" policy for now, so let's respect that.  

This forum is not to bash new business or new members but to further everyone's well-being by sharing information!  So let's use our energy to something more positive!  (We could be making small profits by trading BTC's up/down)

Thankyou Sushi.

We will connect to Eligius TONIGHT and post the results link from Eligius.

Sorry this is complete rubbish.
They said they had hardware already and they said it's been mining for quite a while.
They also said they would demo it 3 times so far and failed each time.

It's not a "No Photo" policy.

Your account was created after they "launched" ...

Thankyou for what?
That he said the exact opposite of what you have been saying ... 3 time so far ... to do a demo?

He is coming for a demo, will take over the unit for 24 hours and post the results himself. Kano, we did offer you the same option.

We were thanking him for standing up for us. These forums are quite brutal at times.

We will update again once we have connected to Eligius and have a link to post for verification.

Sushi, you may want to tell them what you do for a living :) and your ethnicity.

It is good to be cautious, we support that! Especially in an industry that is so underground. However, you are way off the mark with us and Sushi.

That's about 5 minutes effort.
http://eligius.st/~gateway/

You did say you all have been in bitcoin for a while, so you should be able to do that ...

Wow! Ok that is officially it for us on this forum. We will not tolerate this kind of talk about us and going so far as to say we will end up in a "boot". Im sorry but you are wrong about us, who you think we are. We wish you all good luck and keep an eye out for our units. They deliver on December 9th 2013.

Bitcoin in not an underground industry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_economy

It is far from that.
Please read up about bitcoin, it would seem you don't know much about it.
http://bitcoin.org/

No eligius stats delivered again. What a surprise. NOT!!!!

Trying to beat around the bush and pull off delay tactics.

 It's 100% scam.

Anyone who ordered, I would contact your bank, paypal, credit card provider or whatever to try do a chargeback.
Adam will try to stall stall stall and try to make it go past the chargeback date. Don't fall for that bullshit.

Hang on, I completely missed this comment about anettlefold@gmail.com

What are you talking about here?

That email address is the SOA email address on the payonix.com domain.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/163971

Why would you use his email address on the payonix.com domain if

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Sushi shill. Andrew Thomas. Adam Nettlefold and scammer.

No miner for Kano. lol.

Case closed.

Hey,

easy!!!  Sushi has nothing to do with any of the ASIC Miner Companies!!!!

I'm taking a risk of losing the airfair and time... 

To be fair, a lot of South East Asian cultures often talk about themselves in the 3rd person.

I shouldn't be wasting my time replying to this SCAM but for some reason this thread is very entertaining, time to break out the popcorn..

thanks to "plasmoske" and his brillant detective work and Kano as well, I'm calling this a SCAM, fark me trying to pass off a standard PC setup as an ASIC...... SHOW ME THE DEMO, God Dammit!!



Please close thread as its all over for you.

Payonix = wolf in sheep's clothing

https://i.imgur.com/v5orVIf.jpg (http://imgur.com/v5orVIf)

feeding off their hopes

true parasites,

may fit right in with yifu / ngzangs data-harvesting gig

He is allot worse than Master Yifu, at least he actually had hardware and delivered, too bad he mined the shit out off them before shipping them, he just forgot to DUST them out from the long term mining, I mean Burn in test...

"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," says Templeton. "Evolutionary history is the key to understanding race, and new molecular biology techniques offer so much on recent evolutionary history. I wanted to bring some objectivity to the topic. This very objective analysis shows the outcome is not even a close call: There's nothing even like a really distinct subdivision of humanity." - Alan R. Templeton, Ph.D., professor of biology in Arts and Sciences at Washington University

How does one determine if a cultural, political and economic demographic within any society is "much more sociopathic"?

Where is there any evidence to support that claim? http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828?tag=vglnkc3725-20 Might want to read this book Edgar... and are you part of the 4% of Australians or Canadians, or Americans or Japanese or... that are sociopaths? See where I am going with this... 4% of the TOTAL human population.

Psychologist Martha Stout – who – clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School for 25 years – estimates in her book The Sociopath Next Door that as many as 4% of the population are conscienceless sociopaths who have no empathy or affectionate feelings for humans or animals.

Undoubtedly many a scammer are sociopaths. Inaba, Andrew and a few others... Yifu? Maybe.

fair play, but in MY EXPERIENCE, asians are more likely to SHOW their lack of empathy/care/genuine regard

I have lost count of the number of strangers lives i have attempted to save, merely for being 'there' at that time - NEVER have i seen an asian 'lend a hand' unless there is a camera crew or an obvious reward. when there is an accident, lives are at risk and need to be protected, asians do not see life in this way - 'things are how they are, its not my business'

whereas a non asian sociopath would perhaps tend to mask it with fake consideration.(the wolf in sheeps clothing)

perhaps this is the opposite end of the spectrum where we do as much as we can because we hope that we would receive the same consideration..?

Only in asia have i seen SUCH disregard for life, though i wont deny that all 'races' have their selfish, greedy monsters

now how about those hashing stats?

Your experience is unlikely a fair measure of the whole ASIAN population on this planet would you not agree?

"Prejudice is a baseless and usually negative attitude toward members of a group. Common features of prejudice include negative feelings, stereotyped beliefs, and a tendency to discriminate against members of the group. While specific definitions of prejudice given by social scientists often differ, most agree that it involves prejudgments (usually negative) about members of a group."

Your statements are prejudice and baseless. Your personal observations say more about you as human being than it does of Asians. As for not seeing disregard for life outside Asia then you are not looking hard enough. Might want to wax poetic on race in your own mind because that is probably the only place the statements you are making are valid.


In 2013 one should expect scammers in Bitcointalk but not racism surely?

Andrew, we are waiting for the stats, if you need help go here:

http://www.adobe.com/Photoshop

Doesn't look good for payonix. Myself included.

Hey, easy man...

I was talking in 3rd...  

I'm trying to look into this.  Either way, i will update you but if I was right, can you guys donate 3BTC to cover the expense?  That's after I make it there and login with my BTCGUILD Account. I'm hoping to take a good look at the system.

Soon as you REDACT the racist comments sure.

Why shouldn't scammers get a pass? Cause it is WRONG.
Why shouldn't racism get a pass? Cause it is WRONG.

Next time keep your slurs to yourself and you won't need to be edmucated by me.

Your EXPERIENCE is pure unadulterated bullshit as it has no basis in fact. I am calling you out on it cause it is BASELESS.


Ways to Reduce Prejudice

In addition to looking at the reasons why prejudice occurs, researchers have also explored different ways that prejudice can be reduced or even eliminated. Training people to become more empathetic to members of other groups is one method that has shown considerable success. By imaging themselves in the same situation, people are able to think about how they would react and gain a greater understanding of other people's actions.

Other techniques that are used to reduce prejudice include:

Passing laws and regulations that require fair and equal treatment for all groups of people.

Gaining public support and awareness for anti-prejudice social norms.

Making people aware of the inconsistencies in their own beliefs. You are welcome Edgar.

