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Author Topic: Open Source Avalon Gen2 55nm Board  (Read 35216 times)
ngzhang
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November 12, 2013, 05:45:25 PM
 #41


Ngzhang, are you guys going to produce your own modules, or are you going to abandon the backwards compatibility idea?

We will release a few (very few) Avalon Gen2 Mini prototype on our shop in 1-2 days, this prototype will NOT mass production.

http://avalon-asics.com/shop/

(not put up yet)

It's basically based on our open-sourced design, 96 chips running at 1V/1.5GH, 144G overall speed. most of the parts are the same with Gen1 mini.

I think this is a start, it's easy to build upgrade modules for Gen1 machines.

But we will NOT produce compatible modules our self in large number, a lot of people can do it faster I think.

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November 12, 2013, 06:42:34 PM
 #42


Ngzhang, are you guys going to produce your own modules, or are you going to abandon the backwards compatibility idea?

We will release a few (very few) Avalon Gen2 Mini prototype on our shop in 1-2 days, this prototype will NOT mass production.

http://avalon-asics.com/shop/

(not put up yet)

It's basically based on our open-sourced design, 96 chips running at 1V/1.5GH, 144G overall speed. most of the parts are the same with Gen1 mini.

I think this is a start, it's easy to build upgrade modules for Gen1 machines.

But we will NOT produce compatible modules our self in large number, a lot of people can do it faster I think.

Avalon still owes me 18 btc from trade-ins.   And Batch #3 was a total scam, it has paid 46 out of  103 btc I had paid.


I suggest you and Yifu rectify these issues you have created first.
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November 12, 2013, 07:26:37 PM
 #43

It's sure nice to see Avalon helping with open source projects based on their chips.... nevermind that they've utterly screwed everyone in batch 3, anyone tied to chip orders, and everyone who sent hardware in for tradins.

Don't get caught up in the game and have a nice day!
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November 12, 2013, 08:02:50 PM
 #44


Ngzhang, are you guys going to produce your own modules, or are you going to abandon the backwards compatibility idea?

We will release a few (very few) Avalon Gen2 Mini prototype on our shop in 1-2 days, this prototype will NOT mass production.

http://avalon-asics.com/shop/

(not put up yet)

It's basically based on our open-sourced design, 96 chips running at 1V/1.5GH, 144G overall speed. most of the parts are the same with Gen1 mini.

I think this is a start, it's easy to build upgrade modules for Gen1 machines.

But we will NOT produce compatible modules our self in large number, a lot of people can do it faster I think.
Are u gonna publish that as opensource to ? after you have your sales completed i would like to start my own but to little knowledge on this moment

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Lucko
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November 12, 2013, 08:21:19 PM
 #45


Ngzhang, are you guys going to produce your own modules, or are you going to abandon the backwards compatibility idea?

We will release a few (very few) Avalon Gen2 Mini prototype on our shop in 1-2 days, this prototype will NOT mass production.

http://avalon-asics.com/shop/

(not put up yet)

It's basically based on our open-sourced design, 96 chips running at 1V/1.5GH, 144G overall speed. most of the parts are the same with Gen1 mini.

I think this is a start, it's easy to build upgrade modules for Gen1 machines.

But we will NOT produce compatible modules our self in large number, a lot of people can do it faster I think.
The main problem at the moment is that we think that new program for FPGA is necessary for new modules to work. Is this right? Also is it strong enough? Since you plan to do that it is probably possible and if we don't need to worry about writing program for FPGA that helps a lot... I did not looked at all cerfuly but I could not see code for it on https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref

Can you tell more on this product that is coming? Will it worked if you put only one in and other Gen1 modules will still work? Any changes to FPGA needed? Anyway I would be interested in one and plans for it...

Please enlarge the board in order to make room for mounting holes in all four corners (like the Klondike board).  That way the boards could be mounted properly in an open-air case:


This is more or less biased on that board so make it compatible with it is not a problem. I can't see a problem making this work. But making it just to make it is not best way to go... So if someone is ready to commit to have them made would be nice since there are a lot of signals that community will not buy anything from Avalon.
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November 12, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
 #46

Nice project. My concern it that Avalon will let us down with chip supply again like happened to the Klondike project. Does anyone have any information on there chip sales/schedule?

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November 12, 2013, 09:08:23 PM
 #47

Nice project. My concern it that Avalon will let us down with chip supply again like happened to the Klondike project. Does anyone have any information on there chip sales/schedule?


You can order online Avalon chips A3256-Q48 if thats what you mean..otherwise i do not get it ;-)..and that's always a option 

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November 12, 2013, 09:33:03 PM
 #48

Create a blade which can be used to replace a current one in an avalon and sell it at a price which leaves a 20-30% earning margin to the buyer and you can probably sell six thousands of such blades in a few hours...

That's the impossible part. Everybody has a different idea of what the price should be to "leave 20-30% earning margin". And if you want to satisfy most potential buyers, the price has to be such that the vendor has to sell at loss.