Increased contact with members of other social groups.


http://www.janeelliott.com/ <--- Might want to take her program Edgar could be helpful.

Yep might have egg on my face

Might have to visit there shop front and have a look

meh. facts are facts.

i know what i live, you're free to know what you've read.

come to asia and see how we live, why theres no such thing as a public ambulance or national health care.

why the road traffic accident toll is what it is. why the avoidable death toll is what it is.

i wasnt being racist, i removed a fact from my post to avoid being called a racist by book edumacated judges.

(south east) asians ARE known for referring to themselves in the 3rd person. AS ARE SOCIOPATHS.

and presumably psychopaths, but i really do not know so will not speculate.

im all for education, but not when its forced or from an inaccurate perspective.

that could be worse than saying nothing

edit - if my personal experiences are baseless, then your opinion is worthless to learn from.

im legit, come & check us out!

Meh I go away for a while and come back and find you've turned it into a racist argument.

Please, can you leave that out of this.

Your posts are actually worthy of being deleted and I've asked a forum moderator to do so.

ckolivas comment is quite accurate.
e.g. if you listen to a Japanese person talking they will often refer to themselves by name in the conversation, rather than 'me' or similar words.
When an English speaking person hears this, it seems quite strange.
It's simply a language observation and thus could be applied to the reason behind sushi's wording.

as you wish, i stand by my statements - not in the least intended as racial slurs.

but fully welcome to accepting mob rule that the facts i stated are in fact whatever the mob says they are/are not.

https://i.imgur.com/sLcbWjq.png

hashing stats??

http://www.janeelliott.com/commitment.htm <--- Edgar take the Commitment To Combat Racism with me.

Brief story how Adam Nettlefold scammed my family | adamjnettlefold
adamjnettlefold.wordpress.com/.../brief-story-how-adam-nettlefold-scamme...
Sep 8, 2013 - Adam Nettlefold moves back to Australia, restricts communication to email only. Slowly the truth starts coming out: there was never a contract ...

Robert nettlefold is Adam nettlefolds brother who also has a brother Paul. There is a pic of them all in the article. If a visit is made to payonix I guess you can match the pic for proof

So, what we going to do?

We need to get him into a cell. 

Do we have any resources to make that happen?

Can anyone get access to the linked in image for Andrew Thomas?
https://payonix.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=4

I don't have a linked in account (and don't really want an account where the site wants your email and password from other places ...)
So I created a simple one and it requires way too much before I can get at the linked in link.

http://m2.c.lnkd.licdn.com/media/p/1/005/01f/331/3087664.jpg That is the image from the linked in page http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=300154890 (http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=300154890) . I have also taken a screen shot of his profile page in case he changes the picture. If you do a image search on google using that image it takes you to this page www.quaydental.com.au/index.php/about-us/ourteam/dr-andrew-harrold (http://www.quaydental.com.au/index.php/about-us/ourteam/dr-andrew-harrold)

The payonix thing is a scam for sure.

Should be an interesting Monday with the live Demo then, Lets hope there is no technical difficulties

Yup it's a scam. Fake LinkedIns.

I can already tell what their next moves will be.

1. "Prove" their unit is working to his victims. Most likely video with a fake cgmimer. Easy to pull off.

2. As the delivery date comes near. Say that the chinese manufacturer is lacking the required parts and could be delayed by 2-3 weeks.

3. Ofcourse by now its xmas, new years and china doesn't work for 2 weeks

4. say the miners have been shipped to Australia

5. then announce that they are stuck in customs and could take 2-3 days

6. say that customs have rejected those miner due to non CE certification. Check their miner specs page. States they are no CE certified. Or it'll be another reason why it was rejected. He'll have some forged customs paperwork to show to his victims.

7. By now people would be asking for refunds and he will "agree" to it.

8. he will actually pretend to send the refunds and forged some paperwork to prove it. Dear Ken Masters, you have received the amount of $5600.56 in your account. Due to suspicion of the origins of the funds, the bank will temporarily hold the funds for up to 14 days. Once determined, it will be released into your account. Or something aling those lines :-P I'll have read from some of his victims post. And yes he has done this before. Forged commonwealth bank letters.

Basically there will be stalling and a lot of lies.
http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/scamHaveYouBeenScammed/#h2_18

After that, he will close the phone lines, email, website and go into hiding.

Well that sorta sounds like
http://adamjnettlefold.wordpress.com/about/
(as mentioned further up)

Meanwhile ... Blog
Friday 15-Nov
Phone Line Issues
2:33pm AEST: We are experiancing intermittent phone disruption.

... well that's interesting ... what's the next problem gonna be? Email server failed? :P

Edit: and I don't understand why they have not done the Eligius test yet.
It only takes a few minutes to point a miner at Eligius ... unless they don't know what they are doing and this page is a lie about mining for ~2 years already:
https://payonix.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=4

This should prove to be most interesting ;D

I have a function is Queensland tomorrow not to far from Payonix, I will stay for Monday and go and watch this live demo in person. Should be interesting indeed. I wonder if they will allow photos to be taken?

Well if you do - make sure they point it at Eligius and mine there.

I'll ask the Eligius pool operator to verify the results also.

There also is no reason to not do this and no reason to do any other pool/solo/whatever.

Andrew Thomas did work "with" Datamonitor. He is an investment banker and Managing Director of Rothschild who gave financial advice to Datamonitor and assisted with some company takeovers. That is very different to the cryptography work that our Andrew Thomas said he did with Datamonitor. Of course this may be a coincidence and there may have been two Andrew Thomas's involved with Datamonitor?

http://bit.ly/18bGo1e

Anyone notice that the Payonix Facebook site has had 2322 likes in only a few weeks?

https://www.facebook.com/payonix/likes

Seems Payonix may be a bit pissed about having lost $5000 worth of BTC in a Coinbase hack?

https://twitter.com/payonix

It's simple. Because they don't have any 1.5TH/s miner in their hands. Hence why he's resorting to other types of non-provable means of demonstration like photos and videos.

And the only "evidence" that they had were only 2 photos which were so bad. A shot of a blurry computer case and a shot of the internals (which looks exactly like a regular pc motherboard, with ram slots visible and even an SSD connected via red sata cables. also no water cooling to be seen). All in the quality size of about 300x300pixels. lol.

I can't believe people would even would to go to his store (if there is actually even one) to check it out.

Here's a hint for you to the people who are interested to go that address listed on the website. 55 Cavill ave is a shopping strip/centre. So there isn't exactly a 55 Cavill ave store. There's about 100 different stores there. And they're all full of restaurants, clothes clothes and eateries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavill_Avenue

http://www.menufeast.com.au/info/2845/kamikaze-teppanyaki/surfers-paradise/
http://www.menufeast.com.au/info/16113/the-pacino-pizze-vino/surfers-paradise/
http://www.pieface.com.au/franchise/stores/pie-face-circle-on-cavill/
http://www.downunderonline.com/dining_Surfers_Paradise.htm >  minus 5° Ice Lounge

And many others.