Look: a Avalon 55nm chip at 1.5Gh/s delivered about 2 weeks from today would probably not mine more than 0.060-0.070 BTC during its entire lifetime (most people would agree). If you want to leave 20-30% earning margin, it means the vendor would have to sell at less than 0.046-0.058 BTC per chip. But the chip alone costs 0.060 BTC from Bitsyncom...
erk
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November 12, 2013, 09:43:46 PM
 #49

Create a blade which can be used to replace a current one in an avalon and sell it at a price which leaves a 20-30% earning margin to the buyer and you can probably sell six thousands of such blades in a few hours...

That's the impossible part. Everybody has a different idea of what the price should be to "leave 20-30% earning margin". And if you want to satisfy most potential buyers, the price has to be such that the vendor has to sell at loss.

Look: a Avalon 55nm chip at 1.5Gh/s delivered about 2 weeks from today would probably not mine more than 0.060-0.070 BTC during its entire lifetime (most people would agree). If you want to leave 20-30% earning margin, it means the vendor would have to sell at less than 0.046-0.058 BTC per chip. But the chip alone costs 0.060 BTC from Bitsyncom...
The chips would have to be under $10 to be useful. This pricing in BTC is bad, it's should be priced in fiat and you can pay in BTC using Bitpay which works out the exchange rate on the spot. If chip delivery takes more than 2 weeks, then it's probably not worth taking the risk and simply keeping your BTC as it's generally rising in value.



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November 12, 2013, 09:45:04 PM
 #50

Nice board form. If you are looking at hole spacing for heatsinks, can I suggest you use the ones for a half brick DC/DC convertor? The spacing is 1.9" x 2.0", and because they're standardized they're easy to get anywhere so availability isn't a problem.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/VHS-95/102-1489-ND/1016697
They're also very cheap for what you get.

By personal views, A3255 chip is cheap, if over clock too much will go with a huge increase of peripheral (DCDC, heat dissipation, etc)cost, then it's unworthy. just add a few chips and run under lower voltage. In other words, this is an art of balancing.
While I wish this were the case, it's not really true given the current price of BTC. At 12BTC/reel, it's US$8.40 per chip or $5.6/GH/s. Just for chips that's untenable, as you're at the same price per GH/s as the Bitfury chips which are more efficient and have a multitude of designs available already. I like the idea, but you need to revisit your pricing.

Yes but this is 10 chips because he has 10 chips... And 24W power usage. So yes only bit more then 50% at the moment but there is also efficiently that you need to think about. And overheating. I have a Chili board. And the biggest problem is power supply. It is on the limit and it needs additional cooling or the board slows down by 20%... So because you have save some $ on parts you need now additional cooling(fan and heatsinks) on power supply and that cost more then stronger power supply and uses more power since you need a fan and it runs in less effective part of operational range... Not to talk about lost hashes... So some parts are better if they are stronger...
I wouldn't say that, the power supply in the Chili actually runs fine with no airflow or heatsink at its nominal voltage and current (1V, ~90-100A) though it does get warm. The board just auto-overclocks in order to increase the hashrate, and the BFL can actually pull almost 20A each if they are really pushed. The RevB chips are actually even more power hungry than the first gen ones, which exacerbates the problem. The board doesn't slow down by 20% without extra cooling on the power supply, it just can't be overclocked as far.

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November 12, 2013, 09:54:46 PM
 #51

Create a blade which can be used to replace a current one in an avalon and sell it at a price which leaves a 20-30% earning margin to the buyer and you can probably sell six thousands of such blades in a few hours...

That's the impossible part. Everybody has a different idea of what the price should be to "leave 20-30% earning margin". And if you want to satisfy most potential buyers, the price has to be such that the vendor has to sell at loss.

Look: a Avalon 55nm chip at 1.5Gh/s delivered about 2 weeks from today would probably not mine more than 0.060-0.070 BTC during its entire lifetime (most people would agree). If you want to leave 20-30% earning margin, it means the vendor would have to sell at less than 0.046-0.058 BTC per chip. But the chip alone costs 0.060 BTC from Bitsyncom...
The chips would have to be under $10 to be useful. This pricing in BTC is bad, it's should be priced in fiat and you can pay in BTC using Bitpay which works out the exchange rate on the spot. If chip delivery takes more than 2 weeks, then it's probably not worth taking the risk and simply keeping your BTC as it's generally rising in value.




I see avalon chips that are cheaper then 10$

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November 12, 2013, 10:23:59 PM
 #52

I see avalon chips that are cheaper then 10$

Probably Avalon 110nm. We are talking about 55nm chips here.
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November 12, 2013, 10:26:56 PM
 #53

I see avalon chips that are cheaper then 10$

Probably Avalon 110nm. We are talking about 55nm chips here.

12BTC for a reel of 500. At $350/BTC, that's $8.40 per chip.
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November 13, 2013, 12:11:24 AM
 #54

Create a blade which can be used to replace a current one in an avalon and sell it at a price which leaves a 20-30% earning margin to the buyer and you can probably sell six thousands of such blades in a few hours...