So if you're planning to just stroll by and check out the store. Don't bother. You'll need to contact the scammer first for the shop/store number (eg. 53A 15B 38A etc).
Here's a hint. He most likely won't give it to you ::)

Ok, I will request them to point to Eligius, unless they have a reason they cant but should be interesting to see what happens.

Don't forget they have the 1 hour of Q&A as they stated, lets see if that happens.

I'm also going to the bundall site to see if there is a shopfront underway there also. can take some pics.

Whats to stop them pointing anyone else's miner at Eligius and pretending its theirs?

What if they've got 3 KnCMiner boxes in the other room, and the sum total of those is 1.5 TH.. and they point them all to the same address at Eligius?  won't the results look the same as if they had their own 1.5 TH miner running in front of you?

simply... yes

What's their bundall address? I've asked for this many times and they haven't given it out. Are you a shill/sockpuppet sir?

Seriously I don't trust any new members going to a scam store to do a legit test (especially from a member who is only 2 days old).

Betcha next few days you come back and say "Guys. They're legit. I saw that they connected to Eligius! Stop the chargebacks/contacting the banks/police and just wait! (... so the scammers can run off with your money ::) )"

The evidence has all been shown here already and yet MonsterCro still seems to be in denial. Strange.

 Im not in denial, I would like to get to the bottom of this as well, im only minutes away from them in the next two days, and i'm going to vouch for them either, remember I have 2 units on preorder so im at a lose here.

look you don't have to trust me, but what have you got to lose here if they are a scam, did you preorder?

I got nothing to lose if they turn out to be a scam (they most likely are scammers) but others would if they were to fall for the scam. So I would like to prevent other people from getting scammed by warning the community. It doesn't matter if I preordered or not. But the answer is no I did not preorder from them. Only someone who doesn't know anything about mining would be so.

So what's their bundall address? You said you would be at the bundall store so obviously you would where it is located.

And what's their store number on 55 Cavill Ave? You said you would give them a visit but there's many many stores there. So you would need a store number to know where they are.

As they stated before shown above. So i'm going past there for a look

What exactly would you be look for? Are you expecting some big sign out the front to say PAYONIX - Australian ASIC company or something?

http://goo.gl/maps/A0Zq1

If you're not a shill/sockpuppet then you're a idiot.

P.S Adam Nettlefold only lives about 10mins drive from Bundall so there's a chance you'll be able to see him in person. He got a rat face so you won't miss it.

http://adamjnettlefold.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/an-crook-3.jpg

Adam is the guy getting a haircut

http://adamjnettlefold.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/adam-nettlefold1.jpg

Also his brothers in crime. #2 and #4

Look im not the enemy here. not here to pick arguments or battles with people. The only thing im saying is while im there in the next 2 days im going to have a look and see whats going on, but im not to vouch for them.

give me a hard time as you will but there is no harm at looking

Yes I will keep an eye out for the rat face

also his twitter @nettas83.

No worries mate. Enjoy your wild goose chase and good luck trying to track down his store with those phony addresses.

Just want to state again that:

The scammers email is in the website whois.
The email links to a known QLD scammer who does these types of things.
The lies so far and lack of proof.

Surely by now you would've already contacted your banks and what not. 1+1+1+1+1+1 equals 6 does it not?

Can't wait to see what happens on Monday. On their supposedly open day (again) and video demo ::)

Anyhow really hope the best for you if you're actually a legit customer of theirs.

Yes - but the point is they will need to have 3 KnC's to do that.

Anyway, it's one step in the process of proving themselves.

If they are unable to do this, then of course it simply does mean they don't have the hardware.
If they ARE able to do this, then it means they have X TH/s of mining hardware.

It's a simple step to either succeed and thus mean it could be possible, or fail and thus it clearly is a scam
They said they've had hardware mining for a week, so there is no excuse for not being able to leave it mining for a few hours to prove itself.
Of course they could have done this already, so they are only shooting themselves in the foot not doing it ... or they can't ...

i.e. they need to provide a demo of 1.x TH/s mining on Monday (provable 1.x TH/s)

The company papers includes the address of one of them, and google street view shows an out of focus but guessable number plate (yep google made a mistake) of the white 4WD in the driveway.
Since he's the 100% shareholder of payonix, and payonix is who has received the money, this makes him accountable for it.
Here's the blurred by google image :)
http://198.245.60.111/Pix/RNCar.jpg

It's nice to see people are actively preventing scams by collaborating.  ;)

By the way do you guys think Cointerra will make the December deadline?

there is a good effort of people helping others fall into the trap. me silly enough I have pre orders, and I know plasmoske thinks I might be part of it or on a wild goose chase, but i'm right there on sunday and Monday. and if I cant locate them or get to see this demo the I will report to the authorities on Monday, even if I do see some sort of demo, chances are slim going by their actions i'm still not going to call it legit, and they will need answer lots of questions if by chance there is a an actual person to talk to

lets see what they say about refunds. they did state they are paypal verified so they can refund via paypal as well

They can't afford to refuse refunds at this stage, and there is one confirmed person who got back a refund. Admittedly it was in dollars when they paid in BTC but it's better than "sorry we're bankrupt (all your funds are belong to us)".

So... it was rednecks? Not Asians? Go figure.

I don't know why you would risk it. In my view they haven't provided sufficient proof to even bother testing the company. Not to mention it is extremely obvious that it is a scam.

That person was me.. I pre-ordered 2 x 500GH/s units with BTC - 27 BTC total via Coinbase. Was told all payments were turned to cash on receipt of payment and thus bank transfer was the only option. That cash figure could be turned back to BTC but I would have had to wait 2-3 days extra. Purchase of one unit was with another investor, I was unable to wait that timeframe.
The best way I can think of this - I sold 27 of my BTC for $247 each.

Thanks very much to all for the research!  It's great to know that the Bitcoin community protects its own. 

This was a clear scam from the off. Offering multiple product lines in a very short timeframe, using cutting edge tech. On top of which this had been achieved with private funding by very generous investment that didn't want a piece of the action itself. The icing is that they have, between them, two of them developed multiple product lines involving a scrypt miner. There's a reason the KnC alt-currency miner hasn't had more time dedicated to it. There's been none, and that's with around 40 people and a large network of partners. It makes zero sense to offer multiple product lines. If one fails, the entire company is in jeopardy. You keep it simple and create one at a time. It's a huge red flag for scams, but scammers always prey on telling people what they think people want to hear, and not what's achievable.

Timeline, product lines, price points, claimed specifications based on simulated results, teams illustrious backgrounds, they are all red flags.

Instead look at the terms and conditions, the payment methods, and the questionable marketing methods. Scams and scandolous marketers want you to purchase hastily, and will pressure you to do so. They aren't interested in selling to people who make decisions based upon pragmatic reasoning.

These guys realised Paypal is popular, but apparently their account is limited, they are working on resolving that issue, but are about to sell out of their current stock until February, act now!

"We only have three left, and are experiencing delays for our openday". B*llocks.

The other amusing point is the sharing of linked in profiles you cannot see unless you are in their network. Did they forget?

Fools rush in, keep a level head and ask questions.

Bizarrely the scammers make better websites than the real companies these days!

Has the payonix.com website mysteriously gone offline on the day of their live video demo?

(update) it's back up now

LULZ

Predictable

Hey,

I'm back..  (Sushi is back!)

With very limited info given from Payonix, I diverted my trips to other ASIC Companies for now.

You can call me "Shill" but there is a company that is about to release IN-STOCK ASIC Miners and NO PREORDER.  This one, I'm planning to run the 24-hour burn test from other countries to show their miners are real.  Please Stay Tuned!

Oh, if you friend request me on our Facebook, as soon as they are to release the miners for sale, I'll message all of you guys!

Here you can see I'm not associated in AU or China or Hong Kong.

Page 6 of https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=330665.0

I'm serious about providing a bit more solid Scam/Myth Buster Public Service

I am schedule to speak with Andrew later in the afternoon.  (He didn't sound Asian.  He sounded PURE WHITE YOUNG GUY)

EDIT: Forget this section....
[I would say, wait for their Demo today or some updates from a few guys who are planning to be there in person.  At this point, they are not taking any more orders. So, we can't lose any more NEW MONEY into this if it wasn't legit.  So let's just wait and see! I would love to go there to verify today, but I'm still a bit away from AU as I have another appointment to go visit the factory in China.]

Moved to the 20th...  I see...  If they offer REFUND and the chance to Re-Order on the 20th, TAKE THE REFUND NOW, and once it's confirmed, REORDER!!!!!

If the demo is on the 20th, I guess I could be there... but covering the cost on my own could be a bit of concern knowing their schedule changes so often... (self funding to go viisit Payonix is out of the question for now  >:( )

Any Donation?  I will go there if it was paid for!  I'll take the award ticket  ;D

So, since they said they've had hardware for a week mining and one of their team is a mining expert who has been mining for about 2 years and made over a $1mil doing that, and they now have missed 4 demos, and managed to get something of the order of $1mil in pre-paid funds, (and don't forget the fake linked in image) I'd like offer to post the minor extra details I've got of the 100% owner of payonix - Robert Nettlefold - that some probably already know, but in case anyone in QLD didn't know and wanted to start the ball rolling to press charges before they run with the money.

Just an FYI - it's not hard to get this information (from ASIC) you just need to pay about $10 or $20

If anyone would like this, say so and I'll post it here (for free of course - I didn't pay for it) - but I imagine most people could know already anyway.

/me checks the size of the boot of his car

How many people got confirmed refunds?

Sure

I've got an e-mail saying I have a refund coming my way. Didn't ask for one  ???

I'm guessing it'll take a day or 2 before it shows up on the credit card due to the way banks work  ::)

Maybe if they refund everyone then no one can make a claim against them, but in the meantime they've gotten BTC and refunded $AUD and with the price hike they've made a fortune.

ROBERT NETTLEFOLD
21 Riverwalk Avenue, ROBINA QLD 4226
DOB: 26/05/1978, MELBOURNE, VIC
(He's also listed in the document as owner of all the shares)

Hmm ... there is another thing they may be doing ... to profit from this ... but I wont give them any idea by mentioning it in case they are more stupid than they have been so far and don't realise it.

Kano, if you're thinking what I think you're thinking,.. yeah it seems plausible as a few of us have come to the same conclusion. Its quiet elegant when you think about it, initial heavy risk, but removes all risk later on, and you just end up with some grumbly people that can't really go after you for much once they've got the money back.

Its just a bummer, as I wanted to invest some of my capital into bitcoins a week or so ago, but held off in the attempt to buy as many of these units as possible, and thus I've missed out on this brilliant climb of BTC :(

Sadly, I don;'t think they are the only crew pulling this sort of thing either :(  There will probably be others.

At his point it would seem that the action available would be to contact police and provide the details we have here.
The important point being that they have claimed to pre-sell almost 250 of them and that equates to close to $1mil - that puts it of interest regarding to fraud charges - even if they return the money at the price given to them.
I guess it's rare for fraud cases to actually be brought to the attention of police so early, but no doubt it's good to be able to catch the people before they run with the money.

Having been north for the last 10 days, am sad to see this has progressed as expected whilst I was away. Glad I did not waist my time and money to check them out.

If they do have a product, which I doubt, I can be there in half a day, to confirm.

I would not do this at my expense though. If they where legit over-nighting a unit to kano is a no brainer.

At the moment I say scam, but offer my time to confirm otherwise (at there expense).

And now they changed the blog again:

i.e. for some unknown reason they managed to get the device to China in the 24 hours since they last posted about this and they have already resolved the problems and suddenly the test is now yet another 7 days later again.

SERIOUSLY! IF ANYONE HAS MONEY WITH THEM CONTACT THE POLICE AND PRESS CHARGES OF FRAUD - THEY CAN BE CHARGED WITH FRAUD EVEN IF THEY RETURN YOUR MONEY

What if it were BFL?

haha

wow theyve sent their units back and and they are already expected to return within one week from china ?

that sounds like the guy at my work who called in sick to get a spine-operation and said that he would be back at work in two days (real story)

Unlike Payonix ...

BFL always planned to deliver their hardware and eventually have.
Their claims about the hardware design and functionality were valid and at most? stages it did exist when they said they actually had hardware.
Their ability to deliver hardware was fatally incompetent (be it BFL or their suppliers, but it makes no difference in the delay, it is of course BFL's fault)
They may also have made claims of dates that they knew were false (one of either incompetence of false statements)

The Payonix issue is quite clearly different.
This company is making claims of producing and having hardware that they clearly did not produce and do not have.
That is called fraud and in this case is very simple to prove - if they don't have the hardware they said they already had and had mining, then, yep that's fraud.
Even if they send you your money back, it's still a clear cut case of fraud since they have stated they already have it and that it already works.

do they have a refund page or something ?

+1 Yeah it's called an "arbitrage fraud" where you promise something in order to get a free loan for currency speculation and then you refund the money after the currency rises and pocket the difference.

Last Friday i received a refund by payonix through paypal, however the refund was pending up until today. At precisley 00.00, the refund failed and i received an email advising me to contact Robert Nettlefold.....4 minutes later i receive another refund through paypal by Robert Nettlfold, which clears and is completed immediately ....wtf   ???   glad to get my money back  ;D

My refund came through just today. So the good news is I'm now safely out.

Were can you visit them as they are not at any of the locations they claim to be.

You would think by now they would come clean a say yep you found us out and move on to try and avoid any legal actions.

I really would like to know these guys are scam or not? any queenslanders went to have a look on there address? Anyone really got there money back? any info would be great as I am looking to order there onix 1Ths devices.

I have read all these threads but when i check the thread about Kncminers they are also started like these, given only a little to no information no right address etc, but at the end they do come up with the product.

I was there on Monday as I was in area and tried to locate them at 55 Cavill Ave. But not there, no shop front or office went to all the business there and centre management also confirmed that they have no payonix business within 55 cavill ave. I also took pics of the area as well.

But I did get a refund for my order before I requested it.