That's the impossible part. Everybody has a different idea of what the price should be to "leave 20-30% earning margin". And if you want to satisfy most potential buyers, the price has to be such that the vendor has to sell at loss.

Look: a Avalon 55nm chip at 1.5Gh/s delivered about 2 weeks from today would probably not mine more than 0.060-0.070 BTC during its entire lifetime (most people would agree). If you want to leave 20-30% earning margin, it means the vendor would have to sell at less than 0.046-0.058 BTC per chip. But the chip alone costs 0.060 BTC from Bitsyncom...
Am I missing something Avalon's website says 500 gen2 for 12BTC.
So 12/500 = .024 BTC per chip?
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November 13, 2013, 05:50:42 AM
 #55

Nice project. My concern it that Avalon will let us down with chip supply again like happened to the Klondike project. Does anyone have any information on there chip sales/schedule?


I made an order for 500 chips in Sunday.
Yesterday Fedex called me that sending is here and I have to go to the customs

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tips : 12DNdacCtUZ99qcP74FwchaCPzeDL9Voff
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November 13, 2013, 06:14:11 AM
 #56

Create a blade which can be used to replace a current one in an avalon and sell it at a price which leaves a 20-30% earning margin to the buyer and you can probably sell six thousands of such blades in a few hours...

That's the impossible part. Everybody has a different idea of what the price should be to "leave 20-30% earning margin". And if you want to satisfy most potential buyers, the price has to be such that the vendor has to sell at loss.

Look: a Avalon 55nm chip at 1.5Gh/s delivered about 2 weeks from today would probably not mine more than 0.060-0.070 BTC during its entire lifetime (most people would agree). If you want to leave 20-30% earning margin, it means the vendor would have to sell at less than 0.046-0.058 BTC per chip. But the chip alone costs 0.060 BTC from Bitsyncom...
Am I missing something Avalon's website says 500 gen2 for 12BTC.
So 12/500 = .024 BTC per chip?


I didn't realize these chips have built-in Wifi Internet and come ready to daisy-chain to each other and power directly by 110V/220V AC outlet all while self-cooling to below 50 °C.  I am ordering 50,000 of these magical chips right away!
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November 13, 2013, 12:23:51 PM
 #57

Create a blade which can be used to replace a current one in an avalon and sell it at a price which leaves a 20-30% earning margin to the buyer and you can probably sell six thousands of such blades in a few hours...

That's the impossible part. Everybody has a different idea of what the price should be to "leave 20-30% earning margin". And if you want to satisfy most potential buyers, the price has to be such that the vendor has to sell at loss.

Look: a Avalon 55nm chip at 1.5Gh/s delivered about 2 weeks from today would probably not mine more than 0.060-0.070 BTC during its entire lifetime (most people would agree). If you want to leave 20-30% earning margin, it means the vendor would have to sell at less than 0.046-0.058 BTC per chip. But the chip alone costs 0.060 BTC from Bitsyncom...
Am I missing something Avalon's website says 500 gen2 for 12BTC.
So 12/500 = .024 BTC per chip?


I didn't realize these chips have built-in Wifi Internet and come ready to daisy-chain to each other and power directly by 110V/220V AC outlet all while self-cooling to below 50 °C.  I am ordering 50,000 of these magical chips right away!

what are you smoking? Obviously the chips need to be part of a system, just like the gen1 chips and chips made by every other manufacturer.

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461 also selling 6" M-F-M PCIe splitters and PCIe-PCIe
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November 13, 2013, 12:44:42 PM
 #58

He is making a point that you need a board and that increase costs...
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November 13, 2013, 03:13:44 PM
 #59


Ngzhang, are you guys going to produce your own modules, or are you going to abandon the backwards compatibility idea?

We will release a few (very few) Avalon Gen2 Mini prototype on our shop in 1-2 days, this prototype will NOT mass production.

http://avalon-asics.com/shop/

(not put up yet)

It's basically based on our open-sourced design, 96 chips running at 1V/1.5GH, 144G overall speed. most of the parts are the same with Gen1 mini.

I think this is a start, it's easy to build upgrade modules for Gen1 machines.

But we will NOT produce compatible modules our self in large number, a lot of people can do it faster I think.
ngzhang is a scammer. If you are not familiar with this guy, please see his trusting feedback. If you have been hurt by him, give him a negative feedback, it only spends you 20 seconds.


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QualitySeeds
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November 13, 2013, 03:27:40 PM
 #60

I see avalon chips that are cheaper then 10$

Probably Avalon 110nm. We are talking about 55nm chips here.

Can't we make a pcb-board for 110nm ?...And i got the datasheet from the chip would somebody take a look at that ? to confirm if its the 110nm chip

As expected, their 2nd generation chips will be created using a 55nm process and utilize the same packaging as their first generation 110nm chips, with small changes to padding but the same communications protocol. Although this constrained their design options, it will enable full backward compatibility with PCBs developed for their first generation chips

http://thegenesisblock.com/tag/pcb/

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