It would be good if they were legit to be able equipment here without the astronomical delivery fees from overseas.

Hi Guys,

Firstly, just want to say thanks to the forum because after the delayed live streams I googled Payonix and this was the first result.

I pre-ordered a unit, it's my first dabble in bitcoin mining, obviously not a good starting experience into bitcoin, I've requested a refund, hoping to receive it, hoping there's a good chance because if they have no product and it's just some kind of bitcoin ponzi then at least they would have trippled our money for themselves, you'd think they'd be nice enough to pay back their investors and keep the 2 mill+ for themselves.

As MonsterCro said, it was good to find an Australian supplier which is why I went with them, looks like I'll have to go overseas.

After this experience but it's seriously tempting me to get my team together and try to build something myself, I've developed custom PCB's for embedded linux hardware/software before, we had a custom AVR32 board running embedded linux which we used in the gaming business, need to look into the current ASIC hardware architecture in more detail and have another 8 hours in the day but(already too much on my plate).

Thanks again guys for keeping bitcoin honest.

Cheers,

Smithy

I got my refund during the week.  Paid via Paypal, put in a paypal claim to get my money back.  First email from paypal says they were unable to withdraw the funds from the sellers account and to contact Robert Nettlefold at sales@payonix.com for a refund.

Got a follow up email from paypal to say they had successfully processed my claim and closed the call.  This was a bit confusing, I spoke to paypal who said that although the seller's account didn't have sufficient funds for the refund, but they are a paypal verified seller paypal can forcibly retrieve funds (still not 100% sure how this works).  Received an email from Andrew Thomas apologizing, explaining the difficulties they are having due to internet forum talk, and that my refund would be processed (Still adamant that their customers will be happy when they receive their miners).  A few days later I had the refund in my account (not sure if the refund was Andrew Thomas issuing the refund, or paypal doing their thing).

100% a scam,
Queensland Australia has been a hub for scammers for many years and if it sounds to good to be true (and based in Queensland) then most probably a scam.

This has been send out from payonix in the morning, still no demo, 100% sure its a scam

Hello dears Customers, we like to inform we have in hands 5 of each products for mining Bitcoin.

You can see all products on www.payonix.com

We have in stock 5 unit of each product so run fast, make and complete your order.

Your product order will complete and delivered withing 24-48 hours (1-2 business day).

Thanks
Andrew
https://payonix.com/

Another mail, 1 minute ago, they with a link to the pictures, they should be so stupid to post a link with knc miners and butterflylabs  as we can clearly see it written, something big going on here.

Hello dears Customers, we like to inform we have in hands 5 of each products for mining Bitcoin.

You can see all products on www.payonix.com and some images at: http://postimg.org/image/ssvl3m75l/

We have in stock 5 unit of each product so run fast, make and complete your order.

Your product order will complete and delivered withing 24-48 hours (1-2 business day).

Thanks
Andrew
https://payonix.com/

PS: Mails are coming from this address  Payonix <payonix@yopmail.com>
Its a disposable email address.

Those pics totally match the description of the unit in the blog and the poor pics that were briefly posted and removed.NOT.

And wasn't the chips supposed to be 250ghs each. So why would you post a pic of the 250gh unit with 4 chips.

I wonder what will be the excuse for this?

I'm sure they can't delay there demo unit as I got an email saying they have kept 2 units for themselves that they are mining with.

I'm sure they can post pics of the units if they have them in hand now instead of ripping them off the internet

Their explanation for those pics are their all accounts been hacked by someone. Anyway the next even date is
"We have moved the event to Wednesday 27th November 2013 @ 1pm AEST due to technical issues with our units. Read more of the update."
If they delay that then we can send this mob to the AFP.

I received exactly the same two emails from Payonix.  They are not written by a native English speaker.  I believe this is a different person posing as "Andrew Thomas".  The previous person posing as "Andrew Thomas" had perfect English. 

Note: the emails are signed as "Andrew" with no surname specified, so I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that this is "Andrew Thomas".  Perhaps they forgot that they were meant to pose as "Justin"?


Or perhaps Payonix has two people called Andrew. 

The images (http://postimg.org/image/ssvl3m75l/) posing as Payonix hardware are actually:
1) 250 GH/s unit - this is a KnCMiner case with four KnCMiner ASICs shoddily "photoshopped" on.  They are facing the wrong direction, and two of them even overlap the front face of the case!
2) 1 TH/s unit - this is a Butterfly Labs 500 GH/s "mini-rig".  Payonix haven't even bothered to remove the Butterfly labs logo on the front.
3) To the right of the mini-rig - is that an Avalon?  I have no idea why this image is there, as it has no description.
4) 1 Th/s unit "testing status OK" - a Butterfly Labs mini-rig with the case off.  I'm not sure if this is the earlier FPGA mini-rig or the later ASIC.

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9707/vwbq.jpg

The real question is if its a different person then how come he got our details? how come that person knows that we are registered with payonix or we are looking for asic miners

Anyway we will know that payonix are real or not in the coming Wednesday.

There could be two people operating Payonix.

What you mean two people operating? why they wanna post a kncminer or butterflylabs miner pics to spoil reputation?

Payonix is a scam, and I believe there are two people operating it.

That is, we have encountered two different people so far based on their proficiency at written English.

http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/reportascam

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/1/3941768/new-chips-mine-bitcoins-50-times-faster

http://www.wakabayashifund.com/ExecSumm/AskUbu/AskUbu_Executive_Summary.pdf

someone living in Queensland Australia have to report this to local police

I live about an hour and a half away from Robina/Bundall just south of the border in NSW.

I'm waiting on my refund which I was told was processed on friday, if I don't receive my refund in the next couple of days I'll be actively pursuing it and will also be happy to help others if a local presence is required.  With or without the police, I don't care   It'll take a long time for the police to get onto it, there are quicker ways to get your money.

Smithy

I have reported it to the following:

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/report-a-consumer-scam.htm

http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/reportascam

others have to do the same
I'm not from queensland and cannot report to local police

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1465856/000114420411065650/v239200_ex10-1.htm

You might as well follow the Jeff Stone lead as well.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Hong-Kong-Alliance-Fund-Limited-Wakabayashi-Fund-LLC/internet/Hong-Kong-Alliance-Fund-Limited-Wakabayashi-Fund-LLC-Jeff-Stone-Janette-Diller-Ston-943241

The "phishing" email is totally a misdirection. 100% most likely done on purpose by the scammers themselves.

Now watch as when the unit arrives, they will announce some server issues due to it being hacked recently.

More delays. More stalling. More scamming :P

Interesting, according to payonix.com I never placed 2 orders for 500 gh/s units.
Lucky I exported these 2 weeks ago as proof :)

Hi Keena,

Curious, Did you pay for both units upfront? are they denying you a refund?

Rgds

Smithy

Good call.  Always more excuses for delays...

Ironically, that may prove to be the most honest statement from their camp. We may be proven wrong as to whom we think they are.

More about Wakabayashi Fund: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/04/15/us-usa-crime-sweethearts-idUSTRE63E2SV20100415

We all will know tomorrow as they promised to do a demo on tomorrow, if they are saying any excuses this time, we can mark it as a scam and report to all the authorities. Hope andrew also reading this and he dont want us to go to that extend.

to everyone who paid these scmmers any money best thing to report it and do as instructed.  
Personally I haven't paid these scammers a cent but thought they need to be reported. It would be best if someone who's actually paid them to lodge this complaint.

this is a reply I got from Brisbane OFT (Office Of Fair Trading).

Question I still have is...

Do we have anyone who requested the refund who had not receive the refund from Payonix?

Based on what we are seeing, at least I can't say, "GET READY TO BUY" but more of "BE VERY CAREFUL & DO YOUR DILIGENCE" before commit to buy in on this pre-order.

One thing Andrew told me is he and his company are not concerned about this forum and the negativities showing up on Google Search as the possible scam because they have the units and they have a strong investors supporting it to include some Hero/Sr.member of this forum not being publicly making any comments on the forum about Payonix.

I sent a few e-mails to Andrews for over a week and I received 0 reply as of now.  I'll call them today and see where they are at with the demo on the 27th.

No answer at the phone number on the website.  The answering machine with non-human voice.  At least in the past, it was a real person's greeting but it's not anymore.

Eh? What did you expect him to say? "We are worried they'll expose us for the scam we are" ? Deny, deflect, postpone, distract.

Their 5th promised demo ... they've missed 4 already.

At an address that people have already checked and there is nothing there.

Seriously - just forget them.

Easier said than done when they have your money.  I'm still waiting on a refund that was "put through last week".

I wouldn't waist time waiting, the longer you wait the better chances they've got in disappearing.

I'd do it yesterday if I were you.

I hear you, but my first priority is getting my money, Government Departments to be frank are shit at that, It'll take weeks before they start the investigation and they'll take a month off over Christmas.  I've been in business for a while and I've collected money from people owing tens of thousands before.  I'll use my own methods first (Don't ask), Police/Small Claims Court next, Fair trading/toothless tigers last.

Smithy

you could do both at the same time

Today is the we are having technical difficulties day and we need to postpone our working demo that was working fine before we decided to do a working live demo day due to public demand

Let's see what happens today

 8) 8) today they'll be in The Bahamas  8) 8)

4 more hours mates and we know.

UPDATE:  Just got my refund and a bit more.  I was one of the unlucky ones initially because I was stupid enough to pay via Bank Deposit instead of paypal.  They told me they paid the refund last friday(BS) then yesterday I gave them 24 hours before I had someone personally pick up my money (family member, ex hells angels), they told me this morning that the deposit they did on Friday got sent back and that they would immediately pay in BTC, and as of now I just received my refund in BTC.

If anyone is still out of pocket and hasn't had any luck with their refunds let me know, happy to provide collection services.


Smithy

i.e. they made a margin profit on you ...

You gave them say $4k - they bought 10 bitcoins at say $400 - they paid you back at ? $1k per BTC? 4 BTC?
They made ... 6BTC profit from you.

They've probably trippled the money no doubt, not just from me but from everyone.

Shit happens. 

Lets see what happens at 1pm.

Technical difficulties; stand by as we have rescheduled our demonstration to (never) next Monday.

Live event in Surfers Paradise, QLD updated.

MOVED TO THURSDAY NOVEMBER 28TH 2013 @ 3:30PM QLD TIME.

We are waiting on delivery of our demo's today from China. They landed yesterday evening and were to be delivered to us this morning. We are still waiting for the delivery truck. We will therefore have to postpone until tomorrow.

We will be hosting the event tomorrow at 3:30pm at the Hilton Surfers Paradise in a private room to cater for more attendees. Gather in the Lobby and please arrive no later than 3:15pm. There will not be a representative in the Lobby after 3:15pm AEST. We welcome as many people to attend as possible.

This is event will NOT change dates so if you are planning to purchase in person, please get there tomorrow.

Time to get excited!

- Payonix Technologies Pty Ltd

if anyone goes to this so called demo, please bring video cameras and video the KNC miner in action.
and if they seriously do a demo, get them to open the case and show you what's inside.  get close ups of circuit boards, chips and what ever you can.
and especially their faces.

But I don't expect any demo, but just in case, please do above.
If I lived in QLD I would be there to rip them apart.

I just rang the Hilton to confirm the booking.

They cant tell me the bookings for tomorrow, only today....

Feel free anyone else to call them first thing tomorrow.

6 Orchid Ave, Surfers Paradise QLD 4217
(07) 5680 8000

Hahaha well that can't host at 55 Cavill Ave because they don't exist there as I was there not to long ago and spoke with centre management and they confirmed Payonix does not reside at any shop at 55 Cavill Ave.

Now they are booking a room at the Hilton as they have no real office. This just keeps getting better and better.

No, it's called fraud and you can go to jail for doing it.

Of course its fraud, good luck getting them in jail but for it(and they know it, which is why they keep doing it).

Hilton confirms no booking for Payonix today

I'm sure they had technical difficulties in booking the Hilton. So another postponement I gather

They're waiting for the refreshments for the event to come from china.

No they forgot to send the power cable so the demo will need to be delayed

Still no answer at Payonix phone number.  Generic machine message only...

I was hoping they would actually produce some units   >:(

these guys are professional scammers, they have taken peoples bitcoins and have already double/tripled their value.

they aren't going to the bahamas, they're buying their own island.

I wander if anyone actually headed to the hotel?

If I wasn't actually at a meeting today I'd drive up there and take a look, then again, I wouldn't want to waste half a day to visit the Hilton for 2 minutes and back again.

Still another 2hrs 40minutes until they have to make up another excuse ... or pretend it happened and fake stories about it ... or have pictures showing off disguised KnC hardware :)

QLD time is GMT+10

They will have technical difficulties  with livestream and won't be available but they will claim the demo went excellent and the so called people that showed up were impressed they sold out again but they won't be able to post any pics onto there blog as the camera that they were using ran out of battery power or their SD card become corrupt.

I hope they will do the demo, but, it's not looking good.  I'm keep calling them for over a week and I can't get anyone to answer through out the day and early evening.

Voicemail message changed from actual human to the default cheap machine voice...

Waiting on the live stream and see what we get to see! 

They cancelled all orders and will not be releasing any units. No Surprise there. All info on there blog. It was there last wild card/excuse was cancellation.I suppose they had to cancel the Hilton that wasn't even booked as confirmed by the staff at Hilton

Righto, so what's the plan from here, who's keen for some civil court action?  They had our money for over a month offering a non existent product, increased it by 3-4 times (depending on when people brought in) then returned our money and said thanks for funding their bitcoin investment.

If enough people are interested I'll make some inquires about a class action suit.


Smithy

Count me In

Count me in - I paid via paypal and got a full cash refund after they held my money for around a month.

A friend of mine pre-ordered 2 of the non-existent 500GH/s units and paid in bitcoin, which was 27 bitcoin at the time.  They refunded him 2 weeks later as a cash deposit into his bank account totalling $6400 when at this time the 27 bitcoins were worth $14,000 (approx $500/btc).  The 27 bitcoins at this moment are worth around $30,000 - the $6400 refund, means payonix defrauded approx $24,000 but not refunding in the same method of payment as it was purchased with.  Arbitrage fraud at its best

*edit - it was $6400 because he received some re-imbursements via the 'affiliate program' which was taken out of the refund they issued, so he wasn't refunded 2 x $3799

Did anyone else purchase in Bitcoin?

Sushi Review Result:

NO PROOF OF ACTUAL ASIC PROJECT - CONTACT POLICE IF YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED YOUR REFUND

Company Exist?  YES
Website Exist? YES (But some contents had been deleted as of 11/28/2013)
Proof of ASIC Provided: NEVER (Multiple On-Site Appointments but all CANCELED by Andrew)
Physical Address: Company DOES NOT EXIST at the published address
Phone# Published: YES
Answer Phone: NOT ANY MORE (USED TO BE STAFFED)
Delayed Delivery: YES (At least 5 occasions of promises)
Prior Business Engagement History: Possible signs of possible fraud in the past
Deceptive Sale: YES (Repeated Advertisement of Non-Existent Live Product Demos and Showcase)


P.S
I know Kano, you guys will tell me told you so...  We were holding out on Just in Case Senario.  (If the business was legit)

Thanks Sushi/Andrew.

Ti's not just about the refunds, it's about the money they made out of us tripling our investment and taking the profits.

Business name:  Payonix
Status:  Registered
Registration date:  17/11/2013
Renewal date:  17/11/2014
Cancelled date:   
Cancellation under review:   
Address for service of documents:  55 Cavill Ave Surfers Paradise QLD 4217
Principal place of business:  Surfers Paradise QLD 4217
Holder(s) details: 
Holder Name:  Andrew Steven Thomas

Holder Type:  Person

ABN:  83 035 534 935
 
Debtor representative(s):  not applicable
Notified successor(s):  not applicable
Regulator:  Australian Securities and Investments Commission
 
Former State/Territory registration details 
Former identifier:   
Former State/Territory: 


Looks like some recent changes made to the business according to the date and names

The google image of the house (I mentioned before) that shows a blurred but guessable number plate.

Step 1) click on the google maps link
https://maps.google.com.au/maps?safe=off&ie=UTF-8&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=-28.078153,153.381305&cbp=13,233.0,0,0,0&cbll=-28.078049,153.381461&q=21+Riverwalk+Avenue,+ROBINA+QLD+4226&ei=9yuXUsr-CaS5iAfF6oCoCA&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQxB0wAA

Step 2) zoom in (click) on the back of the white car twice

Certainly end is 'AF'

Just an update, I've done some research and I know exactly where Nettfold is(Used an old debt collector trick).  I won't display it publicly here but because I don't want him to jump ship.  PM me and I'll get a group PM convo going or we can setup a private chat somewhere.

Also, I've got all the original ASIC documents here they are for your entertainment:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fg529mfc7k9byvu/2d3730323733343733333.pdf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jodnrbs0l49tnl5/333737323437333236303.pdf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6jms1ctb3yulw5/2d3439393730373138303.pdf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgr8dmdgbc5yyre/2d3232363731363438393.pdf


The original address and shareholder is going to be the legit information because they would have needed to have received the original papers, the subsequent changes to 55 cavil ave, and the Andrew Thomas shareholding are all bullshit (as we already know).  The subsequent changes are all done digitally, and ASIC doesn't manually verify them, hence all changes after are BS.

I'll email a contact at QLD Police tomorrow with all this info and see what they say, obviously the police can pursue charges, particularly when it's at this scale but court proceedings are really the only way to get the money.  With that said it's important that the AFP and QLD Police know about it so the bastards can't leave the country.


Smithy

Has anyone noticed all the blogs have been removed maybe trying to hide any evidence that they claimed to have units in their procession

Google cache that shit

For everyone who is interessted, here are my reports of the google cache and something that I've discovered about their mail contact form:
http://www.mediafire.com/?w3adtao9ovxecam (http://www.mediafire.com/?w3adtao9ovxecam)

Did anyone of you paid an order to payonix by banc transfer?
If yes, did you report the fraud to your banc?

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum, I came here after googling Payonix.

On the 15th of November I purchased a 1TH ASIC miner from Payonix via credit card. I was asked to wire transfer the funds which I declined and apparently paypal processing would take to long so I used my NAB Visa through their payment gateway.

I received an email on the 18th of November.


Attached was a picture https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7hGnTq2qYbcVTJJaEFIUjlYMnlJcUhqTjdObFBRY0NWd2FZ/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7hGnTq2qYbcVTJJaEFIUjlYMnlJcUhqTjdObFBRY0NWd2FZ/edit?usp=sharing) of the payment gateway with the word "refunded".

On the 18th of November, my business partner Paul emailed them to ask why it was cancelled and told them we were looking at getting another 1TH machine on top of the one that was cancelled.

On the 19th I received this email forwarded from Paul;


On the evening of 19th November, I logged into my netbank and noticed that the credit card payment cleared (which meant he had received the money which was meant to be refunded) I started to get a weird feeling about this, so I decided to Google Payonix and found this thread.

After reading the information in this thread, I became apprehensive and lost trust in the company. I called NAB and put a dispute on the transaction.

On the 20th I received a cheeky email from payonix with an invoice to pay, here is that conversation:


I still haven't received my refund and have reported him to ASIC and Scamwatch.

I wish I lived in QLD, so I could confront these guys.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for their help.

I had an interesting conversation with Adam Nettfold/Andrew/whatever he wants to call himself yesterday, THEY randomly contacted me with this(Start at the bottom, it's an email thread)....

Ben,

We will not reveal the maker of the units as we are getting more for our use.

Orders were deleted online as we were hacked and are being extorted. This has been given to the police as well. We have a backup and have refunded everyone.

Best,

Andrew
Co-founder
Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
Skype: payonix

Best,

Andrew
Co-founder
Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
+61 (7) 5641-2441
Skype: payonix
On 2 Dec 2013, at 2:50 pm, XXXXX Smith <sXXXXXXX@XXXXX> wrote:

> Prove it, who was your Chinese manufacturer? Prove you weren't running a scam.
>
> I know the truth.
>
Ben,

Regardless all information will be handed over, including your emails.

We have not made any money off people that is certain and can happily show the police that as well.

Keane accepted his refund. Our lawyer is looking at it to see if we refund or not. If we do, he will get it.

Best,

Andrew

On 2 Dec 2013, at 2:42 pm, XXXXX Smith <sXXXXXXX@XXXXX> wrote:

> Report whoever the fuck you want, it wasn't me, you'd know it was me if it was.  Sound like you got what you deserved.
>
> I got my money, but you still have committed fraud and I've got a pi thats already collected a shitload on you so you can claim and say whatever you want.
>
> Enjoy spending the extra bitcoins you made off people while you can because it won't last.

> On 02/12/2013, at 2:30 PM, Payonix <sales@payonix.com> wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Just so you know we are about to report it to the police. If it was you, own it and apologise.
>>
>> We have refunded clients except 1 who is waiting for legal to contact them. We haven't made a cent off anyone. The products failed so we refunded the funds.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Andrew
>> Co-founder
>> Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
>> +61 (7) 5641-2441
>> Skype: payonix
>>
>> On 2 Dec 2013, at 2:21 pm, XXXXX Smith <sXXXXXXX@XXXXX> wrote:
>>
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> You should do the right thing and pay back all the money you made off my fellow miners money for a product that never existed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/12/2013, at 1:44 PM, Payonix <sales@payonix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> Do you know a Mario Fannuci?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>> Co-founder
>>>> Payonix Texhnologies Pty Ltd
>>>> Skype: payonix

They obviously haven't refunded everyone and if the units were faulty WHY are they purchasing units for themselves???

So many lies, so much BS, BTW just so everyone knows for the record if you want to pay Andrew Thomas(Adam Netffold) a visit/file court notices etc....


https://oevf.aec.gov.au/VerifyEnrolment.aspx
You are enrolled to vote

The details you entered were:
Given names:    ADAM
Family name:    NETTLEFOLD
Street and Locality:    RIVERWALK AVE ROBINA QLD 4226

The electorate you will vote in at each election is listed below:
Federal Division:    MCPHERSON
State District:    MUDGEERABA
Local Government Area:    GOLD COAST CITY
Local Ward/Division:    DIVISION 11



Lesson: Never commit fraud 2 after an election! What an idiot, I'm watching the property to ensure it doesn't suddenly go up for sale or lease.

It's a standard practice for debt collectors to check electoral rolls to find people,  You're not supposed to have them, but people still get hold of them, on top of that, the AEC is nice enough to have an online system like so..


Smithy

Hi critta,

Sorry to hear that you have been scammed by Payonix.  We believe they are operating an arbitrage-type scam where they take your money, invest it in bitcoin, wait for bitcoin price rise, sell the bitcoin for profit, then return your original money.  It works even better if the victim paid them in bitcoin.  Your money gets tied up for a few weeks, but you get it back in the end (hopefully).  In the meantime you have suffered opportunity loss (you lost the use of your money during that time), and they have profited using your money.

Interesting. So originally the business was registeFraud ito the riverwalk robina adddifficulties under Robert nettlefold who had a broadbeach address anyway and Adams aec address is the riverwalk robina address but Payonix claimed that they had no involvement with Adam nettlefold but they used his address.

Also they still were selling these units and taking orders well after they claimed they had sold out. Sound like nothing dodgy goingon there. And they still can't state the unit they are at 55 cavill ave

And regardless they claimed that had a working test unit that had so many technical difficulties went it went to live demo you still would of posted pics of it anyway to re assure customers you were legit.

But anyway the evidence is to strong against them. Fraud it is.

There is a possibility to report the SCAM to westpac, where payonix have one ore more bank accounts:
http://www.westpac.com.au/security/fraud-and-scams/reporting-scams/ (http://www.westpac.com.au/security/fraud-and-scams/reporting-scams/)

If you did pay trough wire transfer to a westpac account, report your scam details to hoax@westpac.com.au

Anyone got the money back yet? anyone has still an order with them?

Anyone see their website has been changed from hardware supply to hosted mining contract

Yeah they've obviously brought legit hardware with all the coin they've ripped from us and are now using it to make money through hosting.

Adam Nettfold is a piece of shit.

No. Still got no refund! I did buy a mining contract from them, but they didn't answer any mail!  >:(
They've used an anonymous mailbox for communication over their mailcontact form and I was completely surprised as I did see a mail from me and other payonix customers inside this fake mailbox!!! (Have a look to the google cache document that I've posted above!)

I've reported the fraud to my bank and also to the westpac Security Team.

Aha they will relase a new website!

Sounds very trustworthy! >:(

what a bunch of nasty people,someone seriously needs to pay them a visit

Who knows what they are doing, I guess we will know that in the coming few days.

I paid via Paypal and eventually got my money back.

About a week after filing my dispute for refund I got this email from paypal:

Hello <My Name Here>,

The refund sent by Robert Nettlefold (sales@payonix.com) did not clear from the sender's bank. You have not received funds for this payment in your PayPal account.

Please contact Robert Nettlefold regarding this refund.

-----------------------------------
Refund details:
-----------------------------------

Amount: $3,799.00 AUD
Sender: Robert Nettlefold
Sender's email: sales@payonix.com
Transaction ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Transaction date: 18 Nov 2013


Sincerely,

PayPal


Shortly after that email PayPal sent me an email telling me they had retrieved the funds and I should expect them in my account in the next few days, and it eventually came through.

Not sure if it was actually refunded by 'Andrew Thomas/Robert Nettleford' or forcibly refunded by Paypal.

Same as HF's ToS.

Just wondering if everyone got their money back off these clowns?

finally got everything back, I paid 24.1 btc for hosted mining 2 days before the final 'live event'. I actually flew up to surfers for it and stood in the Hilton foyer by myself like a stooge. Next day asked for a refund, 6 weeks and 95 emails later I got it all back (minus 0.14 btc in 'processing fees'). Bit by bit they paid as they were speculating on the markets, there were at least 2 people replying as 'Andrew', one politely keeping the business facade and the other a cocky speculator who overused the word "buddy". They had the coins over the whole crash and basically used us as a free short service. Anyway just glad the ordeal is over.

Hi Everyone,

I sent 7k to Payonix a few months back and I was promised delivery this month. I was reviewing forums and came across this. My heart sank and now I feel sick.

Can anyone give any advice on what to do? Sadly I paid via bank transfer and not paypal.

Thanks,

Darren

Option A: Forget about your money and move on.

Option B: Spend more money to track these clowns and get your money back (maybe)

Option C: Forget about your money, move on and next time be cautious.

Hi Darren,

Sorry to hear your story, bitcoin is a bit of a wild west.

They haven't gone anywhere, they're still physically located on the Gold Coast, nettfold is who you're after, if you're in Australia then you can handle it a few ways...

- file a claim in the small claims court at nettfolds address.
- Also report the matter to fair trading qld, this is not the first time this guy has fucked people over.

- or do what I did, these guys aren't hard crims, their white collar nerds, 7k is a decent bounty to collect, find a guy that'll collect for you, I threatened to have a few friends visit and kept on their butt about it and had my money back quick, they weren't happy with how I handled it, but scum like them deserve nothing less.  They're experts at dodging the law but I bet they can't dodge a fist.

Good luck.

Smithy

if you paid by bank wire then cant you sort it out with the bank, get the bank to send them a letter?

Bank Transfers are final.

That's why scammers use it.

The bank won't help, you need to do as I suggested, I paid via bank transfer back in November and got my funds back

Hey everyone first post :)
Just a heads up these guys are also running two other sites cryptcloudex.com and ezibit.com.au

Is anyone still having trouble with getting a refund? Would be happy to make a trip to their office and enforce payment, no upfront cost and would work out cheaper if done as a group. Leeches like this are actively holding back bitcoin.